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EVE has a problem with its reputation. What can or should be done?

First post
Author
Terbulus
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#401 - 2014-07-18 22:43:01 UTC
Sorry Im late to the party

I just wanted to say HTFU

Ok, gotta go, bye.
Serene Repose
#402 - 2014-07-19 05:50:51 UTC
Funny. Nobody's saying the comments aren't true. They're just ridiculing the reaction. This is sociopathic behavior. Say what you will. I'm one of those "been here a long time" folks, and I will say an "element" has invaded us - the drunk mentioned becoming their defacto leader by default rather than talent, and because mentally he's their age.

I encounter this same opinion stated by the OP in all the games I play, or beta test. You can grunt like a pig about it. (You can pretend that's roaring like a lion...lions of course will smirk at the notion.) You can say it's the internet, and sociopaths have a right to it just as much as do saints. I'll say, and this is with CCP's able assistance, EVE is an ideal environment for a sociopath. There's nothing quite like destructive behavior with no retribution.

I know a lot of people who used to play have left years ago. They left because what CCP has done, and failed to do, would create a climate making EVE desireable to an element with whom they wished no contact. Here these many years later, that has come to be. The elephant in the room is the big So what? It's CCP's game. Let 'em do what they want with it. If you don't like it, go some place else...yeah. It was never intended to be anything in particular. SO WHAT if it's become like it is now? Yeah.

But, that being said, it's still true what the OP says. It's still true nobody's denying that. They're just ridiculing the reaction. This of course is what the sociopath does.
P

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#403 - 2014-07-19 06:08:16 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
Funny. Nobody's saying the comments aren't true. They're just ridiculing the reaction.


I'm doing both. Several of the comments are invalid as they were written by people who had recently been banned from EVE Online.

Sour grapes, and all that.

Most of the comments listed in the OP are untrue, when you get right down to it.

The rest of them are people who really are better off not playing EVE. If you're the kind of gamer who needs your hand held, EVE is not for you.



Quote:

But, that being said, it's still true what the OP says. It's still true nobody's denying that. They're just ridiculing the reaction. This of course is what the sociopath does.
P


People are allowed to be mean on the internet? When did this happen? I demand to have the feelings of complete strangers coddled this instant!

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Christina Project
Screaming Head in a Box.
#404 - 2014-07-19 09:21:29 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Hi Snakes,

Just wanted to say that your avatar is a decent doppelgänger of Mr. Jackson. Good job!

Snakes-On-A-Plane wrote:

HS Ganking is not really PVP though, at least not in the sense that it includes the connotations we normally associate with PVP.
It's sort of equivocating.
I mean it's technically player vs player. But it is dissimilar from what most people consider pvp in a number of ways:


  • It has no significant expectation of risk, or unforeseen consequences.
"Expectation of risk" and "unforseen consequences" is not relevant in this case. The HS ganker is the EVE equivalent of a kamikaze pilot. Destruction of the ship and even a pod kill aren't unforseen because the ganker has made the uncharacteristic choice to die as a result of PVP. I think you have to appreciate the opponent who's willing to engage in something that will 100% kill his ship and likely his pod.

You can argue that everyone has clones and infinite lives, but that's true of people fighting in nullsec, too. That's what the game is. The ganker does have risk and consequences. Your statement just marginalizes his choices because the ganker accepts grave consequences as a prerequisite to his style of play.


Quote:
  • It doesn't require a great deal of skill.
  • There is a lower barrier of skill (player skill and SP) to the activity, sure. So does tackling in null or rookie logistics piloting. It's not to say that these "low skill" professions don't have a lot of impact to activities in EVE.

    One could almost argue that it's "efficient" content creation. These guys don't have to fly T3s or caps to have a big impact.


    Quote:
  • It's almost completely safe from the intrusion of other players.
  • This is a choice made by other PVPers in hisec. What is true is that the network of folks looking to prevent ganks and protect non-combat pilots in highsec are often unwilling to go kamikaze or take risks with their ships and pods in order to foil ganks. A lot of folks are more interested in getting free kills when gankers turn flashy.. which has no real impact on the act of ganking itself.

    This is also true because the overwhelming majority of non-combat pilots are often not thankful, don't even communicate in Local, reject conversations, and don't compensate their would-be protectors with a single ISK.

    Ganking is safe from intrusion because:
    1) Ganking is typically a social activity. There is strength in numbers
    2) The social activity of ganking is put in opposition against what is typically solo activity: anti-ganking, hauling, mining


    Quote:
  • It's just a numbers game. You can work out everything you need to be successful as a HS ganker on a spreadsheet.


  • I would say that this statement is not correct with ECM, ECCM involved.
    Way too well written response for some scrub who doesn't
    even have experience.

    Nicely done.

    [i]"Don't look into another human's bowl to see how much he has ... ... look into his bowl to see if he has enough !" - Sol[/i]

    Gel Musana
    LOL a Sticky Situation
    #405 - 2014-07-19 09:25:43 UTC
    It's about the sandbox. the butterfly effect. No rule is what we need, even concord and gate protections should be removed. Instead create a few systems for noobs, kind of nursing systems where people can learn the game and then move into the wild. From this perspective it would make sense to extend null sec to the whole universe.

    Ideology  s-h-i-t  list https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/Gel%20Musana

    Scipio Artelius
    The Vendunari
    End of Life
    #406 - 2014-07-19 09:35:28 UTC
    Serene Repose wrote:
    Funny. Nobody's saying the comments aren't true.

    I'm happy enough to say the comments are wrong.

    The reputation of EvE is a selection filter.

    It's a good thing, not bad. There is no problem (I wrote it earlier in the thread too).
    Coffee Rocks
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #407 - 2014-07-19 10:21:19 UTC
    Sibyyl wrote:

    I think a lot of people have problems with how the EVE community says things on the forum. People should get over that and look at what the community is saying.


    Oh, I understand what my detractors intend to say just fine. It just boggles my mind that they honestly think that they are right, or that it should continue to be this way. This is the same minority that throws a fit anytime someone mentions moving the "HTFU" line in any forum.

    Keep in mind that I left other MMO's over the years because those games catered too far in the direction of "Soft-innocent-cuddly-kitten-oooohh" crowd (aka SICKOs). No one that plays EVE wants an I-win button or easy-mode, **** that. Seriously, think about that - if you've seen someone with a toon older than 6 months, they aren't here because they are trying to ruin your game with all their evil mining and carebearing. They are here because they found something they like. I love that EVE is frickin' hard and that I'm constantly employing economics and military strategy in my day-to-day duties. I love that I have to stay on my toes in the metagame. Hell, I even love the times I 'kick back and relax' by doing some clickfest-PI or mining (and you call yourself a sadist - you folks have nothing on me).

    But, we also need to stop acting like we can't even have the conversation about the HTFU line and the NPE. Everyone I know IRL plays MMOs. None of them will play EVE. They've tried - they'd wanted to play with me. But, at the end of the day, they didn't want to spend $15/month to come join in the MMO-version of a YouTube video comments section. You can sit back in your cloud of weird smug and tell those people they weren't "hard" enough to play EVE, and they'll say "cool" and pay another company to play something where they don't have to deal with you. Furthermore, you can tell all these newbies you keep ganking to "Go BCK to WOw" and, well, they will. I'd rather we got rid of the ones screaming for everyone to 'HTFU' and keep the ones they keep pushing away. At least the latter will have something new to say.

    P.S. - Sibyyl, I quoted you but ended up speaking to the whole room - I'm not directing this at you lol ;)
    RAIN Arthie
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #408 - 2014-07-19 10:26:47 UTC
    http://themittani.com/content/traffic-control-newbie-zone

    The above website will answer all questions. I am anti goon however I agree with this message.
    Valhalla Jack
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #409 - 2014-07-20 01:45:04 UTC
    As a new(ish) player I would like to provide my point of view. I have no RL friends who play EVE, my in game experience has thus far been mostly solo. I am a hard working individual and spend less than 5 hours per week online on average. I have played other MMO's, sometimes with friends, and sometimes solo.

    The thing that puts me off is the mindless grind to level up. I never had much interest in obtaining the newest "shiny" or showing off the newest armor. What really interests me in MMO's is the other players, the other people. You see, playing most MMO's and then trying EVE I have noticed something I feel to be profound. In your standard friendly MMO, every player, grinding their levels, buying their shiny, is exactly the same. Sure you meet some interesting peeps to chat with, but their in-game self is the same as you, the same as the next guy. EVE does not follow this trend.

    Sure, EVE is hard. There is without a doubt a tremendous learning curve. But that is what really forges an individual experience unique to JUST YOU, and in turn allows you to meet some absolutely amazing and original characters, in game and RL, that keeps you interested.

    I was hesitant to try it. I heard and read all the reviews. What attracted me in the first place was the perceived lack of protection, the true sandbox. I was prepared to hate it. I don't.

    EVE is doing something right. The trick is getting noobies like me to appreciate the game for what it really is: not a chore, not a job, not a grind, but an entire universe of alternate reality allowing you, the RL person, to be whatever you want and whoever you want without the consequences that RL sometimes throws back in your face.

    SO I guess what I'm saying is, it's what makes EVE different than the other MMO's that keeps this universe special.
    Remiel Pollard
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #410 - 2014-07-20 03:36:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
    Serene Repose wrote:
    This is sociopathic behavior.


    The opinions of armchair psychologists are never valid, anywhere, ever. Do you know why?

    Because instead of trying to have a discussion, you fling diagnoses around as invectives because some people hurt your feelings and you don't know how else to rationalise it other than to assume they must be mentally disturbed, as if that's a blanket bad thing. People like you don't just make EVE a worse place, you make the whole world a worse place.

    "Oh he's doing this bad thing so he must be a sociopath" = perpetuates the stigma that sociopathy is a bad thing.

    "Oh he has this bad trait so he must be autistic" = perpetuates the stigma that autism is a bad thing.

    You are perpetuating stigmas about mental illness that make it seem like the mentally ill are bad people by virtue of being mentally ill. People like you make life unnecessarily harder for the mentally ill as a result. This makes you a bad person by virtue of being an idiot.

    “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

    Gallowmere Rorschach
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #411 - 2014-07-20 03:38:17 UTC
    Remiel Pollard wrote:
    Serene Repose wrote:
    This is sociopathic behavior.


    The opinions of armchair psychologists are never valid, anywhere, ever. Do you know why?

    Because instead of trying to have a discussion, you fling diagnoses around as invectives because some people hurt your feelings and you don't know how else to rationalise it other than to assume they must be mentally disturbed, as if that's a blanket bad thing. People like you don't just make EVE a worse place, you make the whole world a worse place.

    Those memes about angry teenagers spring to mind.
    Kaarous Aldurald
    Black Hydra Consortium.
    #412 - 2014-07-20 03:38:58 UTC
    Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
    Remiel Pollard wrote:
    Serene Repose wrote:
    This is sociopathic behavior.


    The opinions of armchair psychologists are never valid, anywhere, ever. Do you know why?

    Because instead of trying to have a discussion, you fling diagnoses around as invectives because some people hurt your feelings and you don't know how else to rationalise it other than to assume they must be mentally disturbed, as if that's a blanket bad thing. People like you don't just make EVE a worse place, you make the whole world a worse place.

    Those memes about angry teenagers spring to mind.


    Sharing is caring, so cough up a few of them.

    "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

    One of ours, ten of theirs.

    Best Meltdown Ever.

    Remiel Pollard
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #413 - 2014-07-20 03:40:09 UTC
    Updated my post above with further clarification.

    “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104