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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#3701 - 2014-09-03 04:34:40 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Yawn, it replicates warp disrupting, *nice catch*


It doesn't do that either. Warp disrupting shuts off a warp drive. Bumping :drumroll: does no such thing.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3702 - 2014-09-03 04:35:13 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Yawn, it replicates warp disrupting, *nice catch*


It doesn't do that either. Warp disrupting shuts off a warp drive. Bumping :drumroll: does no such thing.


hence the word "replicates"
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3703 - 2014-09-03 04:36:23 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Yawn, it replicates warp disrupting, *nice catch*
No, not that either.

Tell me a couple of things:
1. How does warping work? What are the requirements and mechanics involved?
2. How does bumping work? What does it do and how?
3. How does warp scrambling work? What does it do and how?
4. How does warp disruption work? What does it do and how?

Quote:
As for the rest, evading the truth as always.
I really wish you wouldn't. if you instead accepted the truth and stuck to them, you wouldn't have such huge problems right now.


Ya thanks, I'm not here to give class. Suffice to say that the number of dead freighters in uedama strongly, strongly suggests that it is hard/impossible to warp off. I'm not sure why that isn't enough for you.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3704 - 2014-09-03 04:37:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Veers Belvar wrote:
Once the faction police show up...which for gankers is often
…before the gank even starts.

Quote:
And we have had multiple freighter pilots here tell us that they couldn't warp off.
Their incompetence is not indicative of how the game mechanics work. Even a single successful attempt would nullify any and all generalisation of their failures and guess what? We have plenty of successful attempts.

Quote:
And my observations tell me that with competent bumpers it is hard/impossible to do solo. So I'll take that over the word of same gankers....thanks.
Your observations tell you nothing because you have no idea what the pilot was doing or how competent the bumpers were. And you realise that you are not talking to the gankers, but to the freighter pilots here, I hope…

The number of alive freighters in Uedama suggests that it is trivial to avoid, and the dead ones only suggest that too many rely too much on autopilot for their own good.

Quote:
Ya thanks, I'm not here to give class.
Yes you are. I'll give you one more chance to demonstrate even a hint of understanding of the mechanics involved. Without that understanding, anything you say on the topic is based on nothing but fantasy and has no relation to the actual game.

So:
1. How does warping work? What are the requirements and mechanics involved?
2. How does bumping work? What does it do and how?
3. How does warp scrambling work? What does it do and how?
4. How does warp disruption work? What does it do and how?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#3705 - 2014-09-03 04:39:11 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Once the faction police show up...which for gankers is often when CONCORD show up - hence irrelevent/minor.


The faction police are swarming around every HS gate at all times. They don't have to spawn.

Quote:
And we have had multiple freighter pilots here tell us that they couldn't warp off. And my observations tell me that with competent bumpers it is hard/impossible to do solo. So I'll take that over the word of same gankers....thanks.


So now you object if it's *hard* to escape solo?
Just because incompetent pilots can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done.

Once again:
CCP Falcon wrote:
If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you.


Your suggestion that Freighters should have a get-out-of-jail-free card handed to them by CCP is ridiculous, since anyone in a frigate with webs can already do that for them.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3706 - 2014-09-03 04:39:40 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Once the faction police show up...which for gankers is often
…before the gank even starts.

Quote:
And we have had multiple freighter pilots here tell us that they couldn't warp off.
Their incompetence is not indicative of how the game mechanics work. Even a single successful attempt would nullify any and all generalisation of their failures and guess what? We have plenty of successful attempts.

Quote:
And my observations tell me that with competent bumpers it is hard/impossible to do solo. So I'll take that over the word of same gankers....thanks.
Your observations tell you nothing because you have no idea what the pilot was doing or how competent the bumpers were. And you realise that you are not talking to the gankers, but to the freighter pilots here, I hope…


1. no, because we have no idea how competent the bumpers were. We would need to be assured of maximal competence on both ends.

2. I suspect that the "freighter pilots" here may also have alts that engage in ganking. Most of the pure freighter pilots on this thread reported their ships exploding and helplessness against bumping.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#3707 - 2014-09-03 04:41:00 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Yawn, it replicates warp disrupting, *nice catch*


It doesn't do that either. Warp disrupting shuts off a warp drive. Bumping :drumroll: does no such thing.


hence the word "replicates"


rep·li·cate
verb
ˈrepliˌkāt/
1.
make an exact copy of; reproduce.

Warp disruption does one thing: it shuts off a warp drive.
Bumping does not shut off any warp drives.

In what way is that replicating anything?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3708 - 2014-09-03 04:41:01 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:


No, MWD still works, if he has one (freighters dont).




So a frigate has no issue with burning out in front of a freighter does it? The gankers are not going to catch it and they cannot stop a freighter from warping to it.

So, bumping already has an effective and easy to do counter to it.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3709 - 2014-09-03 04:42:17 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Once the faction police show up...which for gankers is often when CONCORD show up - hence irrelevent/minor.


The faction police are swarming around every HS gate at all times. They don't have to spawn.

Quote:
And we have had multiple freighter pilots here tell us that they couldn't warp off. And my observations tell me that with competent bumpers it is hard/impossible to do solo. So I'll take that over the word of same gankers....thanks.


So now you object if it's *hard* to escape solo?
Just because incompetent pilots can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done.

Once again:
CCP Falcon wrote:
If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you.


Your suggestion that Freighters should have a get-out-of-jail-free card handed to them by CCP is ridiculous, since anyone in a frigate with webs can already do that for them.


If you look at the kill you will notice both concord and police damage so he was able to tank the guns and the police until concord showed up. Now think how much 10 of those ships can tank, and you will realize that pushing off the gate is not essential, but preventing warping is.

I happen to think that if the bumping is optimal that its impossible, but if its just really hard to do, that would also be troubling, because you would have essentially replicated pointing, except for a few extremely skilled players who could avoid it.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3710 - 2014-09-03 04:43:23 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


No, MWD still works, if he has one (freighters dont).




So a frigate has no issue with burning out in front of a freighter does it? The gankers are not going to catch it and they cannot stop a freighter from warping to it.

So, bumping already has an effective and easy to do counter to it.


And there is already an effective and easy solution to warp disrupting - have your buddy ECM the guy (or even do it yourself)! CONCORD response doesnt depend on "ease" of avoidance or solution.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3711 - 2014-09-03 04:44:22 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Yawn, it replicates warp disrupting, *nice catch*


It doesn't do that either. Warp disrupting shuts off a warp drive. Bumping :drumroll: does no such thing.


hence the word "replicates"


rep·li·cate
verb
ˈrepliˌkāt/
1.
make an exact copy of; reproduce.

Warp disruption does one thing: it shuts off a warp drive.
Bumping does not shut off any warp drives.

In what way is that replicating anything?


It's replicating the EFFECT of warp disrupting, which is to prevent you from warping off. It doesn't replicate the mechanism, but the EFFECT.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3712 - 2014-09-03 04:44:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Veers Belvar wrote:
no, because we have no idea how competent the bumpers were. We would need to be assured of maximal competence on both ends.
No, we can't assume anything actually. That is yet another reason why you can't draw any conclusions from your outside observation.

Quote:
I suspect that the "freighter pilots" here may also have alts that engage in ganking.
You should deal with facts rather than suspicions. So far, your suspicions have pretty much universally led you wrong.

Quote:
t's replicating the EFFECT of warp disrupting
It doesn't do that either. The effect of warp disruption is that it keeps you from warping off. It also triggers all kinds of timers and flags. Bumping does not do any of that.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#3713 - 2014-09-03 04:45:42 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Veers Belvar wrote:
I happen to think that if the bumping is optimal that its impossible, but if its just really hard to do, that would also be troubling, because you would have essentially replicated pointing, except for a few extremely skilled players who could avoid it.


So you're saying that every bumper has to be perfect at bumping, but Freighter pilots should have the bar set to "half slackened-jaw."

And bumping in no way replicates pointing. One shuts off a warp drive, the other does not.

If you want to protect your hauling, bring friends. Don't ask CCP for protection.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3714 - 2014-09-03 04:46:09 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Veers Belvar wrote:


And there is already an effective and easy solution to warp disrupting - have your buddy ECM the guy (or even do it yourself)! CONCORD response doesnt depend on "ease" of avoidance or solution.


Warp disruptors shut down the warp drive of the target entirely, dumping does nothing to a ships warp drive.

That is the difference. A difference you seem to simply not understand.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3715 - 2014-09-03 04:46:57 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
I happen to think that if the bumping is optimal that its impossible, but if its just really hard to do, that would also be troubling, because you would have essentially replicated pointing, except for a few extremely skilled players who could avoid it.


So you're saying that every bumper has to be perfect at bumping, but Freighter pilots should have the bar set to "half slackened-jaw."

And bumping in no way replicates pointing. One shuts off a warp drive, the other does not.


From what I can tell its not so hard to bump competently, but its super hard to respond when bumped competently. Again, I would love to know the outcome if both sides behaved optimally.

CCP Falcon?
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3716 - 2014-09-03 04:48:25 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


And there is already an effective and easy solution to warp disrupting - have your buddy ECM the guy (or even do it yourself)! CONCORD response doesnt depend on "ease" of avoidance or solution.


Warp disruptors shut down the warp drive of the target entirely, dumping does not.

That is the difference. A difference you seem to simply not understand.


Warp disruptors shut off the warp drive, making the ship unable to warp off.

bumping prevents the ship from aligning and reaching warp velocity, making the ship unable to warp off.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3717 - 2014-09-03 04:48:31 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
its super hard to respond when bumped competently.


Get frigate to 151km in front of freighter, hit warp to.

How is that hard?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3718 - 2014-09-03 04:48:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Veers Belvar wrote:
From what I can tell
How well has that worked out for you so far?

Quote:
Again, I would love to know the outcome if both sides behaved optimally.

CCP Falcon?
Why do you ask him rather than the people who actually have extensive experience with it?

Quote:
bumping prevents the ship from aligning and reaching warp velocity
No, it doesn't actually do either of those.
Ignore your entire line of “bumping = warp prevention” for a moment and just answer this very general question:

What happens when you bump someone?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3719 - 2014-09-03 04:49:43 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:


Warp disruptors shut off the warp drive, making the ship unable to warp off.

bumping prevents the ship from aligning and reaching warp velocity, making the ship unable to warp off.


So the ship changes its alignment to the same direction its being bumped and can warp off. Its warp drive is not impacted at all.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3720 - 2014-09-03 04:50:09 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
its super hard to respond when bumped competently.


Get frigate to 151km in front of freighter, hit warp to.

How is that hard?


solo response....


with a buddy you can solve disrupting real easy too, just ecm the guy, does not affect CONCORD response.