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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3681 - 2014-09-03 04:08:43 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


So have one person with you in a fast frigate with ECM to jam the guy warp scrambling you and then you can both warp off. No need for CONCORD.


I don't care how you try to twist this, avoiding being bumped is very easy and you are not going to get any action taken against it from CCP. Avoiding bumping is very easy both before it happens and while it is happening.

It is not being used as a way to stop people from warping it is being used to force them away from gate guns and navy police range.


It's too bad your arguments were just demolished. It's also easy to avoid/escape getting scrammed. And bumping people who could warp off would be..well...pointless.....
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3682 - 2014-09-03 04:09:40 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

Just more lies....if the guy could warp off, bumping would be useless.


Baltec has explained the reason for bumping several times.

I'll try explaining it slowly.

Bumping
is
done
to
move
the
freighter
away
from
the
gate
guns
and
faction
police
that
would
murder
the
hell
out
of
the
gank
fleet
otherwise.


and how would that help if the freighter could warp off?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3683 - 2014-09-03 04:11:04 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Veers Belvar wrote:


It's too bad your arguments were just demolished. It's also easy to avoid/escape getting scrammed. And bumping people who could warp off would be..well...pointless.....


So tell me, does bumping shut down the ability to activate your MWD?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3684 - 2014-09-03 04:11:43 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
and how would that help if the freighter could warp off?

It helps because now you have him in a position where you stand a good chance of actually successfully performing the gank.

You are still operating under the assumption that the freighter properly tries to warp off.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#3685 - 2014-09-03 04:13:07 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Depends on the ship, Thrashers tank better than Catas, and a Talos or Brutix with an LSE can tank them for quite a bit.


None of those can tank HS gate guns and faction police for anywhere near long enough to perform a gank.

Stop lying.


How fast with a Talos with an LSE go down?

Stop lying.


Each gun does 176 dps and there are 8 on a high sec gate.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3686 - 2014-09-03 04:13:49 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


It's too bad your arguments were just demolished. It's also easy to avoid/escape getting scrammed. And bumping people who could warp off would be..well...pointless.....


So tell me, does bumping shut down the MWD?


Does warp disrupting shut down the MWD?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3687 - 2014-09-03 04:14:01 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Depends on the ship, Thrashers tank better than Catas, and a Talos or Brutix with an LSE can tank them for quite a bit.


None of those can tank HS gate guns and faction police for anywhere near long enough to perform a gank.

Stop lying.


How fast with a Talos with an LSE go down?

Stop lying.


Each gun does 176 dps and there are 8 on a high sec gate.


Plus the navy ships, often including a navy battleship.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#3688 - 2014-09-03 04:14:43 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
and how would that help if the freighter could warp off?


The freighter can warp off. It has been explained to you several times how they can do this, either solo or with assistance. That they are unaware that they can or choose not to is nobody's fault but their own.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3689 - 2014-09-03 04:14:47 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


It's too bad your arguments were just demolished. It's also easy to avoid/escape getting scrammed. And bumping people who could warp off would be..well...pointless.....


So tell me, does bumping shut down the MWD?


Does warp disrupting shut down the MWD?


Answer my question.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3690 - 2014-09-03 04:14:49 UTC
killing freighters for the sake of the freighter market was a valid point, i think. and a valid reason for killing freighters indiscriminately.

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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3691 - 2014-09-03 04:16:02 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
and how would that help if the freighter could warp off?

It helps because now you have him in a position where you stand a good chance of actually successfully performing the gank.

You are still operating under the assumption that the freighter properly tries to warp off.


If you didn't bump him there is basically a 100% chance he would warp off and you would surely not kill him.

If you do bump him, there is x% chance he will warp off, and there potentially a non zero chance you will kill him.

You can kill a guy who is on the gate, you can't kill a guy who has warped off.

So the #1 objective of bumping is to prevent warpoff (whether as I think because it cant be done, or as you think because they are doing it wrong).
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3692 - 2014-09-03 04:17:05 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


It's too bad your arguments were just demolished. It's also easy to avoid/escape getting scrammed. And bumping people who could warp off would be..well...pointless.....


So tell me, does bumping shut down the MWD?


Does warp disrupting shut down the MWD?


Answer my question.


No, MWD still works, if he has one (freighters dont).
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3693 - 2014-09-03 04:18:43 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Depends on the ship, Thrashers tank better than Catas, and a Talos or Brutix with an LSE can tank them for quite a bit.


None of those can tank HS gate guns and faction police for anywhere near long enough to perform a gank.

Stop lying.


How fast with a Talos with an LSE go down?

Stop lying.


Each gun does 176 dps and there are 8 on a high sec gate.



So the guns will maybe melt 2 Talos's before Concord shows up. That means if you bring 10, 8 are still whacking away at the guy. If you don't bump him, its easy to warp off, and he will live. If you do bump him, some chance he wont warp off, and then if you bring enough dps you can kill him whether he is one the gate or not.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3694 - 2014-09-03 04:19:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Veers Belvar wrote:
Does warp disrupting shut down the MWD?
Warp disruptors are not scrams. I would normally add “you know this, right” at this point, but we all know that you don't.

Quote:
If you didn't bump him there is basically a 100% chance he would warp off and you would surely not kill him.
No. Warping off is not a factor; if you didn't bump him there, half of the gank fleet would just insta-die, the other half would die a little later (and most likely not achieve a kill since the DPS required is no longer there), and the odds of getting any loot is close to zero. If warping off was somthing you wanted to avoid, you'd just put a point on him.

Quote:
You can kill a guy who is on the gate
You can, but doing so requires far more manpower and massively increases the risks to the point where it's most likely not worth doing.

Quote:
So the #1 objective of bumping is to
…move him away from the spot where everyone will die, the gank will fail, and/or the loot will be lost. Warping off is not a factor.

Quote:
No, MWD still works
So why do you keep lying about how it replaces warp scrambling?
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3695 - 2014-09-03 04:23:08 UTC


Quote:
You can kill a guy who is on the gate
You can, but doing so requires far more manpower and massively increases the risks to the point where it's most likely not worth doing.

Quote:
So the #1 objective of bumping is to
…move him away from the spot where everyone will die, the gank will fail, and/or the loot will be lost. Warping off is not a factor.

Quote:
No, MWD still works
So why do you keep lying about how it replaces warp scrambling?[/quote]

And if you don't bump him he will always warp off and your gank will never work. The reason the Codebros don't point/scram ships on landing is because that would spawn CONCORD. They need time to undock all the -10 folks and get them to target. And anyhow, my ENTIRE point about bumping concerned its use between gank attempts, with CONCORD already on the scene, when pointing is impossible.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3696 - 2014-09-03 04:29:18 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
And if you don't bump him he will always warp off
No.

Quote:
The reason the Codebros don't point/scram ships on landing is because that would spawn CONCORD.
You know that spawning CONCORD is a very handy tool for the ganker, right?

Quote:
They need time to undock all the -10 folks and get them to target.
Not really, no.

Quote:
And anyhow, my ENTIRE point about bumping concerned its use between gank attempts, with CONCORD already on the scene, when pointing is impossible.
Your entire point about bumping is based on a complete ignorance of the mechanics involved and a fundamental misunderstanding of the strategies being employed. Your point is therefore very stupid and has no bearing on the game.

By the way, you didn't answer the question: why do you keep lying about how bumping replicates warp scrambling?
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3697 - 2014-09-03 04:30:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Veers Belvar
Tippia wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
And if you don't bump him he will always warp off
No.

Quote:
The reason the Codebros don't point/scram ships on landing is because that would spawn CONCORD.
You know that spawning CONCORD is a very handy tool for the ganker, right?

Quote:
They need time to undock all the -10 folks and get them to target.
Not really, no.

Quote:
And anyhow, my ENTIRE point about bumping concerned its use between gank attempts, with CONCORD already on the scene, when pointing is impossible.
Your entire point about bumping is based on a complete ignorance of the mechanics involved and a fundamental misunderstanding of the strategies being employed. Your point is therefore very stupid and has no bearing on the game.

By the way, you didn't answer the question: why do you keep lying about how bumping replicates warp scrambling?


Yawn, it replicates warp disrupting, *nice catch*

As for the rest, evading the truth as always.

edit - and as far as the topic of this thread - freighters - irrelevent, since they dont have mwds.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#3698 - 2014-09-03 04:31:06 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
So the guns will maybe melt 2 Talos's before Concord shows up. That means if you bring 10, 8 are still whacking away at the guy. If you don't bump him, its easy to warp off, and he will live. If you do bump him, some chance he wont warp off, and then if you bring enough dps you can kill him whether he is one the gate or not.


You're forgetting the Faction police which, in this case, did 5 times as much damage to the Talos as the gate guns.

Bumping is done to get Freighters out of range of gate guns and Faction Police. That the autopilot is bad at adjusting to changing circumstances is a happy bonus. That Freighter pilots are even worse at adjusting to changing circumstances is both pathetic and hilarious at the same time.

Bumping also happens to be trivial to avoid. You've been told this by several people who actually know what they're talking about.
Baltec is pretty good at ganking.
I ran a JF service for a year without losing a single ship or really being inconvenienced in any way, and I am abysmal at EVE.
Tippia is a walking game mechanic encyclopedia.

You have been proven to be wrong on essentially every claim you have made about game mechanics.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3699 - 2014-09-03 04:33:13 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Yawn, it replicates warp disrupting, *nice catch*
No, not that either.

Tell me a couple of things:
1. How does warping work? What are the requirements and mechanics involved?
2. How does bumping work? What does it do and how?
3. How does warp scrambling work? What does it do and how?
4. How does warp disruption work? What does it do and how?

Quote:
As for the rest, evading the truth as always.
I really wish you wouldn't. if you instead accepted the truth and stuck to them, you wouldn't have such huge problems right now.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3700 - 2014-09-03 04:33:44 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
So the guns will maybe melt 2 Talos's before Concord shows up. That means if you bring 10, 8 are still whacking away at the guy. If you don't bump him, its easy to warp off, and he will live. If you do bump him, some chance he wont warp off, and then if you bring enough dps you can kill him whether he is one the gate or not.


You're forgetting the Faction police which, in this case, did 5 times as much damage to the Talos as the gate guns.

Bumping is done to get Freighters out of range of gate guns and Faction Police. That the autopilot is bad at adjusting to changing circumstances is a happy bonus. That Freighter pilots are even worse at adjusting to changing circumstances is both pathetic and hilarious at the same time.

Bumping also happens to be trivial to avoid. You've been told this by several people who actually know what they're talking about.
Baltec is pretty good at ganking.
I ran a JF service for a year without losing a single ship or really being inconvenienced in any way, and I am abysmal at EVE.
Tippia is a walking game mechanic encyclopedia.

You have been proven to be wrong on essentially every claim you have made about game mechanics.



Once the faction police show up...which for gankers is often when CONCORD show up - hence irrelevent/minor.

And we have had multiple freighter pilots here tell us that they couldn't warp off. And my observations tell me that with competent bumpers it is hard/impossible to do solo. So I'll take that over the word of same gankers....thanks.