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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#3161 - 2014-09-01 21:16:03 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Our own records. Data can be found on zkill.

Ganking freighters might be up from 2 months ago but it is still down from last year. Barge ganking when compared to 3 years ago is also dramatically lower.


Are you able to share this data? I'm not sure if you talking about absolute numbers, relative frequency, etc.... Also, it should be easy enough for you to check of the number of freighters blown up in the last 2 month has been increasing...a lot of people here seem to doubt it.


As he said, historical data on Freighter kills can be found here:
https://zkillboard.com/kills/freighters/

Nobody's going to do your job for you. You made the claim, you provide the evidence to support it.


Gee....or we could ask the person who already did the work to just share the final product with us. I'm sure the Goons would be happy to help us make Eve a better place.


They're not making any claims. You are. Which means it's your job to provide evidence to support your claims.

If I claim Coca-Cola is made of Cheese, I don't get to insist that the Coca-Cola Company release the recipe in order to disprove my claim.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Solecist Project
#3162 - 2014-09-01 21:18:07 UTC
*sibs peppermint tea*

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#3163 - 2014-09-01 21:18:52 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
they are also in love with fatigue wearing cigar smoking dictators.


Patria o Muerte Venceremos

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3164 - 2014-09-01 21:20:25 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Our own records. Data can be found on zkill.

Ganking freighters might be up from 2 months ago but it is still down from last year. Barge ganking when compared to 3 years ago is also dramatically lower.


Are you able to share this data? I'm not sure if you talking about absolute numbers, relative frequency, etc.... Also, it should be easy enough for you to check of the number of freighters blown up in the last 2 month has been increasing...a lot of people here seem to doubt it.


As he said, historical data on Freighter kills can be found here:
https://zkillboard.com/kills/freighters/

Nobody's going to do your job for you. You made the claim, you provide the evidence to support it.


Gee....or we could ask the person who already did the work to just share the final product with us. I'm sure the Goons would be happy to help us make Eve a better place.


They're not making any claims. You are. Which means it's your job to provide evidence to support your claims.

If I claim Coca-Cola is made of Cheese, I don't get to insist that the Coca-Cola Company release the recipe in order to disprove my claim.


Yes, and I provided strong circumstantial evidence for it. I am not required to spend 300 hours manually tabulating the hard numbers, especially when ze Goons have already done so, but won't release the numbers.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#3165 - 2014-09-01 21:22:27 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:


They're not making any claims. You are. Which means it's your job to provide evidence to support your claims.

If I claim Coca-Cola is made of Cheese, I don't get to insist that the Coca-Cola Company release the recipe in order to disprove my claim.


Yes, and I provided strong circumstantial evidence for it. I am not required to spend 300 hours manually tabulating the hard numbers, especially when ze Goons have already done so, but won't release the numbers.
And your circumstantial evidence means absolutely nothing and isn't worth anyone's time to take seriously.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#3166 - 2014-09-01 21:22:31 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

Yes, and I provided strong circumstantial evidence for it.


>>File Not Found

>>Load New Commander? Y/N

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#3167 - 2014-09-01 21:24:36 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Yes, and I provided strong circumstantial evidence for it. I am not required to spend 300 hours manually tabulating the hard numbers, especially when ze Goons have already done so, but won't release the numbers.
Your circumstantial evidence points to precisely zip, nada, nothing.

If you want to make spurious claims then it is up to you to do the legwork to prove them. The data is public, get to it.

Make sure that your evidence has graphs, we like graphs.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Mag's
Azn Empire
#3168 - 2014-09-01 21:25:45 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Make sure that your evidence has graphs, we like graphs.
This.

We must have graphs.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3169 - 2014-09-01 21:26:45 UTC
Quote:


Plus as has already been said to you. If you make the claim, then it's your job to back it up with factual evidence. I.E. not circumstantial. You have the date it's public, use it. Also as I already asked even if for arguments sake it turns out there was in increase in the last 2 months. What does this mean and why should we care?


I already sourced my conclusions, please look back in the thread. As for why it matters, I think it ties back to the OP of this whole thread, where a player noted that freighter ganks were increasing, and that even empty freighters were being hit. CCP, with its recent freighter changes, seemed to want to give freighter pilots more ability to protect their ships. The fact that even after doing so more of them are going down is definitely something to be noted. While I personally don't fly freighters, and am not directly affected by this (though if things were safer I would consider getting into hauling), I do interact with a lot of freighter pilots, and am hearing a lot of pain and consternation from their end. After discussing some of the episodes, I identified a few mechanics that I think are contributing to the recent escalation. These include the absue of bumping, the lack of consequences for -10 sec status, the ability to mount large guns on battlecruisers (our beloved Talos), and others. I think it makes sense for CCP to examine this, and decide if the current balance is right. An no, I'm not secretly a freighter alt, or a CODE alt, or some other crazy thing, I'm just someone who wants to help everyone, including the much maligned "carebears" enjoy the game.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#3170 - 2014-09-01 21:26:55 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Yes, and I provided strong circumstantial evidence for it. I am not required to spend 300 hours manually tabulating the hard numbers, especially when ze Goons have already done so, but won't release the numbers.


You have provided no such thing. You haven't even presented evidence of a trend over the short term.

And again, it won't take 300 hours, you don't have to manually tabulate it, and the amount of effort it might or might not take to provide evidence for your claims has no bearing on your obligation to provide the evidence.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#3171 - 2014-09-01 21:27:05 UTC
it's been three hours since i saw my last graph

i'm getting antsy
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Doomheim
#3172 - 2014-09-01 21:28:32 UTC
Funny that some people are still demanding hard evidence to claims of increased ganking activity, implying that things are not considered a problem if their frequency is low, and ignoring all the other issues surrounding the activity.

Is this the best you guys have got? Roll

I applaud Veers continued attempts to educate those less fortunate. It seems a lost cause to me, but I'm sure that any thinking person can see the multitude of ways they discredit themselves and won't be taken seriously by any CCP employees should they continue to spout more anecdotal evidence and victim-blaming concerning suicide ganking.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#3173 - 2014-09-01 21:28:35 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Quote:


Plus as has already been said to you. If you make the claim, then it's your job to back it up with factual evidence. I.E. not circumstantial. You have the date it's public, use it. Also as I already asked even if for arguments sake it turns out there was in increase in the last 2 months. What does this mean and why should we care?


I already sourced my conclusions, please look back in the thread. As for why it matters, I think it ties back to the OP of this whole thread, where a player noted that freighter ganks were increasing, and that even empty freighters were being hit. CCP, with its recent freighter changes, seemed to want to give freighter pilots more ability to protect their ships. The fact that even after doing so more of them are going down is definitely something to be noted. While I personally don't fly freighters, and am not directly affected by this (though if things were safer I would consider getting into hauling), I do interact with a lot of freighter pilots, and am hearing a lot of pain and consternation from their end. After discussing some of the episodes, I identified a few mechanics that I think are contributing to the recent escalation. These include the absue of bumping, the lack of consequences for -10 sec status, the ability to mount large guns on battlecruisers (our beloved Talos), and others. I think it makes sense for CCP to examine this, and decide if the current balance is right. An no, I'm not secretly a freighter alt, or a CODE alt, or some other crazy thing, I'm just someone who wants to help everyone, including the much maligned "carebears" enjoy the game.
Then get some facts together and we'll talk. So far you've given us nothing.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#3174 - 2014-09-01 21:28:42 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
the ability to mount large guns on battlecruisers (our beloved Talos)


FYI The expansion that added Tier 3 BCs dramatically increased the cost of ganking. Check the patch notes to see why.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3175 - 2014-09-01 21:29:32 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Yes, and I provided strong circumstantial evidence for it. I am not required to spend 300 hours manually tabulating the hard numbers, especially when ze Goons have already done so, but won't release the numbers.


You have provided no such thing. You haven't even presented evidence of a trend over the short term.

And again, it won't take 300 hours, you don't have to manually tabulate it, and the amount of effort it might or might not take to provide evidence for your claims has no bearing on your obligation to provide the evidence.


If you want it so badly feel free to convince our local Goon here to provide it, or consider sending a personal mail to The Mittani.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#3176 - 2014-09-01 21:29:44 UTC
I think ganking has completely stopped

My basis for this is that

A) I wasnt ganked last night

B) No one I know was ganked

C) Im not being ganked now

Unfortunately I cant provide any factual evidence for this because Grr Gewns, but my circumstantial evidence is very compelling.

I demand that something be done, CCP.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#3177 - 2014-09-01 21:30:03 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
After discussing some of the episodes, I identified a few mechanics that I think are contributing to the recent escalation.

there is no recent escalation and if there is there's no evidence it's a problem. if it was a problem, there no reason to suppose game mechanics are at fault.

pony up on the graphs buster
Mag's
Azn Empire
#3178 - 2014-09-01 21:31:00 UTC
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:
Funny that some people are still demanding hard evidence to claims of increased ganking activity, implying that things are not considered a problem if their frequency is low, and ignoring all the other issues surrounding the activity.

Is this the best you guys have got? Roll

I applaud Veers continued attempts to educate those less fortunate. It seems a lost cause to me, but I'm sure that any thinking person can see the multitude of ways they discredit themselves and won't be taken seriously by any CCP employees should they continue to spout more anecdotal evidence and victim-blaming concerning suicide ganking.
If it's part of the game and the frequency of the activity is low, then yes there could be a problem. There is quite obviously not enough of that activity happening.

So how do you propose fixing this issue and increasing ganking?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#3179 - 2014-09-01 21:31:14 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Veers Belvar wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Yes, and I provided strong circumstantial evidence for it. I am not required to spend 300 hours manually tabulating the hard numbers, especially when ze Goons have already done so, but won't release the numbers.


You have provided no such thing. You haven't even presented evidence of a trend over the short term.

And again, it won't take 300 hours, you don't have to manually tabulate it, and the amount of effort it might or might not take to provide evidence for your claims has no bearing on your obligation to provide the evidence.


If you want it so badly feel free to convince our local Goon here to provide it, or consider sending a personal mail to The Mittani.


I'm not making any claims. You are.

You are saying:
"Ganking has increased"
Everyone here is saying:
"Prove it"

Since you're unable to do so, it's quite safe to conclude that you're making things up out of whole cloth.

Or do you also believe that Coca-Cola is made out of Cheese?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3180 - 2014-09-01 21:34:24 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Yes, and I provided strong circumstantial evidence for it. I am not required to spend 300 hours manually tabulating the hard numbers, especially when ze Goons have already done so, but won't release the numbers.


You have provided no such thing. You haven't even presented evidence of a trend over the short term.

And again, it won't take 300 hours, you don't have to manually tabulate it, and the amount of effort it might or might not take to provide evidence for your claims has no bearing on your obligation to provide the evidence.


If you want it so badly feel free to convince our local Goon here to provide it, or consider sending a personal mail to The Mittani.


I'm not making any claims. You are.

You are saying:
"Ganking has increased"
Everyone here is saying:
"Prove it"

Since you're unable to do so, it's quite safe to conclude that you're making things up out of whole cloth.


And I provided you with multiple pieces of information supporting my conclusion, including CODE's killboard, the minerbumping.com website, my intel channels, the increased complaints by freighter pilots on the forums here, and my personal observations and experiences. I'm sorry if any evidence that does not include graphs carries no weight with you, but believe it not we can adjudge things to be true with neither data nor graphs, when necessary.