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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3581 - 2014-09-03 01:16:54 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
That makes me prefer forcing the career gankers to grind for sec status, which would have less effect on the occasional gankers who do it for profit.


Ah, look, he's switched gears again.

Do tell, how do you think this unnecessary goal should be accomplished?


Switched gears? This has been my position throughout. I think that depending on the sec status of the system, the faction police spawn time should also depend on security status of the ganker. This would force gankers with low security status to go kill rats, run missions, to get it up. This would incentivize gankers to carefully pick juicy targets, and not just blow up everything that moves. I also favor more favorable loot drops when cargo value >> hull value + mod value, to make it more lucrative to blow up undertanked and inappropriate haulers.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#3582 - 2014-09-03 01:21:40 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

Switched gears? This has been my position throughout.


No, it has not. You spent pretty much the entirety of yesterday blathering about the 60 second immunity bubble


Quote:
This would incentivize gankers to carefully pick juicy targets, and not just blow up everything that moves.


Why? What's wrong with burning down empty ships? They're dumb enough to get caught after all.


Quote:

I also favor more favorable loot drops when cargo value >> hull value + mod value, to make it more lucrative to blow up undertanked and inappropriate haulers.


Oh, good Lord no. Do you realize the implications of that? How bad that would be?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#3583 - 2014-09-03 01:25:48 UTC
Veers, do you understand that everything you've been arguing for would result in a lot less death and destruction in a high sec that already has very little in the way of spaceship violence? Do you understand that a large increase in spaceship violence would be good for pretty much everyone?

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Myles Wong
The One's Who Matter
#3584 - 2014-09-03 01:27:15 UTC
Get rid of faction police and criminal timers. Give those who choose to gank unlimited mobility. High sec will either police itself or turn into a spacey version of the old west. CONCORD stays the same as a deterrent to battleship roams and the like.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#3585 - 2014-09-03 01:28:17 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Veers, do you understand that everything you've been arguing for would result in a lot less death and destruction in a high sec that already has very little in the way of spaceship violence? Do you understand that a large increase in spaceship violence would be good for pretty much everyone?


Heck, I want to know if he understands the implications of his drop rate suggestion. That one is just baffling.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#3586 - 2014-09-03 01:35:16 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Veers, do you understand that everything you've been arguing for would result in a lot less death and destruction in a high sec that already has very little in the way of spaceship violence? Do you understand that a large increase in spaceship violence would be good for pretty much everyone?


Heck, I want to know if he understands the implications of his drop rate suggestion. That one is just baffling.


I must have missed that one. There's only so many pages of bizarre stuff you can read before your eyes start to glaze over.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Helena Tiberius Mabata
Doomheim
#3587 - 2014-09-03 01:37:44 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
That makes me prefer forcing the career gankers to grind for sec status, which would have less effect on the occasional gankers who do it for profit.


Ah, look, he's switched gears again.

Do tell, how do you think this unnecessary goal should be accomplished?


Switched gears? This has been my position throughout. I think that depending on the sec status of the system, the faction police spawn time should also depend on security status of the ganker. This would force gankers with low security status to go kill rats, run missions, to get it up. This would incentivize gankers to carefully pick juicy targets, and not just blow up everything that moves. I also favor more favorable loot drops when cargo value >> hull value + mod value, to make it more lucrative to blow up undertanked and inappropriate haulers.



in the Name of James 315 What did I just read?!
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3588 - 2014-09-03 01:38:08 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Veers, do you understand that everything you've been arguing for would result in a lot less death and destruction in a high sec that already has very little in the way of spaceship violence? Do you understand that a large increase in spaceship violence would be good for pretty much everyone?


Heck, I want to know if he understands the implications of his drop rate suggestion. That one is just baffling.


I must have missed that one. There's only so many pages of bizarre stuff you can read before your eyes start to glaze over.


I'm not sure more mayhem in highsec is good for the game. It would hardest hit the most vulnerable people. What I would like to see is more in the way of consequences for bad decision making, and less in the way of consequences for actions that should not normally lead to destruction ( flying empty freighters, afk flying pods, etc...).
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#3589 - 2014-09-03 01:39:38 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
I'm not sure more mayhem in highsec is good for the game.


More stuff exploding means miners make more from mining, producers make more from producing, marketeers make more from marketeering. It's fairly simple - even I can understand it.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3590 - 2014-09-03 01:40:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
You gots your finger on the pulse of it Tippia, when it comes to risk/reward and highsec ganking.

Now, for the fun part. Doesn't matter in the least for CODE ganking. CODE makes isk on empty hauler kills. The ship itself is pretty meaningless, in fact. Remember, CODE monetized the ganking of miners, at first.

CODE makes it's money on stories and attention. Get a gank, get hilarious tearmail, build a funny blog post, get donations. THAT is where the ISK rolls in from.
Oh, I know. I'm paying them for it, after all. Twisted

Veers Belvar wrote:
What we also see is that the suicide gankers are funded by incredibly bored people in nullsec. Short of fixing the sov mechanics and getting null interesting again, it seems fair to say that those folks will keep pouring in isk to CODE for the sake of some highsec mayhem.
Funnily enough, that will not cut off their funding since the entertainment they provide is not limited to “bored people in nullsec”. So what you're suggesting will not have the effect you're after.

Quote:
That makes me prefer forcing the career gankers to grind for sec status, which would have less effect on the occasional gankers who do it for profit.
Why is anything of the kind needed?

Quote:
This would incentivize gankers to carefully pick juicy targets, and not just blow up everything that moves.
This is already the case.
Helena Tiberius Mabata
Doomheim
#3591 - 2014-09-03 01:41:17 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Veers, do you understand that everything you've been arguing for would result in a lot less death and destruction in a high sec that already has very little in the way of spaceship violence? Do you understand that a large increase in spaceship violence would be good for pretty much everyone?


Heck, I want to know if he understands the implications of his drop rate suggestion. That one is just baffling.


I must have missed that one. There's only so many pages of bizarre stuff you can read before your eyes start to glaze over.


I'm not sure more mayhem in highsec is good for the game. It would hardest hit the most vulnerable people. What I would like to see is more in the way of consequences for bad decision making, and less in the way of consequences for actions that should not normally lead to destruction ( flying empty freighters, afk flying pods, etc...).



More Mayhem in high sec is good, because Content is good too, we provide content
More Consequences for bad decision making? Doesnt get much worse than losing you 10b Nomad and your snake set in the span of 20 seconds.
Actions that should not normally have lead to destruction = Does not apply once you undock
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Doomheim
#3592 - 2014-09-03 01:44:09 UTC  |  Edited by: NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
It seems like some people seem to want to continually confuse the issue here.

Many people are continually saying ganking is fine because its possible to use a second account to scout and avoid ganks.

These people seem to be ignoring the main complaints about suicide ganking.

1. Suicide Ganking relies mostly upon lack of knowledge of the game to be succesful. Newer players and casuals just aren't aware of what is possible and concord response times and that they should never put expensive things into a single hauler as so many often do. Because of this, newer players and casuals that pay cash for their subs are the primary victims of suicide gankers.

2. Suicide gankers are not deterred in any way by the insignificant costs and penalties associated with suicide ganking. Not only are they abusing lack of knowledge of the game to gain potentially incredible profits, but they are inflicting emotional distress on other players within the comfort of high sec and risking nearly nothing. Its completely unfair to other activities in EVE that involve risk for reward.


and yes, even casual and newer players do own freighters.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3593 - 2014-09-03 01:44:31 UTC
Helena Tiberius Mabata wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Veers, do you understand that everything you've been arguing for would result in a lot less death and destruction in a high sec that already has very little in the way of spaceship violence? Do you understand that a large increase in spaceship violence would be good for pretty much everyone?


Heck, I want to know if he understands the implications of his drop rate suggestion. That one is just baffling.


I must have missed that one. There's only so many pages of bizarre stuff you can read before your eyes start to glaze over.


I'm not sure more mayhem in highsec is good for the game. It would hardest hit the most vulnerable people. What I would like to see is more in the way of consequences for bad decision making, and less in the way of consequences for actions that should not normally lead to destruction ( flying empty freighters, afk flying pods, etc...).



More Mayhem in high sec is good, because Content is good too, we provide content
More Consequences for bad decision making? Doesnt get much worse than losing you 10b Nomad and your snake set in the span of 20 seconds.
Actions that should not normally have lead to destruction = Does not apply once you undock


Generally people expect to be on guard when someone else can benefit from harming them. You are less on guard when flying an empty freighter, or flying around in a pod, because no one really benefits from blowing you up. Hence the surprise of OP when seeing empty freighters blown up.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#3594 - 2014-09-03 01:50:15 UTC
Here, since no one else has pointed it out, I will go ahead and inform you about how bad your drop rate idea is.

It makes RMT not just possible, but also highly viable. Nevermind that it allows for killboard padding with much less possibility of loss, and other such unsavory tricks.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Helena Tiberius Mabata
Doomheim
#3595 - 2014-09-03 01:50:36 UTC
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:
It seems like some people seem to want to continually confuse the issue here.

Many people are continually saying ganking is fine because its possible to use a second account to scout and avoid ganks.

These people seem to be ignoring the main complaints about suicide ganking.

1. Suicide Ganking relies mostly upon lack of knowledge of the game to be succesful. Newer players and casuals just aren't aware of what is possible and concord response times and that they should never put expensive things into a single hauler as so many often do. Because of this, newer players and casuals that pay cash for their subs are the primary victims of suicide gankers.

2. Suicide gankers are not deterred in any way by the insignificant costs and penalties associated with suicide ganking. Not only are they abusing lack of knowledge of the game to gain potentially incredible profits, but they are inflicting emotional distress on other players within the comfort of high sec and risking nearly nothing. Its completely unfair to other activities in EVE that involve risk for reward.


and yes, even casual and newer players do own freighters.



Weve ganked people who have been playing for years so #1 doesnt apply, plus even new players hear about ganks not long after joining so if they dont infer from that then its an issue of needing to learn by a more direct method.

you could say ganks are deterred by, wait lets make this fun, what rhymes with gank and should be fitted always?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3596 - 2014-09-03 01:51:41 UTC
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:
It seems like some people seem to want to continually confuse the issue here.
Yes. You are definitely one of them.

Quote:
These people seem to be ignoring the main complaints about suicide ganking.

1. Suicide Ganking relies mostly upon lack of knowledge of the game to be succesful.
Not really, no. Suicide ganks rely on carelessness and laziness to be successful. They go after people who don't take any precautions — something that is not tied to account age — and those who have something worth-while stealing (aka not new players or casuals).

Quote:
2. Suicide gankers are not deterred in any way by the insignificant costs and penalties associated with suicide ganking.
Sure it is. The problem is that the victims willingly decide to void many of the consequences to ganking — specifically the parts that it is their job to enforce. If they choose not to create significant costs and penalties, then sure, the costs and penalties will be lower, but then that is also not a problem. After all, it's exactly how the players themselves want it.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3597 - 2014-09-03 01:54:05 UTC
Helena Tiberius Mabata wrote:
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:
It seems like some people seem to want to continually confuse the issue here.

Many people are continually saying ganking is fine because its possible to use a second account to scout and avoid ganks.

These people seem to be ignoring the main complaints about suicide ganking.

1. Suicide Ganking relies mostly upon lack of knowledge of the game to be succesful. Newer players and casuals just aren't aware of what is possible and concord response times and that they should never put expensive things into a single hauler as so many often do. Because of this, newer players and casuals that pay cash for their subs are the primary victims of suicide gankers.

2. Suicide gankers are not deterred in any way by the insignificant costs and penalties associated with suicide ganking. Not only are they abusing lack of knowledge of the game to gain potentially incredible profits, but they are inflicting emotional distress on other players within the comfort of high sec and risking nearly nothing. Its completely unfair to other activities in EVE that involve risk for reward.


and yes, even casual and newer players do own freighters.



Weve ganked people who have been playing for years so #1 doesnt apply, plus even new players hear about ganks not long after joining so if they dont infer from that then its an issue of needing to learn by a more direct method.

you could say ganks are deterred by, wait lets make this fun, what rhymes with gank and should be fitted always?


You are currently running a pod killing contest which is designed to blow things up that provide no benefit to you. It's kind of like blowing up empty ships. Players don't understand why you are doing it.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3598 - 2014-09-03 01:56:29 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
Veers Belvar wrote:

You are currently running a pod killing contest which is designed to blow things up that provide no benefit to you. It's kind of like blowing up empty ships. Players don't understand why you are doing it.


Again you do not get it... Not all PVP is for profit. You're thinking like a carebear. "If I do ____ I will make ____ ISK ". PVP is if I do this I will have ____ fun and enjoy the game ____ much.
Helena Tiberius Mabata
Doomheim
#3599 - 2014-09-03 01:56:54 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
you are blowing up empty ships. Players don't understand why you are doing it.


We do it because its fun, because there are prizes, because its content, because it introduces people to emergent gameplay, because it teaches people not to autopilot pods, because it teaches, wait do i really have to keep going here?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3600 - 2014-09-03 01:57:02 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
You are currently running a pod killing contest which is designed to blow things up that provide no benefit to you. It's kind of like blowing up empty ships. Players don't understand why you are doing it.

Fun and money (and exposure — the most valuable of assets). Easy enough to understand.