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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1121 - 2014-07-02 13:43:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Lenn Elei wrote:
In High Sec, that would mean that when someone ganks a ship, he couldn't simply abandon the wreck and let anyone, including that shiny neutral Orca waiting a few km away, loot it as he would immediately become suspect! I think this would had lot of fun ^^ and hopefully some fights!
AFAIK this is already the case, suicide ganked ship wrecks belong to the original pilots of those ships. Anybody else who takes from them is suspect flagged, including the gankers alts, and can be shot at by everyone.

Just what is Eve Uni teaching people these days?
L2Eve.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Paranoid Loyd
#1122 - 2014-07-02 13:44:44 UTC
Lenn Elei wrote:
tl;dr: a player with Criminal Timer shouldn't be able to abandon wreck

I'm not against the ganking aspect of Eve, however, I think that it's far too easy for the killer to abandon the wreck and let a neutral player loot it without any trouble.

You're in the street, someone steal your nice shiny bag and give it to someone else: do you really think the cops or even yourself should only run after the first guy (for 15 minutes) and leave the second with all your stuff? ;)

Therefore, my simple suggestion to limit this without nerfing too much the gankers is to disable or at least delay the possibility of abandoning a wreck when it comes from unauthorized actions?

Put it simple: someone with a criminal timer isn't able to take some actions: warping, docking, etc. and abandoning wrecks should be also forbidden.

In High Sec, that would mean that when someone ganks a ship, he couldn't simply abandon the wreck and let anyone, including that shiny neutral Orca waiting a few km away, loot it as he would immediately become suspect! I think this would had lot of fun ^^ and hopefully some fights!

Of course, that doesn't concern WT/NPC/legal wrecks.


Roll Another one injecting a comment of complete ignorance. This thread is pure comedy.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Lenn Elei
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1123 - 2014-07-02 14:37:23 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
AFAIK this is already the case, suicide ganked ship wrecks belong to the original pilots of those ships. Anybody else who takes from them is suspect flagged, including the gankers alts, and can be shot at by everyone.

Just what is Eve Uni teaching people these days?
L2Eve.


1) I don't see the point of implying Eve Uni in this: I think forum is a place where a relative new player could learn/ask question as well?
2) last time I saw a ship ganked, it seems to me that the wreck of that ship was blue, but I may be wrong in which case, my suggestion is actually pointless and I will remove it, but just to be sure: do you mean that if a player A is ganked by a player B (ie.: killed illegitimately), the wreck A (I don't care of the wreck B) cannot be abandoned by the player B, and in consequence, a player C cannot loot it without being suspect?

Thanks
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1124 - 2014-07-02 14:40:43 UTC
Lenn Elei wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
AFAIK this is already the case, suicide ganked ship wrecks belong to the original pilots of those ships. Anybody else who takes from them is suspect flagged, including the gankers alts, and can be shot at by everyone.

Just what is Eve Uni teaching people these days?
L2Eve.


1) I don't see the point of implying Eve Uni in this: I think forum is a place where a relative new player could learn/ask question as well?
2) last time I saw a ship ganked, it seems to me that the wreck of that ship was blue, but I may be wrong in which case, my suggestion is actually pointless and I will remove it, but just to be sure: do you mean that if a player A is ganked by a player B (ie.: killed illegitimately), the wreck A (I don't care of the wreck B) cannot be abandoned by the player B, and in consequence, a player C cannot loot it without being suspect?

Thanks
Player killed illegally --> wreck belongs to him (and also his corp, I believe).

Anybody else that loots it is suspect flagged.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1125 - 2014-07-02 14:46:56 UTC
Lenn Elei wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
AFAIK this is already the case, suicide ganked ship wrecks belong to the original pilots of those ships. Anybody else who takes from them is suspect flagged, including the gankers alts, and can be shot at by everyone.

Just what is Eve Uni teaching people these days?
L2Eve.


1) I don't see the point of implying Eve Uni in this: I think forum is a place where a relative new player could learn/ask question as well?
2) last time I saw a ship ganked, it seems to me that the wreck of that ship was blue, but I may be wrong in which case, my suggestion is actually pointless and I will remove it, but just to be sure: do you mean that if a player A is ganked by a player B (ie.: killed illegitimately), the wreck A (I don't care of the wreck B) cannot be abandoned by the player B, and in consequence, a player C cannot loot it without being suspect?

Thanks


Oh, I very much do see the point of bringing up EVE Uni. If they can't teach their guys any better than to post the kind of nonsense you just did, they do not recommend themselves highly. They are specifically a teaching alliance after all, that's kind of their shtick.

And yes, by the way, wrecks of the victim from a suicide gank belong to the victim. So your idea could be described in the nicest light as being "half baked", and in a not so nice light as being shockingly pretentious and entitled to try and lecture other players and demand a nerf to a playstyle when you quite clearly have no clue what you're talking about.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Lenn Elei
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1126 - 2014-07-02 14:47:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Lenn Elei
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Player killed illegally --> wreck belongs to him (and also his corp, I believe).

Anybody else that loots it is suspect flagged.


Well, in that case, I'm wrong :s

Thanks for the precision, I'll look better next time!

@Kaarous Aldurald:
for sure, your attitude shows a great sense of teaching! :/ that's why i'm still in Uni: I still have to learn... :)
Lady Areola Fappington
#1127 - 2014-07-02 14:48:41 UTC
Lenn Elei wrote:


1) I don't see the point of implying Eve Uni in this: I think forum is a place where a relative new player could learn/ask question as well?
2) last time I saw a ship ganked, it seems to me that the wreck of that ship was blue, but I may be wrong in which case, my suggestion is actually pointless and I will remove it, but just to be sure: do you mean that if a player A is ganked by a player B (ie.: killed illegitimately), the wreck A (I don't care of the wreck B) cannot be abandoned by the player B, and in consequence, a player C cannot loot it without being suspect?

Thanks



Here's how it goes.

Ganker->gankers ship destroyed->ganker's ship wreck is blue
Gank target->gank target destroyed->gank target ship yellow


The ganker cannot change the "status" of the gankee's ship.

As was said, this is pretty basic stuff, does EUni no longer cover "basic crimewatch mechanics"?

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1128 - 2014-07-02 14:49:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Lenn Elei wrote:
1) I don't see the point of implying Eve Uni in this: I think forum is a place where a relative new player could learn/ask question as well?
If you were a member of any other organisation that teaches newbies, I'd have said basically the same thing.

We're talking about a basic game mechanic here, not some esoteric witchcraft involving the sacrifice of exotic dancers, a C5 wormhole and a favourable moonphase. P
Quote:
2) last time I saw a ship ganked, it seems to me that the wreck of that ship was blue, but I may be wrong in which case, my suggestion is actually pointless and I will remove it, but just to be sure: do you mean that if a player A is ganked by a player B (ie.: killed illegitimately), the wreck A (I don't care of the wreck B) cannot be abandoned by the player B, and in consequence, a player C cannot loot it without being suspect?

Thanks
Illegal kills result in a wreck that is yellow to everybody but the victim (and maybe his corp), if you loot a yellow wreck you go suspect. Ships that have been Concordokkened are blue, you can loot those without going suspect.

TL;DR Normal wreck rules apply.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1129 - 2014-07-02 14:56:41 UTC
Lenn Elei wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Player killed illegally --> wreck belongs to him (and also his corp, I believe).

Anybody else that loots it is suspect flagged.


Well, in that case, I'm wrong :s

Thanks for the precision, I'll look better next time!
You're welcome!

May I also suggest you look up that locked thread i linked before, and repost that idea in this thread?

I don't want this thread to run out of hilarious proposals to laugh at...

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1130 - 2014-07-02 14:57:01 UTC
Lenn Elei wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Player killed illegally --> wreck belongs to him (and also his corp, I believe).

Anybody else that loots it is suspect flagged.


Well, in that case, I'm wrong :s

Thanks for the precision, I'll look better next time!

@Kaarous Aldurald:
for sure, your attitude shows a great sense of teaching! :/ that's why i'm still in Uni: I still have to learn... :)


To me, it's not that you were wrong. Plenty of people can be wrong, and plenty of people have no clue about game mechanics they haven't interacted with. I personally know very little about manufacturing besides how to make pos fuel. To me it's magic, stuff goes in one end, ship comes out the other. That's just fine.

To me, it's the audacity to stand on a soapbox from a position of ignorance, and suggest a nerf no less, about something you don't know anything about. That is what I find unacceptable.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Lenn Elei
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1131 - 2014-07-02 15:20:33 UTC
Well, that will be my last post here I presume... I will always fail to try to apology for posting some suggestion based on my one (very small) eve experience.

I once was flying behind a hauler in a NPC corp. He got ganked right in front of me. I thought he's wreck got blue and I thought the wreck was tractor beamed by an Orca and I thought that Orca never got suspect. I was probably wrong, and it was probably another wreck or maybe it got suspect after all. However, I really thought until now that one can abandon any wrecks, and therefore, my idea looks good to me.

I think you could just say that my idea makes no sense since this is already the way it works. I would have understand faster... moreover, I don't even see why you're talking of a nerf at all as I proposed nothing different from the actual game play according to your comments?!

Just also remember that some people here are not English native, and it's sometime not so easy to understand everything (especially irony).

Thanks to those who take some time to explain how this works. o7
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1132 - 2014-07-02 15:34:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Lenn Elei wrote:
Well, that will be my last post here I presume... I will always fail to try to apology for posting some suggestion based on my one (very small) eve experience.....

.....Thanks to those who take some time to explain how this works. o7
Don't be like that Sad.

As a member of Eve Uni you're assumed to know about basic mechanics, when you don't it becomes a point of discussion and an opportunity to poke fun at Eve Uni for failing to inform you about them.

Large corps and alliances are always targets for making fun of, simply because they're big, and because they're there.

You're actually in the right thread to see how some of the mechanics actually play out, how to use them, and how to counter them.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1133 - 2014-07-02 16:27:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Benny Ohu
Tippia wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Oooh! Comedy option: Scimitar or even Basilisk with all those mids filled with ECM, and the lows with SDAs.
Or, hell, anything with midslots will do, so… Badger II ECM Tayra — nothing like spanking gankers in an indy.P
Locking time on a hauler Evil
Weeeell… ok then. Lol

If you're set on using an indy ship, the procurer's got a reasonable scan res and four mids?

[Procurer, ecm]
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II

'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I

[empty high slot]

Medium Targeting System Subcontroller I
Medium Targeting System Subcontroller I
Medium Targeting System Subcontroller I

Hornet EC-300 x5

e: had a better idea
Conar
My Wormhole Hurts
#1134 - 2014-07-02 17:05:25 UTC
Any negative impact on the ganker can be overcome. Loose a ship, buy a new one with the dropped loot. No loot dropped, work for someone who builds freighters. The Sec status goes to crap, rat a little, that will fix it.

Might as well remove any negative impact. It does nothing.

Buff it or remove it.

To those of you who go on and on about all the extra steps a freighter pilot could do to prevent being blown up.... Lets see a few buffs where the ganker has to stop being lazy instead of just getting a few alt destroyers together. I have no idea what that would look like but it truly is not a balanced system.

Conar 07
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1135 - 2014-07-02 17:22:07 UTC
Conar wrote:
Any negative impact on the ganker can be overcome. Loose a ship, buy a new one with the dropped loot. No loot dropped, work for someone who builds freighters. The Sec status goes to crap, rat a little, that will fix it.

Might as well remove any negative impact. It does nothing.

Buff it or remove it.
Why do people still think gankers should be :punished: ?

The 'negative impacts' you describe are there for one reason only: to reduce ganks. From their 'natural' frequency of ALWAYS.

:punishment: has absolutely nothing to do with it!


Take a freighter. Fit for tank. Fly it 20 jumps in highsec. AFK. On autopilot. Do it 10 times, replacing it if it gets ganked.

How many freighters did you lose? Zero? One? Yeah, something like that.


Now take the same freighter, fit for tank. Fly it 20 jumps through lowsec. AFK. On autopilot. Do it 10 times.

Yeah, you just lost 10 freighters.


Repeat the experiment with a competent freighter pilot and some backup.

Highsec losses: zero.

Lowsec losses: I predict at least 5, depending on the backup.


That's what the current highsec mechanics do. Still think it's 'nothing'?

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#1136 - 2014-07-02 17:22:29 UTC
Last night I finally had the time to go to Kamio, where I sat and watched Code go to play. The Idiocy amongst the mining community there was outstanding.

To watch Code in action is quite relaxing. Now I find ganking miners to be distasteful, but really. Those that are ganked thoroughly deserve it. Mining even when Gankers are in system, just shows the level of stupid in the game.

I knew stupid existed in the game, but not to this extent. I am almost ashamed to call myself a miner. Hats of to you Code, I might not like what you do, But by watching you in action you have earned my respect.



o7
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1137 - 2014-07-02 18:10:56 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Conar wrote:
Any negative impact on the ganker can be overcome. Loose a ship, buy a new one with the dropped loot. No loot dropped, work for someone who builds freighters. The Sec status goes to crap, rat a little, that will fix it.

Might as well remove any negative impact.
Funny how all of the things you listed hold even more true for hauling. I suppose that means that we might as well see ganking as non-existent and in desperate need of a buff.

Quote:
To those of you who go on and on about all the extra steps a freighter pilot could do to prevent being blown up.... Lets see a few buffs where the ganker has to stop being lazy instead of just getting a few alt destroyers together.
You mean like every change to CONCORD and ganking ever? There have been plenty of those, and the gankers have had to adapt. So let's instead see a few buffs so that haulers have to stop being lazy instead of just going AFK and still have ~0% chance of a loss.

Quote:
I have no idea what that would look like but it truly is not a balanced system.
Yes you do. It would look exactly like EVE of today because what you're asking for has already happened more than a dozen times. You're entirely correct, though: it's not a balanced system — ganking is far too difficulty, risky, and consequently rare an occurrence since the the whole system is so massively imbalanced in the haulers' favour.

*Snip* Removed reply to a deleted post. ISD Ezwal.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1138 - 2014-07-02 18:18:34 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:

If you're set on using an indy ship, the procurer's got a reasonable scan res and four mids?

[Procurer, ecm]
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II

'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I

[empty high slot]

Medium Targeting System Subcontroller I
Medium Targeting System Subcontroller I
Medium Targeting System Subcontroller I

Hornet EC-300 x5

e: had a better idea


It just feels wrong if its not a badger hull doing the ECM for some reason.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1139 - 2014-07-02 18:22:16 UTC
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Last night I finally had the time to go to Kamio, where I sat and watched Code go to play. The Idiocy amongst the mining community there was outstanding.

To watch Code in action is quite relaxing. Now I find ganking miners to be distasteful, but really. Those that are ganked thoroughly deserve it. Mining even when Gankers are in system, just shows the level of stupid in the game.

I knew stupid existed in the game, but not to this extent. I am almost ashamed to call myself a miner. Hats of to you Code, I might not like what you do, But by watching you in action you have earned my respect.



o7


When we ran our caldari ice interdiction we killed about 600 macks in two weeks. Despite having a month of warning not a single one fitted a tank.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1140 - 2014-07-02 18:22:19 UTC
sure, if you see it that way