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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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Devils Embrace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3381 - 2014-09-02 05:24:47 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


And again - just like warp scrambling is a crime, using bumping to render a ship unable to warp, which is the functional equivalent, SHOULD be a crime.


No it shouldn't.

It is laughably easy to avoid and if you do get bumped there are several very easy ways to get out of it.


Warp scrambling is also easy to avoid. Blow up the scram...get out before they lock, move out of range, have friends bump them out of range. Do we care? Do we not have CONCORD punishing for restricting mobility because its easy to avoid?


I don't care how you try to word this terrible idea of yours.

Protection of your ship is up to you, bumping is not an aggressive mechanic and is easily avoided. Concord will not protect you from your own incompetence.


Except they will protect you from your incompetence in getting scrammed, right? And why is my idea terrible? Please give me your horrible scenario.


Scenario: Ganker shoots you, you die(maybe). CONCORD shows up and kill ganker(guaranteed). You warps away(maybe).

It's like they usually say about fantasy MMO's and men playing female characters: "If I'm going to spend alot of time watching this character, it might as well have a good looking ass".
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3382 - 2014-09-02 05:25:13 UTC
Devils Embrace wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Wouldn't it just be quicker to warp off if the WTs are coming?
But then you don't get to blow them up if it turns out you can take them.

Quote:
All the groups you gave serve a police-like function, they enforce laws.
No. None of them do, because none of them are law enforcement agencies or officials. And that's the whole point you're missing: just because you police something or serve a police-like function does not make you police or what you do law enforcement.


Not getting your scenario...so you spawn CONCORD and now can't be bumped...you wait for the WT's to come (presumable you align away since you may want to run). They show up....and now you can instawarp...but you could do that anyway...they will never have time to bump you....and anyway why would they bother? It's much quicker to just scram you....again your parade of horribles is breaking down.....

I would be thrilled of CONCORD would act like hall monitors, the UN, or parking attendants. These people do more than just hand out fines. They also take necessary action to enforce the laws and accomplish their duties. A hall monitor who sees Student A beating up Student B would not just give them both tickets for being out of class and go home, he would break the fight up. Ditto for the UN. And the parking attendant would also enforce other laws in his jurisdiction.


Veers, are you braindead? Concord would be the hall attendant. He shows up AFTER it starts.


I have no idea what you are saying. Of course CONCORD shows up after it starts. Where did I ask for CONCORD to be prophylactic? I literally have no idea what you are trying to say.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3383 - 2014-09-02 05:26:17 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
You completely failed to give a scenario where this would be problematic.

Incorrect. You just didn't understand it — as always — and said so very clearly.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3384 - 2014-09-02 05:26:25 UTC




Scenario: Ganker shoots you, you die(maybe). CONCORD shows up and kill ganker(guaranteed). You warps away(maybe). [/quote]

And therefore what? all I've done is make it so that post CONCORD showing up you can't be bumped....where is the problem here?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3385 - 2014-09-02 05:26:36 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

They will come and blow up the pointers. My solution replicates that, in that they come and "release" the point, allowing you to warp off. Now what is the horrible downside to this?


Because it means CCP is protecting you rather than you protecting yourself.

Do you even know why freighters are bumped?
Devils Embrace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3386 - 2014-09-02 05:26:44 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


Except they will protect you from your incompetence in getting scrammed, right? And why is my idea terrible? Please give me your horrible scenario.


No, they wont. Concord will not stop people from pointing you.




They will come and blow up the pointers. My solution replicates that, in that they come and "release" the point, allowing you to warp off. Now what is the horrible downside to this?


Your solution changes game mechanics that dont need to be changed. EVE is a dark and gritty universe. You want "protection", go play "Hello Kitty Online Adventures". Get over it!

It's like they usually say about fantasy MMO's and men playing female characters: "If I'm going to spend alot of time watching this character, it might as well have a good looking ass".
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3387 - 2014-09-02 05:27:31 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
You completely failed to give a scenario where this would be problematic.

Incorrect. You just didn't understand it — as always — and said so very clearly.


Nice try, your scenario completely broke down and my idea had no unintended effects.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3388 - 2014-09-02 05:28:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

They will come and blow up the pointers. My solution replicates that, in that they come and "release" the point, allowing you to warp off. Now what is the horrible downside to this?


Because it means CCP is protecting you rather than you protecting yourself.

Do you even know why freighters are bumped?


Yes, to stop the from aligning and warping off. And when CCP comes and blows up people scramming you, isnt that CCP protecting you rather than you protecting yourself?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3389 - 2014-09-02 05:30:48 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Veers Belvar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

They will come and blow up the pointers. My solution replicates that, in that they come and "release" the point, allowing you to warp off. Now what is the horrible downside to this?


Because it means CCP is protecting you rather than you protecting yourself.

Do you even know why freighters are bumped?


Yes, to stop the from aligning and warping off.


Wrong.

They are still able to warp off if they use a web or warp to a celestial or safe or to a ship that is in front of them. They are bumped to get them away from the gate guns and navy ships on the gate.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3390 - 2014-09-02 05:30:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Veers Belvar wrote:
Yes, to stop the from aligning and warping off.
But why? (They can still align and warp off, by the way).
e: aw… he gave away the answer. Cry

Quote:
And when CCP comes and blows up people scramming you, isnt that CCP protecting you rather than you protecting yourself?
No.

Quote:
Nice try, your scenario completely broke down and my idea had no unintended effects.
Incorrect on both counts. What actually happened is that you didn't understand what the effects were and projected your cognitive breakdown onto me.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3391 - 2014-09-02 05:33:42 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

They will come and blow up the pointers. My solution replicates that, in that they come and "release" the point, allowing you to warp off. Now what is the horrible downside to this?


Because it means CCP is protecting you rather than you protecting yourself.

Do you even know why freighters are bumped?


Yes, to stop the from aligning and warping off.


Wrong.

They are still able to warp off if they use a web or warp to a celestial or safe or to a ship that is in front of them. They are bumped to get them away from the gate guns and navy ships on the gate.


If they could just warp off to a celestial bumping would be pretty pointless, right? No one would do it. Obviously it is done in such a way that you want have time to align and reach the threshold speed to warp to a celestial.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3392 - 2014-09-02 05:35:36 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:


If they could just warp off to a celestial bumping would be pretty pointless, right? No one would do it. Obviously it is done in such a way that you want have time to align and reach the threshold speed to warp to a celestial.


People are stupid
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3393 - 2014-09-02 05:37:11 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
If they could just warp off to a celestial bumping would be pretty pointless, right?
No. It would still serve the exact same point as it does now. After all, that's why people do it.

If it also keeps some incompetent pilots from warping off, then that's just an unintentional (and hilarious) bonus.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3394 - 2014-09-02 05:37:33 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


If they could just warp off to a celestial bumping would be pretty pointless, right? No one would do it. Obviously it is done in such a way that you want have time to align and reach the threshold speed to warp to a celestial.


People are stupid


That stupid? In 15 mins of being bumped they couldn't muster the basic competence to click on a nearby celestial and press "warp to." You really believe that? And anyhow I tried telling an Orca pilot to do it in Uedama, and he said he kept trying but the bumping made it impossible, so I don't think that is foolproof at all.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3395 - 2014-09-02 05:37:57 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


If they could just warp off to a celestial bumping would be pretty pointless, right? No one would do it. Obviously it is done in such a way that you want have time to align and reach the threshold speed to warp to a celestial.


People are stupid

Exactly... Pilots that don't even understand the basic game mechanics. They make easy kills though
Devils Embrace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3396 - 2014-09-02 05:39:02 UTC
Not just people, the combative poster that doesnt understand game mechanics is STUPID.

It's like they usually say about fantasy MMO's and men playing female characters: "If I'm going to spend alot of time watching this character, it might as well have a good looking ass".
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3397 - 2014-09-02 05:39:31 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
That stupid? In 15 mins of being bumped they couldn't muster the basic competence to click on a nearby celestial and press "warp to."
You're finally getting it.
Do you understand how why your “experience” was disqualified as pretty much worthless and irrelevant to the discussion?

Quote:
And anyhow I tried telling an Orca pilot to do it in Uedama, and he said he kept trying but the bumping made it impossible, so I don't think that is foolproof at all.
What happened is that you met the proverbial bigger fool.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3398 - 2014-09-02 05:43:13 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
That stupid? In 15 mins of being bumped they couldn't muster the basic competence to click on a nearby celestial and press "warp to."
You're finally getting it.
Do you understand how why your “experience” was disqualified as pretty much worthless and irrelevant to the discussion?

Quote:
And anyhow I tried telling an Orca pilot to do it in Uedama, and he said he kept trying but the bumping made it impossible, so I don't think that is foolproof at all.
What happened is that you met the proverbial bigger fool.


I'm just not seeing it guys, and it really is a question for CCP. Whether an optimally piloted freighter can always manage to warp off during 15 minutes of bumping by 3 optimally fitted and piloted Machariels. I really don't think the answer is "yes." I can't fathom that so many freighter pilots would be so stupid as to miss a trivial way of avoiding the bumping and saving their ship. I think it's a whole lot tougher to do than you are claiming.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3399 - 2014-09-02 05:45:59 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
I'm just not seeing it guys
Then open your eyes. It's not any more complicated than that.

Quote:
it really is a question for CCP. Whether an optimally piloted freighter can always manage to warp off during 15 minutes of bumping by 3 optimally fitted and piloted Machariels.
It's not a question for them, because the answer is obvious: yes. The mechanics say so, experience says so, in fact, everything says so. Trying to appeal to a “higher power” to change the fact of the matter will not work.

Quote:
I really don't think the answer is "yes." I can't fathom that so many freighter pilots would be so stupid as to miss a trivial way of avoiding the bumping and saving their ship.
Welcome to highsec. The answer is not any more complicated than that. If you think otherwise, the only solution is for you to stop. Breaking the game certainly won't solve the problem.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3400 - 2014-09-02 05:48:02 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
I'm just not seeing it guys
Then open your eyes. It's not any more complicated than that.

Quote:
it really is a question for CCP. Whether an optimally piloted freighter can always manage to warp off during 15 minutes of bumping by 3 optimally fitted and piloted Machariels.
It's not a question for them, because the answer is obvious: yes. The mechanics say so, experience says so, in fact, everything says so. Trying to appeal to a “higher power” to change the fact of the matter will not work.

Quote:
I really don't think the answer is "yes." I can't fathom that so many freighter pilots would be so stupid as to miss a trivial way of avoiding the bumping and saving their ship.
Welcome to highsec. The answer is not any more complicated than that. If you think otherwise, the only solution is for you to stop. Breaking the game certainly won't solve the problem.


And again from you...merely asserting that X is true, without proving it, and with significant evidence to the contrary, does not make it true.