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EVE has a problem with its reputation. What can or should be done?

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Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#161 - 2014-07-15 02:50:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldiiee
You put 100 people in a game with no rules and all of them start out trying to build and explore, one of them fails at this miserably (Or is miserable doing it) and he decides to scam or steal from two other players, after seeing this behavior goes relatively unpunished those two players decide to scam or steal from 4 other players, the cycle goes on and on eventually taking over the whole community, but luckily 200 more players join each month giving the original and new predators fresh meat to prey on.

It's not that CCP has given the Asylum keys to the patients, well maybe it is exactly like that, but that was probably not the original intent. But it is what we have now, and new players are more and more likely to be victims since the demographic is prone to unbalance in the side of predators and not to the builders/explorers.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#162 - 2014-07-15 02:52:25 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
You see that as a problem OP, I see it as EVE working as intended, weeding out the weak minded "I am a hero!!!" type gamers who wouldn't like EVE anyway, even beofre they try (and fail at) the game. That's most of the gaming world, hell, it's most of humanity.



Yep. CCP doesn't need their money.

Anyone seen a legit subscriber count in a while? No? Didn't CCP brag, errr, publish that number every year?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#163 - 2014-07-15 02:55:51 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:

It's not that CCP has given the Asylum keys to the patients, well maybe it is exactly like that, but that was probably not the original intent. But it is what we have now, and new players are more and more likely to be victims since the demographic is prone to unbalance in the side of predators and not to the builders/explorers.


I love how the concept of game balance literally isn't even on the table for you. Like if the game isn't tipping the scales in favor of "the bulders" aka your own playstyle then EVE is dying.

This is the game for the predators. But not because the scales are tipped in our favor, but because unlike most other games we are allowed to exist in the first place. So yeah, there are a lot of us.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#164 - 2014-07-15 02:57:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Guttripper wrote:
One aspect I "fear" (eventually altering the game, if not outright cancelling it) would be someone already mentally unstable gravitating to play Eve and diving head first into all the "evilness" allowed by the game. Instead of them realizing it is but a game, nope, this lunatic would take it to the extremes.

Where people do have mental health issues that mean they can't or won't be able to make the best decisions in a game, isn't the primary responsibility to support those people, with those closest to them IRL, where the issues exist?

For the largest part of society that suffer from mental health issues, they do have caring friends and relatives to support them.

On the flip side, there will always be a small number of people who go unnoticed or untreated because they don't have a good network around them.

However, even risk managing that from a game companies perspective, everything can't be wrapped in cotton wool to account for that possibility. It's not a game companies responsibility to manage the RL problems of people. Yet, CCP does react IRL when they find out about RL issues associated with mental anguish and/or mental health issues. I think CCP (and probably many other game companies) should be applauded for what they do to care for the community that play their game. Many companies just keep taking the cash regardless.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#165 - 2014-07-15 02:59:24 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
You see that as a problem OP, I see it as EVE working as intended, weeding out the weak minded "I am a hero!!!" type gamers who wouldn't like EVE anyway, even beofre they try (and fail at) the game. That's most of the gaming world, hell, it's most of humanity.



Yep. CCP doesn't need their money.

Anyone seen a legit subscriber count in a while? No? Didn't CCP brag, errr, publish that number every year?


Well, the wiki entry for EVE says that the subscriber numbers were officially released in December of 2013. So it hasn't been released yet.

Last year was an exception that we heard about early since they hit a nice milestone. But if you think you can interpret silence as being support for your agenda, you are a long way off, Scope.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#166 - 2014-07-15 03:02:50 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:

It's not that CCP has given the Asylum keys to the patients, well maybe it is exactly like that, but that was probably not the original intent. But it is what we have now, and new players are more and more likely to be victims since the demographic is prone to unbalance in the side of predators and not to the builders/explorers.


I love how the concept of game balance literally isn't even on the table for you. Like if the game isn't tipping the scales in favor of "the bulders" aka your own playstyle then EVE is dying.

This is the game for the predators. But not because the scales are tipped in our favor, but because unlike most other games we are allowed to exist in the first place. So yeah, there are a lot of us.

I didn't say that at all. If you show a mode of gameplay that is fiscally rewarding and punitively negligible then players are going to gravitate towards that (fancy way of saying Risk vs Reward) add to that the lack of reward for doing 30 days of building, grinding ... whatever can be taken away by anyone with 5 to 20 friends and an afternoon. It lends to a society of takers, since there is no comparable risk/reward in building (be it personal wealth, structures, ships, communities whathaveyou).

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#167 - 2014-07-15 03:10:03 UTC
And Kaarous Aldurald get rid of the persecution complex, this dynamic does lend itself to balance, if the game gets to many predators and not enough prey, just like in all habitats, the predators die off with no food to eat and the prey repopulates in relative saftey.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#168 - 2014-07-15 03:15:38 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
And Kaarous Aldurald get rid of the persecution complex, this dynamic does lend itself to balance, if the game gets to many predators and not enough prey, just like in all habitats, the predators die off with no food to eat and the prey repopulates in relative saftey.


The person who has posted all about the "society of takers" ruining the game for all the "victims" doesn't get to tell anyone else that they have a persecution complex.

You're quite literally acting one out right now for us.

I mean, if things were in any way what you were describing, where we're over hunting our prey, you'd think we would end up with less ALODs, less afk miners, and less autopiloting freighers. Instead of more. There are so many people out there worth killing that I couldn't even clean out Molden Heath if I had a CONCORD battleship. You guys literally choke the spacelanes in some systems *cough Jita* and you think there are "too many predators"?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
rswfire
#169 - 2014-07-15 03:20:59 UTC
Nathaniel Raynaud wrote:
... pressuring people to change their playstyle is changing gameplay, though. an enormous amount of eve's content is created by the players, and trying to manipulate the way people play space jerk simulator 2k14 for the greater good is just silly


Isn't that exactly what many of the "griefers" do to miners and others in this game? Isn't that pretty much a stated goal for many of them?

At any rate, in response to the op, I don't think Eve has as wide of a reputation as many think. I knew nothing at all about Eve when I started, and whenever I mentioned Eve to the people I know, they have never even heard of it. And it's not for lack of gaming. I have hundreds of games on Steam and plenty of friends on there. Eve is fortunate that it still remains on the fringes because it still has an opportunity to redeem itself.

That said, we all play this game because we're getting something out of it. I think it's fair to say Eve is a unique community and even though I dislike a lot of the things that some people do in it, I think it is a better game for allowing it. I think in some ways it does have a very realistic parallel to real life, but it's not well-balanced. Many people argue Eve advertises itself with slogans like "Be the villain" but they always neglect to point out those exact same ads also say "Be the hero."

We just need more of the latter; then, I feel, Eve would have more interesting things going for it.

About Firesworn Nation .|. FB .|. G+ .|. Steam
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#170 - 2014-07-15 03:28:25 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:
And Kaarous Aldurald get rid of the persecution complex, this dynamic does lend itself to balance, if the game gets to many predators and not enough prey, just like in all habitats, the predators die off with no food to eat and the prey repopulates in relative saftey.


The person who has posted all about the "society of takers" ruining the game for all the "victims" doesn't get to tell anyone else that they have a persecution complex.

You're quite literally acting one out right now for us.

I mean, if things were in any way what you were describing, where we're over hunting our prey, you'd think we would end up with less ALODs, less afk miners, and less autopiloting freighers. Instead of more. There are so many people out there worth killing that I couldn't even clean out Molden Heath if I had a CONCORD battleship. You guys literally choke the spacelanes in some systems *cough Jita* and you think there are "too many predators"?

I was simply describing an Eco System and how that can become unbalanced, I also stated how it would rebalance itself. I never said there were too many gankers or that there were too many carebears, just that if a Risk/Reward activity is unbalanced it would attract more players to that activity.

You make a lot of assumptions off a simple mathematical theory.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#171 - 2014-07-15 03:31:36 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:

You make a lot of assumptions off a simple mathematical theory.


More like I've heard more than enough snide suggestions hidden behind "concern" in my lifetime.

Especially when you predicate it with the assumption that the first guy who scams or steals is only because he sucks at everything else. Your opinion isn't even well hidden.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#172 - 2014-07-15 03:34:08 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:

You make a lot of assumptions off a simple mathematical theory.


More like I've heard more than enough snide suggestions hidden behind "concern" in my lifetime.

Especially when you predicate it with the assumption that the first guy who scams or steals is only because he sucks at everything else. Your opinion isn't even well hidden.

Read;
''one of them fails at this miserably (Or is miserable doing it) ''

It's the only thing your being asked to do right now, so focus and read all the words.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#173 - 2014-07-15 03:36:10 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
You see that as a problem OP, I see it as EVE working as intended, weeding out the weak minded "I am a hero!!!" type gamers who wouldn't like EVE anyway, even beofre they try (and fail at) the game. That's most of the gaming world, hell, it's most of humanity.



Yep. CCP doesn't need their money.

Anyone seen a legit subscriber count in a while? No? Didn't CCP brag, errr, publish that number every year?


Well, the wiki entry for EVE says that the subscriber numbers were officially released in December of 2013. So it hasn't been released yet.

Last year was an exception that we heard about early since they hit a nice milestone. But if you think you can interpret silence as being support for your agenda, you are a long way off, Scope.


Thanks! Here's looking forward to December 2014, if the doors are still open.

I guess the number usually released with the CSM election was just overlooked.

But who cares? Subscriber numbers mean nothing to content, right? It's those pesky login's creating content.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#174 - 2014-07-15 03:39:07 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:

Thanks! Here's looking forward to December 2014, if the doors are still open.


You heard it here first, folks. EVE dead by 2015 or earlier.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#175 - 2014-07-15 03:40:58 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:

Thanks! Here's looking forward to December 2014, if the doors are still open.

I guess the number usually released with the CSM election was just overlooked.

But who cares? Subscriber numbers mean nothing to content, right? It's those pesky login's creating content.



I don't know about you guys, but im convinced. Lets all hold hands and jump feet first into the biomass grinder together.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#176 - 2014-07-15 03:45:45 UTC
If Eve dies, then life will go on...

...at least for most of us.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#177 - 2014-07-15 04:06:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
You see that as a problem OP, I see it as EVE working as intended, weeding out the weak minded "I am a hero!!!" type gamers who wouldn't like EVE anyway, even beofre they try (and fail at) the game. That's most of the gaming world, hell, it's most of humanity.



Yep. CCP doesn't need their money.

Anyone seen a legit subscriber count in a while? No? Didn't CCP brag, errr, publish that number every year?



CCP never needed 'their' money, they need money from people who would actually like EVE. CCP could do a better job at reaching out to such people, probably at prisons and biker bars.
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#178 - 2014-07-15 04:15:53 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
CCP never needed 'their' money, they need money from people who would actually like EVE. CCP could do a better job at reaching out to such people, probably at prisons and biker bars.

In hindsight, I wonder what kind of game Eve would be today if the original ambiance and intended lore stayed with the game instead of being phased out. That is, the transportation and usage of drugs in high sec space, finding "prostitutes", and other aspects found in the old Chronicles brought forth into the game. But instead, we now have a warning label on the opening screen, the dark and seedy side of the game is basically removed, and CCP keeps attempting to dumb the game down to attract a lower and lower denominator since things like industry and new player experiences are just too rough for newbies now-a-days.
Lady Areola Fappington
#179 - 2014-07-15 04:49:59 UTC
Guttripper wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
CCP never needed 'their' money, they need money from people who would actually like EVE. CCP could do a better job at reaching out to such people, probably at prisons and biker bars.

In hindsight, I wonder what kind of game Eve would be today if the original ambiance and intended lore stayed with the game instead of being phased out. That is, the transportation and usage of drugs in high sec space, finding "prostitutes", and other aspects found in the old Chronicles brought forth into the game. But instead, we now have a warning label on the opening screen, the dark and seedy side of the game is basically removed, and CCP keeps attempting to dumb the game down to attract a lower and lower denominator since things like industry and new player experiences are just too rough for newbies now-a-days.



I want my transparent Gallente dresses back plz.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#180 - 2014-07-15 04:59:02 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:
And Kaarous Aldurald get rid of the persecution complex, this dynamic does lend itself to balance, if the game gets to many predators and not enough prey, just like in all habitats, the predators die off with no food to eat and the prey repopulates in relative saftey.


The person who has posted all about the "society of takers" ruining the game for all the "victims" doesn't get to tell anyone else that they have a persecution complex.

You're quite literally acting one out right now for us.

I mean, if things were in any way what you were describing, where we're over hunting our prey, you'd think we would end up with less ALODs, less afk miners, and less autopiloting freighers. Instead of more. There are so many people out there worth killing that I couldn't even clean out Molden Heath if I had a CONCORD battleship. You guys literally choke the spacelanes in some systems *cough Jita* and you think there are "too many predators"?

I was simply describing an Eco System and how that can become unbalanced, I also stated how it would rebalance itself. I never said there were too many gankers or that there were too many carebears, just that if a Risk/Reward activity is unbalanced it would attract more players to that activity.

You make a lot of assumptions off a simple mathematical theory.


Thing is, the ecosystem doesn't actually rebalance itself. What happens is we get dozens of threads like this one & CCP goes off & makes a really stupid change to the game. After that the casual bad guys leave or go AFK ratting or whatever, & the career bad guys adapt so efficiently that more threads are posted. If you think this sounds familiar, it is.

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