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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3321 - 2014-09-02 04:24:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
IIshira wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen... Can someone point out what all three had in common?

I can spot something else that's interesting: two were anti-tanked and two did not create any CONCORD losses. P

e: speling iss gud.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3322 - 2014-09-02 04:24:05 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
why would you gank an empty ship?


Think about what you just asked...

If I'm sitting on a gate in lowsec and someone comes through with a hauler do I scan or convo the guy and ask if his cargo is worth me killing? No it's called PVP and Eve is a PVP game so I blow him up! No one would ask why did I kill this poor innocent person.

Change this to highsec and I'm a mean "Ganker" This is because some people think highsec should be or is PVP free. It's not and hopefully never will be! If I can kill a one billion ISK freighter who made himself an easy target by auto piloting with no tank... Why not?




And what I'm saying is that by adjusting the risk/reward mechanics we can make it so that the gankers look for high value kills instead of blowing up empty ships, which I think is a more logical form of gameplay. It just requires some creativity and changes to the game mechanics.


But you're forgetting that all ganks aren't for the cargo...

You know what though.. Freighter pilots already have something to control the risk of being gaked. It's called fitting a tank.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#3323 - 2014-09-02 04:24:54 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Veers Belvar wrote:
I disagree, sorry. I think that CONCORD should react to wrongful activity in highsec as they would be expected to respond - mainly by helping the victim. It's not just some random isk sink there to blow ships up.


Except that that is exactly what CONCORD is. It is a game mechanic designed to impose a cost on illegal aggression in HS. That's it.

PEND's uninsured payout is the limit of NPC Victim's services in EVE.

Veers Belvar wrote:
And what I'm saying is that by adjusting the risk/reward mechanics we can make it so that the gankers look for high value kills instead of blowing up empty ships, which I think is a more logical form of gameplay. It just requires some creativity and changes to the game mechanics.


They do look for high value kills. They very rarely kill empty ships, and when they do, they do it for roleplaying purposes.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3324 - 2014-09-02 04:26:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Veers Belvar wrote:
And what I'm saying is that by adjusting the risk/reward mechanics we can make it so that the gankers look for high value kills instead of blowing up empty ships
Why should they?

Quote:
It's not just some random isk sink there to blow ships up.
This is in every way the exact opposite of what they're there for. They are only there to make people lose ISK by blowing up their ships. That is their only purpose. They are also not an ISK sink. The only part you got right was that they are not random.

Quote:
I think that CONCORD should react to wrongful activity in highsec as they would be expected to respond - mainly by helping the victim
That is — very explicitly and deliberately — not what CONCORD is for. That role has been given to players, and at no point will NPCs ever be created to take a player's job.
Devils Embrace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3325 - 2014-09-02 04:28:43 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

How is this any different than what is currently accomplished by shooting at yourself?


He really is this stupid, folks.

Ok, since you can't find both of your brains cells to rub together and figure it out, I will spell it out for you. I'll try to use small words.

Your idea lets a ship have an immunity period alongside an insta warp, if a gank fails.

So I deliberately fail a gank against myself with an alt, any time I am in danger.

And I am thus invincible.

Congratulations, you broke quite literally the entire game.

Oh, and civility is given to civilized people. Not thumbless, ignorant monkeys.


WRONG...... my idea is to grant invicibility against bumping, AND ONLY AGAINST BUMPING. Clear now? Why do you insist on distorting what I say? I mean come on, that was pretty darn clear.

And feel free to stop calling me "stupid," thanks.


As in real life the police must first be called.....they dont magically appear when something bad happens. It takes time "heimskur"

Concord is kinda like the real police...they prevent nothing and never show up until someone's already dead
bio worthy **** right there

It's like they usually say about fantasy MMO's and men playing female characters: "If I'm going to spend alot of time watching this character, it might as well have a good looking ass".
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#3326 - 2014-09-02 04:28:50 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

WRONG...... my idea is to grant invicibility against bumping, AND ONLY AGAINST BUMPING. Clear now? Why do you insist on distorting what I say? I mean come on, that was pretty darn clear.

And feel free to stop calling me "stupid," thanks.



No, numbskull, actually read it for five freaking seconds. The instant warping part of your suggestion grants me immunity to being scrammed by a war target too.

All I have to do is blap my own freighter, I get my 60 seconds of instant warp just like you said, and poof, I instantly disappear into the nearest station. Immune to war targets, too.

If you want people to have a better estimate of your intelligence, you need to stop saying such staggeringly unintelligent things.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3327 - 2014-09-02 04:30:06 UTC
Tippia wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen... Can someone point out what all three had in common?

I can stop something else that's interesting: two were anti-tanked and two did not create any CONCORD losses. P


You win...

I think this "Highsec should be safe from PVP" idea is just silly.

People please stop being silly! Properly fit your ships with a tank... Don't go AFK or autopilot in dangerous systems.. A few simple things and lots of tears could be avoide.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3328 - 2014-09-02 04:30:48 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
And what I'm saying is that by adjusting the risk/reward mechanics we can make it so that the gankers look for high value kills instead of blowing up empty ships
Why should they?

Quote:
It's not just some random isk sink there to blow ships up.
This is in every way the exact opposite of what they're there for. They are only there to make people lose ISK by blowing up their ships. That is their only purpose. They are also not an ISK sink. The only part you got right was that they are not random.

Quote:
I think that CONCORD should react to wrongful activity in highsec as they would be expected to respond - mainly by helping the victim
That is — very explicitly and deliberately — not what CONCORD is for. That role has been given to players, and at no point will NPCs ever be created to take a player's job.


I think its important to clear this up - let's examine the quote by CCP Falcon-

"CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive."


Concord is analogized to both a police force and a law enforcement agency - they are not just some arbitrary isk sink.

Now imagine CONCORD is not a police force, let's say they are just McDonalds workers - try the sentence now

"McDonalds workers offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive."

Doesn't make sense now, right? Why? Because McDonalds workers are not a "law enforcement agency" and not a "police force."

Literally, the sentence only makes sense if CONCORD is both a police force and a law enforcement agency - its literally unreadable otherwise.

QED
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3329 - 2014-09-02 04:32:06 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

WRONG...... my idea is to grant invicibility against bumping, AND ONLY AGAINST BUMPING. Clear now? Why do you insist on distorting what I say? I mean come on, that was pretty darn clear.

And feel free to stop calling me "stupid," thanks.



No, numbskull, actually read it for five freaking seconds. The instant warping part of your suggestion grants me immunity to being scrammed by a war target too.

All I have to do is blap my own freighter, I get my 60 seconds of instant warp just like you said, and poof, I instantly disappear into the nearest station. Immune to war targets, too.

If you want people to have a better estimate of your intelligence, you need to stop saying such staggeringly unintelligent things.



Wrong - the instawarp would not apply if you are scrammed. All it means is that bumping can not stop you from warping. The war target would have locked you up and scrammed you long before CONCORD showed up. Calling people names won't make up for shoddy argumentation.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3330 - 2014-09-02 04:33:32 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

WRONG...... my idea is to grant invicibility against bumping, AND ONLY AGAINST BUMPING. Clear now? Why do you insist on distorting what I say? I mean come on, that was pretty darn clear.

And feel free to stop calling me "stupid," thanks.



No, numbskull, actually read it for five freaking seconds. The instant warping part of your suggestion grants me immunity to being scrammed by a war target too.

All I have to do is blap my own freighter, I get my 60 seconds of instant warp just like you said, and poof, I instantly disappear into the nearest station. Immune to war targets, too.

If you want people to have a better estimate of your intelligence, you need to stop saying such staggeringly unintelligent things.


You're asking for a logical argument rather than silliness. This is the same guy that follows CODE wherever they go to troll them in local... It's quite funny. I sat in the system while they were ganking just to get a laugh.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#3331 - 2014-09-02 04:34:30 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

Wrong - the instawarp would not apply if you are scrammed. All it means is that bumping can not stop you from warping. The war target would have locked you up and scrammed you long before CONCORD showed up. Calling people names won't make up for shoddy argumentation.


Oh, my Great Good God Above, you have to be kidding me with this.

The instawarp would let me get away long, long before they scrammed me.

Get it yet, imbecile?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3332 - 2014-09-02 04:35:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Veers Belvar wrote:
I think its important to clear this up - let's examine the quote by CCP Falcon-

"CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive."
In other words, they share two characteristics with a law enforcement agency: they provide a deterrent and they are reactive. This does not mean that they are one.

The operative word missing is “other”. Be it “the same as any other law enforcement agency” or “as with any other police”. Without that word, they are not in the same class — they just have shared characteristics with the class. There's a reason why I said that your linguistic insight was insufficient and getting you into trouble. Words have meaning — a small word can make all the difference in the world.

Quote:
Concord is analogized to both a police force and a law enforcement agency - they are not just some arbitrary isk sink.
No. CONCORD's response (and the reason for that response) is simply compared with the law. They are an arbitrary cost enforcement mechanism — that's how they offer a deterrent.

Quote:
Literally, the sentence only makes sense if CONCORD is both a police force and a law enforcement agency - its literally unreadable otherwise.
Incorrect. The sentence makes sense if CONCORD is a cost enforcement mechanism that happens after a gank rather than before it: it creates a deterrent through punitive and reactive measures. As it happens, that is exactly what CONCORD is and what it does and why it does it. All without being a police force. Fancy that.

By the way, you do know that EVE has a police force, right? In fact, it has numerous police forces. They fight crime. They also have those characteristics by virtue of being within that class.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3333 - 2014-09-02 04:36:44 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:


I disagree, sorry. I think that CONCORD should react to wrongful activity in highsec as they would be expected to respond - mainly by helping the victim. It's not just some random isk sink there to blow ships up.


Again, protection of your assets is up to you, not CCP. It is laughably easy to stop people from bumping your ship.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3334 - 2014-09-02 04:39:59 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

Wrong - the instawarp would not apply if you are scrammed. All it means is that bumping can not stop you from warping. The war target would have locked you up and scrammed you long before CONCORD showed up. Calling people names won't make up for shoddy argumentation.


Oh, my Great Good God Above, you have to be kidding me with this.

The instawarp would let me get away long, long before they scrammed me.

Get it yet, imbecile?


I'm very confused by you. And stop with the name calling, its pretty pathetic.

The instawarp only starts once CONCORD shows up...not once you get shot at. So here is the scenario, you warp into Uedama with your Charon....let's say you are at war with Goons....you see Baltec1 in a Tornado....you panic and start cursing...so you have mr. alt shoot you to draw CONCORD, it takes them 8 seconds to show up. Baltec1 locks you and scrams you. CONCORD shows up, you are now immune from bumping. But you are scrammed, so you can't warp, and now you die. That is my vision. How does your differ?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3335 - 2014-09-02 04:41:54 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
The instawarp only starts once CONCORD shows up...not once you get shot at.
…and that lets you do exactly what he describes. This is bad thing. Your idea is bad. It also does not solve anything. It is trying to “fix” a problem that doesn't even exist.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3336 - 2014-09-02 04:42:53 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
I think its important to clear this up - let's examine the quote by CCP Falcon-

"CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive."
In other words, they share two characteristics with a law enforcement agency: they provide a deterrent and they are reactive. This does not mean that they are one.

The operative word missing is “other”. Be it “the same as any other law enforcement agency” or “as with any other police”. Without that word, they are not in the same class — they just have shared characteristics with the class. There's a reason why I said that your linguistic insight was insufficient and getting you into trouble. Words have meaning — a small word can make all the difference in the world.

Quote:
Concord is analogized to both a police force and a law enforcement agency - they are not just some arbitrary isk sink.
No. CONCORD's response (and the reason for that response) is simply compared with the law. They are an arbitrary cost enforcement mechanism — that's how they offer a deterrent.

Quote:
Literally, the sentence only makes sense if CONCORD is both a police force and a law enforcement agency - its literally unreadable otherwise.
Incorrect. The sentence makes sense if CONCORD is a cost enforcement mechanism that happens after a gank rather than before it: it creates a deterrent through punitive and reactive measures. As it happens, that is exactly what CONCORD is and what it does and why it does it. All without being a police force. Fancy that.

By the way, you do know that EVE has a police force, right? In fact, it has numerous police forces. They fight crime. They also have those characteristics by virtue of being within that class.


"other" is not a required word in that sentence. In your view CCP Falcon should have said "CONCORD is not a police force at all. They are not in highsec to protect you. They are merely an isk-sink that destroy ships that commit a criminal act subsequent to such act occurring. Go protect yourselves." The fact that he did not say that strongly suggests that CONCORD is in fact viewed as a law enforcement agency (which is exactly what they do - enforce the laws, and punish criminals).
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3337 - 2014-09-02 04:43:39 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
The instawarp only starts once CONCORD shows up...not once you get shot at.
…and that lets you do exactly what he describes. This is bad thing. Your idea is bad. It also does not solve anything. It is trying to “fix” a problem that doesn't even exist.


I'm not seeing it...please lay out the scenario....remember that if you are scrammed before CONCORD arrives, their arrival won't make a difference.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#3338 - 2014-09-02 04:44:29 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
The instawarp only starts once CONCORD shows up...not once you get shot at.
…and that lets you do exactly what he describes. This is bad thing. Your idea is bad. It also does not solve anything. It is trying to “fix” a problem that doesn't even exist.


Yeah, at this point he has been moved from the "persistent bad troll" file into the "completely un-salvageable, utterly without merit" file.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3339 - 2014-09-02 04:45:42 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
The instawarp only starts once CONCORD shows up...not once you get shot at.
…and that lets you do exactly what he describes. This is bad thing. Your idea is bad. It also does not solve anything. It is trying to “fix” a problem that doesn't even exist.


Yeah, at this point he has been moved from the "persistent bad troll" file into the "completely un-salvageable, utterly without merit" file.



Uh-huh, distort what I say and the call it trolling. Good luck to you, i'll prefer to engage with other people who actually are looking for reasoned discussion.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3340 - 2014-09-02 04:46:10 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:


"other" is not a required word in that sentence. In your view CCP Falcon should have said "CONCORD is not a police force at all. They are not in highsec to protect you. They are merely an isk-sink that destroy ships that commit a criminal act subsequent to such act occurring. Go protect yourselves." The fact that he did not say that strongly suggests that CONCORD is in fact viewed as a law enforcement agency (which is exactly what they do - enforce the laws, and punish criminals).


Stop twisting his words.

He said that concord are like police because they do not protect, they punish after the event has happened.