These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#3501 - 2014-09-02 15:51:03 UTC
How is it even possible to be that detached from reality.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
#3502 - 2014-09-02 15:59:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Anne Dieu-le-veut
In theory, the "HALP!" button and CONCORD not even responding unless it's pushed is great. However, I don't doubt for a second that the better bot programs would hit this button immediately.

Edit: Change it so base response times are the same, but CONCORD's clock doesn't even start until they are called.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#3503 - 2014-09-02 15:59:06 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
If they respond immediately this would be an extreme buff to botting, as it would be very simple to automatically respond to such an event.

EDIT:
If it is not immediately, can he still call CONCORD if he is already dead? Alpha Fleet?


A planned alpha gank is going to have the same effect whether a player is afk or not. This is more about whether or not CONCORD should respond at all to someone who isn't present in the first place. In other words, using this mechanic, your alpha fleet would not be CONCORDED if the target is afk.

On that note, an alpha fleet may destroy a target too quickly for them to respond, so I would suggest a minimum of maybe 30 seconds, and then the popup disappears. That way, if a victim isn't afk, but is ganked and podded, or not, due to being surprised and hesitant, which is normal, he can still summon the punitive measures of CONCORD from afar due to the pop up asking if he'd like CONCORD assistance staying up for that minimum of 30 seconds.

This still leaves room for being afk, but not very much.

On the other hand, if a target is going to be destroyed so quickly as to have no opportunity to respond, why should he be able to?

Some things worth thinking about and discussing further maybe.


Yea lets apply this same pop up to afk cloakers and you have a deal.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#3504 - 2014-09-02 16:02:38 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
How is it even possible to be that detached from reality.
Excessive Psilocybin consumption?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#3505 - 2014-09-02 16:08:00 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Some things worth thinking about and discussing further maybe.

no it's offtopic and bad

highsec is a place where you can go afk to avoid having to do horrible boring arse things like mining with a reasonable chance of staying alive due to not many people wanting to die from magic space police attack

the reason you've supplied in favour is 'maybe people will afk less' which is silly because of this. first. being afk isn't by itself a bad thing. second. if someone's afking something it's because that thing is horrifically boring. forcing them to be there or lose the only safety net that reasonably allows them to afk is effectively forcing them to stare at the screen watching their spaceship do the stupendously boring thing.

it's all stick and no carrot. for the sake of 'preventing people from afking in highsec' because (???)

third. it's adding complexity to concord for the sake of the mentioned (???) and for compexity's sake. neither of which are a compelling reason to make changes.
Steppa Musana
Doomheim
#3506 - 2014-09-02 16:08:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Steppa Musana
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Nitchiu wrote:
Personally I'd say the base time should stay the same while the time to press the button would be added to the time it takes for CONCORD to arrive. But still have the ship die in a blaze of CONCORD.


Actually, I'm quite fond of the idea of CONCORD not appearing at all if a ganki victim is afk. If he intentionally makes himself incapable of mitigating the risk to himself, why should someone else do it for him? In this case, why should a game mechanic be doing it for him?

The victim would still get killrights, and the ganker would still take a sec hit. Absolutely nothing else would change except that if a gank victim does not acknowledge an attack to himself, then punitive measures won't be taken. You could even put it into lore - how is CONCORD to know you're under attack if you don't tell them?

I'm a highsec miner that makes 90% of his income from being completely AFK while mining.

And I have to +1 this. It just makes sense what you're proposing. When I was a newbie I used to think it was damn absurd that people could go AFK in a supposed PVP game with little consequence. Through my time AFK mining I have lost perspective of that, but now I am reminded. It really is... completely stupid.

I would probably lose a freighter, or two, or three... but whatever. It would be good for game balance.

Hey guys.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3507 - 2014-09-02 16:08:03 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
How is it even possible to be that detached from reality.


Answer: modern society.

In the past people 'detached from reality' would have been darwin'd by a bear or other wild animal in the wild. The draw back of modern civilization is that we paved over the wild to build a wal-mart, so no more bears to keep the delusional eco-system in balance Cool
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#3508 - 2014-09-02 16:09:58 UTC
this was meant to be in my above post but regardless of (or perhaps considering) the idea's badness it should be in f&i and not the carebear mockery thread freighter gank thread
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3509 - 2014-09-02 16:58:19 UTC
I can see this "push button, call concord" idea opening up a few exploits. It's neat in theory but you have to consider how to handle warping and docking for pilots who have engaged in a criminal act but haven't yet been flagged by the victim. It depends a lot on how long the victim has the option to CONCORD you, for example. It could lead to situations where people can escape CONCORD. People might also find a way to prevent the victim from clicking the dialogue box.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Doomheim
#3510 - 2014-09-02 16:59:52 UTC  |  Edited by: NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Devils Embrace wrote:
. Eve is a dark gritty universe and Eve has risks.


Unless you are a suicide ganker, and thats what this thread is about. Suicide gankers aren't playing the same game as the rest of us.

The reality is that sucide gankers are typically afraid of losing in real pvp and that is why they chose to sit on high sec gates preying on noobs and casuals who aren't familiar with concord response times. Instead of looking for challenging opponents that would be much more satisfying to put down, they chose to prey on the weakest of players who usually have no recourse. There is no reason CCP needs to continue enabling these extremely risk-averse players who somehow feel entitled to screw with random noobs and casuals within the comfort of high sec.

These are the types of people who always get **** on in PVP games and have been reduced to suicide ganking in EVE for a reason. They are not people who you can respect and they do not deserve any special treatment in EVE.

Other game companies would realize by now that it is a bad idea to let the toxic sociopaths exploit newer and casual players whose only crime is not being familiar with concord response times. Suicide gankers do not benefit the game whatsoever, they take away from it. I'm personally disgusted that such a low-risk, low-cost, high-profit mechanic exists in EVE at all, the fact that it primarily targets newer/casual players for exploitation makes it even worse. It makes EVE feel unfair and like a disgusting game where the most pathetic of sociopaths get to have their cake and eat it too and don't have to play by the same rules as the rest of us. Fixing can flipping and creating crime watch were a step in the right direction and now something needs to be done to fix suicide ganking which more risk-averse players are flocking to everyday. These things don't seem to be a problem for CCP untill more people start doing it. It is only a matter of time before the head gets removed from where the sun don't shine. I'm confident of that. Nobody is asking for an end so high-sec pvp or some ridiculous thing like that. Suicide ganking is just completely broken and imbalanced and every intelligent person knows it.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#3511 - 2014-09-02 17:03:53 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Yea lets apply this same pop up to afk cloakers and you have a deal.

Aaaaaand there is the rant about AFK cloacking, I think the thread is now complete and we can all go home.

Evil RatKid
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#3512 - 2014-09-02 17:12:14 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I can see this "push button, call concord" idea opening up a few exploits. It's neat in theory but you have to consider how to handle warping and docking for pilots who have engaged in a criminal act but haven't yet been flagged by the victim. It depends a lot on how long the victim has the option to CONCORD you, for example. It could lead to situations where people can escape CONCORD. People might also find a way to prevent the victim from clicking the dialogue box.


When you gank it would initiate a CONCORD timer. It scrambles your warping and lasts until the timer is up or they've called CONCORD.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#3513 - 2014-09-02 17:15:02 UTC
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:
everyday i'm trollin'
Now where did I put my carebear bingo card?

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#3514 - 2014-09-02 17:16:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:
Devils Embrace wrote:
. Eve is a dark gritty universe and Eve has risks.


Unless you are a suicide ganker, and thats what this thread is about. Suicide gankers aren't playing the same game as the rest of us.

The reality is that sucide gankers are typically afraid of losing in real pvp and that is why they chose to sit on high sec gates preying on noobs and casuals who aren't familiar with concord response times. Instead of looking for challenging opponents that would be much more satisfying to put down, they chose to prey on the weakest of players who usually have no recourse. There is no reason CCP needs to continue enabling these extremely risk-averse players who somehow feel entitled to screw with random noobs and casuals within the comfort of high sec.

These are the types of people who always get **** on in PVP games and have been reduced to suicide ganking in EVE for a reason. They are not people who you can respect and they do not deserve any special treatment in EVE.

Other game companies would realize by now that it is a bad idea to let the toxic sociopaths exploit newer and casual players whose only crime is not being familiar with concord response times. Suicide gankers do not benefit the game whatsoever, they take away from it. I'm personally disgusted that such a low-risk, low-cost, high-profit mechanic exists in EVE at all, the fact that it primarily targets newer/casual players for exploitation makes it even worse. It makes EVE feel unfair and like a disgusting game where the most pathetic of sociopaths get to have their cake and eat it too and don't have to play by the same rules as the rest of us. Fixing can flipping and creating crime watch were a step in the right direction and now something needs to be done to fix suicide ganking which more risk-averse players are flocking to everyday. These things don't seem to be a problem for CCP untill more people start doing it. It is only a matter of time before the head gets removed from where the sun don't shine. I'm confident of that. Nobody is asking for an end so high-sec pvp or some ridiculous thing like that. Suicide ganking is just completely broken and imbalanced and every intelligent person knows it.
Ignorance is not a defence.

When you play a game that is renowned for allowing stuff that other games consider bannable activities you make damn sure you at least know the basics. How fast Concord responds and what it responds to are fairly basic and easy mechanics to understand, it's also readily available public domain information.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#3515 - 2014-09-02 17:19:26 UTC
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:

Unless you are a suicide ganker, and thats what this thread is about. Suicide gankers aren't playing the same game as the rest of us.

The reality is that sucide gankers are typically afraid of losing in real pvp and that is why they chose to sit on high sec gates preying on noobs and casuals who aren't familiar with concord response times. Instead of looking for challenging opponents that would be much more satisfying to put down, they chose to prey on the weakest of players who usually have no recourse. There is no reason CCP needs to continue enabling these extremely risk-averse players who somehow feel entitled to screw with random noobs and casuals within the comfort of high sec.

These are the types of people who always get **** on in PVP games and have been reduced to suicide ganking in EVE for a reason. They are not people who you can respect and they do not deserve any special treatment in EVE.

Other game companies would realize by now that it is a bad idea to let the toxic sociopaths exploit newer and casual players whose only crime is not being familiar with concord response times. Suicide gankers do not benefit the game whatsoever, they take away from it. I'm personally disgusted that such a low-risk, low-cost, high-profit mechanic exists in EVE at all, the fact that it primarily targets newer/casual players for exploitation makes it even worse. It makes EVE feel unfair and like a disgusting game where the most pathetic of sociopaths get to have their cake and eat it too and don't have to play by the same rules as the rest of us. Fixing can flipping and creating crime watch were a step in the right direction and now something needs to be done to fix suicide ganking which more risk-averse players are flocking to everyday. These things don't seem to be a problem for CCP untill more people start doing it. It is only a matter of time before the head gets removed from where the sun don't shine. I'm confident of that. Nobody is asking for an end so high-sec pvp or some ridiculous thing like that. Suicide ganking is just completely broken and imbalanced and every intelligent person knows it.


Hey there. Suicide ganker here. You can regularly find me PvPing in WH space and NullSec. I'd be more than happy to meet you somewhere for a 1v1.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#3516 - 2014-09-02 17:22:26 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Hey there. Suicide ganker here. You can regularly find me PvPing in WH space and NullSec. I'd be more than happy to meet you somewhere for a 1v1.


Shhhh everybody knows suicide gankers are too scared to do "real PvP" P


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#3517 - 2014-09-02 17:24:44 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Hey there. Suicide ganker here. You can regularly find me PvPing in WH space and NullSec. I'd be more than happy to meet you somewhere for a 1v1.


Shhhh everybody knows suicide gankers are too scared to do "real PvP" P




Oops, sorry. Am I leaking secrets again?

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#3518 - 2014-09-02 18:13:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Pahrdi
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:
Unless you are a suicide ganker, and thats what this thread is about. Suicide gankers aren't playing the same game as the rest of us.

The reality is that sucide gankers are typically afraid of losing in real pvp and that is why they chose to sit on high sec gates preying on noobs and casuals who aren't familiar with concord response times. Instead of looking for challenging opponents that would be much more satisfying to put down, they chose to prey on the weakest of players who usually have no recourse. There is no reason CCP needs to continue enabling these extremely risk-averse players who somehow feel entitled to screw with random noobs and casuals within the comfort of high sec.

These are the types of people who always get **** on in PVP games and have been reduced to suicide ganking in EVE for a reason. They are not people who you can respect and they do not deserve any special treatment in EVE.

Other game companies would realize by now that it is a bad idea to let the toxic sociopaths exploit newer and casual players whose only crime is not being familiar with concord response times. Suicide gankers do not benefit the game whatsoever, they take away from it. I'm personally disgusted that such a low-risk, low-cost, high-profit mechanic exists in EVE at all, the fact that it primarily targets newer/casual players for exploitation makes it even worse. It makes EVE feel unfair and like a disgusting game where the most pathetic of sociopaths get to have their cake and eat it too and don't have to play by the same rules as the rest of us. Fixing can flipping and creating crime watch were a step in the right direction and now something needs to be done to fix suicide ganking which more risk-averse players are flocking to everyday. These things don't seem to be a problem for CCP untill more people start doing it. It is only a matter of time before the head gets removed from where the sun don't shine. I'm confident of that. Nobody is asking for an end so high-sec pvp or some ridiculous thing like that. Suicide ganking is just completely broken and imbalanced and every intelligent person knows it.

I've never done any suicide ganking. Ganking in lowsec, sure. Wormhole eviction, yes. But never any suicide ganking.

That said, without suicide ganking highsec would be a dull and boring place. A grind without dangers. Cause there are no dangers in HS space apart from suicide ganking. Suicide ganking is the spice in HS life.

It doesn't matter, why someone is into suicide ganking. Whatever the reason, he is rending you a service. It doesn't matter how good he is in... errm, whatever you think is good PvP. As long as he's there to create risk, to create danger. That's a suicide gankers purpose.

I agree it's not the best thing to be selective and pick rookies as targets. But apart from that everyone is fair game. Why should casual players be entitled to a different treatment? What is even a casual player in New Eden but a person with a below average amount of available playtime? Why should such a player be special?

Now it may be there are things, that need tweaking. But certainly not more than that.

Remove standings and insurance.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3519 - 2014-09-02 18:17:45 UTC
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:
Unless you are a suicide ganker, and thats what this thread is about. Suicide gankers aren't playing the same game as the rest of us.

The reality is that sucide gankers are typically afraid of losing in real pvp and that is why they chose to sit on high sec gates preying on noobs and casuals who aren't familiar with concord response times. Instead of looking for challenging opponents that would be much more satisfying to put down, they chose to prey on the weakest of players who usually have no recourse. There is no reason CCP needs to continue enabling these extremely risk-averse players who somehow feel entitled to screw with random noobs and casuals within the comfort of high sec.

These are the types of people who always get **** on in PVP games and have been reduced to suicide ganking in EVE for a reason. They are not people who you can respect and they do not deserve any special treatment in EVE.

Other game companies would realize by now that it is a bad idea to let the toxic sociopaths exploit newer and casual players whose only crime is not being familiar with concord response times. Suicide gankers do not benefit the game whatsoever, they take away from it. I'm personally disgusted that such a low-risk, low-cost, high-profit mechanic exists in EVE at all, the fact that it primarily targets newer/casual players for exploitation makes it even worse. It makes EVE feel unfair and like a disgusting game where the most pathetic of sociopaths get to have their cake and eat it too and don't have to play by the same rules as the rest of us. Fixing can flipping and creating crime watch were a step in the right direction and now something needs to be done to fix suicide ganking which more risk-averse players are flocking to everyday. These things don't seem to be a problem for CCP untill more people start doing it. It is only a matter of time before the head gets removed from where the sun don't shine. I'm confident of that. Nobody is asking for an end so high-sec pvp or some ridiculous thing like that. Suicide ganking is just completely broken and imbalanced and every intelligent person knows it.

I've never done any suicide ganking. Ganking in lowsec, sure. Wormhole eviction, yes. But never any suicide ganking.

That said, without suicide ganking highsec would be a dull and boring place. A grind without dangers. Cause there are no dangers in HS space apart from suicide ganking. Suicide ganking is the spice in HS life.

It doesn't matter, why someone is into suicide ganking. Whatever the reason, he is rending you a service. It doesn't matter how good he is in... errm, whatever you think is good PvP. As long as he's there to create risk, to create danger. That's a suicide gankers purpose.

I agree it's not the best thing to be selective and pick rookies as targets. But apart from that everyone is fair game. Why should casual players be entitled to a different treatment? What is even a casual player in New Eden but a person with a below average amount of available playtime? Why should such a player be special?

Now it may be there are things, that need tweaking. But certainly not more than that.


This is a good point. Without suicide ganking the game would be as boring as the Star Trek game. Suicide ganking keeps things interesting in highsec, and forces players to learn to make good decisions. What does need a tweak is the CODE abuse of various game mechanics (bumping, -10 sec status, etc...) to blow up empty ships, grief new players, and look for tears, not isk. CCP just needs to intelligently incentivize them to act more like rational suicide gankers who do it as a business.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#3520 - 2014-09-02 18:18:28 UTC
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:
Unless you are a suicide ganker, and thats what this thread is about. Suicide gankers aren't playing the same game as the rest of us.

The reality is that sucide gankers are typically afraid of losing in real pvp and that is why they chose to sit on high sec gates preying on noobs and casuals who aren't familiar with concord response times. Instead of looking for challenging opponents that would be much more satisfying to put down, they chose to prey on the weakest of players who usually have no recourse. There is no reason CCP needs to continue enabling these extremely risk-averse players who somehow feel entitled to screw with random noobs and casuals within the comfort of high sec.

These are the types of people who always get **** on in PVP games and have been reduced to suicide ganking in EVE for a reason. They are not people who you can respect and they do not deserve any special treatment in EVE.

Other game companies would realize by now that it is a bad idea to let the toxic sociopaths exploit newer and casual players whose only crime is not being familiar with concord response times. Suicide gankers do not benefit the game whatsoever, they take away from it. I'm personally disgusted that such a low-risk, low-cost, high-profit mechanic exists in EVE at all, the fact that it primarily targets newer/casual players for exploitation makes it even worse. It makes EVE feel unfair and like a disgusting game where the most pathetic of sociopaths get to have their cake and eat it too and don't have to play by the same rules as the rest of us. Fixing can flipping and creating crime watch were a step in the right direction and now something needs to be done to fix suicide ganking which more risk-averse players are flocking to everyday. These things don't seem to be a problem for CCP untill more people start doing it. It is only a matter of time before the head gets removed from where the sun don't shine. I'm confident of that. Nobody is asking for an end so high-sec pvp or some ridiculous thing like that. Suicide ganking is just completely broken and imbalanced and every intelligent person knows it.

I've never done any suicide ganking. Ganking in lowsec, sure. Wormhole eviction, yes. But never any suicide ganking.

That said, without suicide ganking highsec would be a dull and boring place. A grind without dangers. Cause there are no dangers in HS space apart from suicide ganking. Suicide ganking is the spice in HS life.

It doesn't matter, why someone is into suicide ganking. Whatever the reason, he is rending you a service. It doesn't matter how good he is in... errm, whatever you think is good PvP. As long as he's there to create risk, to create danger. That's a suicide gankers purpose.

I agree it's not the best thing to be selective and pick rookies as targets. But apart from that everyone is fair game. Why should casual players be entitled to a different treatment? What is even a casual player in New Eden but a person with a below average amount of available playtime? Why should such a player be special?

Now it may be there are things, that need tweaking. But certainly not more than that.


I'm not going to leave a rookie alone just because they're a rookie... how are they supposed to learn?

That said, I don't go out of my way to target rookies. At least with suicide ganks, all non-compliant miners are fair game.

With other things I do I try to avoid going after young players.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist