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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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admiral root
Red Galaxy
#3081 - 2014-09-01 19:34:34 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
[quote=baltec1]Requires webbers (who the gankers are happy to shoot first), may be unable to align to the celestial, and may be unable to align to the interceptor.


Wow, you really have no idea what you're talking about, do you? I often fly a rapier with friends freighters and they've yet to be bumped or ganked. They go to warp as close to instantly as the server allows, making them ungankable aside from sheer bad luck or one of the pilots involved having a temporary case of the dumb.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Solecist Project
#3082 - 2014-09-01 19:34:37 UTC
Alarming?

Do you have evidence that it is indeed alarming?

Do you even know how many freighters are NOT being ganked every day?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#3083 - 2014-09-01 19:36:21 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
these tricks apparently aren't helping, because CODE is blowing freighters up at an alarming clip.


Again, you need to go and educate yourself before commenting. They're not ganking freighters with web support, or even freighters that send a scout through the gate first - they're primarily ganking muppets on autopilot and fraggles who are at the keyboard but can't be bothered to take precautions.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3084 - 2014-09-01 19:37:00 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Veers Belvar wrote:


Requires webbers (who the gankers are happy to shoot first),


This would spawn concord and ruin the gank.

Veers Belvar wrote:

may be unable to align to the celestial, and may be unable to align to the interceptor.


The interceptor moves, move it to where the freighter can warp to it.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#3085 - 2014-09-01 19:37:43 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
CODE is blowing freighters up at an alarming clip.

Except all figures published in this thread alone have said the opposite

Veers Belvar wrote:
CONCORD should react as a competent "law enforcement agency" would, and help free pinned targets.

No they shouldnt. Not their job.

Veers Belvar wrote:
Saying, bring friends, etc.... doesn't line up with the role of CONCORD in highsec, which is to punish criminal conduct.

Not it isnt, its to prevent wars between the Empires and prevent the escalation of Capsuleer conflicts into wars between Empires

Veers Belvar wrote:
And pinning down a target for a gank, whether through warp scrambling or through other means rendering them unable to escape, is, in my view, a criminal act.

It is, which is why Crimewatch marks you as a suspect.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#3086 - 2014-09-01 19:42:35 UTC
Some alarming stats for the past 24 hours:

Jita: 54,053 jumps / 506 ship kills / 0.94%
Niarja: 36,762 jumps / 101 ship kills / 0.28%
Uedama: 36,022 jumps / 79 ship kills / 0.22%

Totals: 126,837 jumps / 686 ship kills / 0.54%

A 0.54% chance of someone blowing up your ship for any reason including, but not limited to, suicide ganking in 3 key systems. Hold me, CCP Falcon, I'm scared!

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Solecist Project
#3087 - 2014-09-01 19:43:02 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Some alarming stats for the past 24 hours:

Jita: 54,053 jumps / 506 ship kills / 0.94%
Niarja: 36,762 jumps / 101 ship kills / 0.28%
Uedama: 36,022 jumps / 79 ship kills / 0.22%

Totals: 126,837 jumps / 686 ship kills / 0.54%

A 0.54% chance of someone blowing up your ship for any reason including, but not limited to, suicide ganking in 3 key systems. Hold me, CCP Falcon, I'm scared!

WE'RE ALL DOOMED!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#3088 - 2014-09-01 19:46:37 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:

WE'RE ALL DOOMED!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59YguFR9iAA

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Solecist Project
#3089 - 2014-09-01 19:46:47 UTC
This thread suddenly slowed down considerably.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#3090 - 2014-09-01 19:47:48 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Some alarming stats for the past 24 hours:

Jita: 54,053 jumps / 506 ship kills / 0.94%
Niarja: 36,762 jumps / 101 ship kills / 0.28%
Uedama: 36,022 jumps / 79 ship kills / 0.22%

Totals: 126,837 jumps / 686 ship kills / 0.54%

A 0.54% chance of someone blowing up your ship for any reason including, but not limited to, suicide ganking in 3 key systems. Hold me, CCP Falcon, I'm scared!


*grabs popcorn*

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Captain Davison
Malachi Keep Detachments
#3091 - 2014-09-01 19:48:15 UTC
Honestly, as a solution to suicide ganking and gankers docking up, I'd really like to see on-foot combat in stations finally implimented. Might take an expansion or two, but we know they have some of the stuff for it. It would bring me no greater joy than to trank the guy who ganked me down to his lair, dock up and grab a rifle, and then chase him down on foot through the station to shoot him in the face for it.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#3092 - 2014-09-01 19:48:46 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
This thread suddenly slowed down considerably.


My bad. I should have kept facts out of general discussion - they have no place here. :)

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#3093 - 2014-09-01 19:49:55 UTC
Captain Davison wrote:
Honestly, as a solution to suicide ganking and gankers docking up, I'd really like to see on-foot combat in stations finally implimented. Might take an expansion or two, but we know they have some of the stuff for it. It would bring me no greater joy than to trank the guy who ganked me down to his lair, dock up and grab a rifle, and then chase him down on foot through the station to shoot him in the face for it.


Why wouldnt he taser you as you came out of your quarters?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Solecist Project
#3094 - 2014-09-01 19:50:29 UTC
Captain Davison wrote:
Honestly, as a solution to suicide ganking and gankers docking up, I'd really like to see on-foot combat in stations finally implimented. Might take an expansion or two, but we know they have some of the stuff for it. It would bring me no greater joy than to trank the guy who ganked me down to his lair, dock up and grab a rifle, and then chase him down on foot through the station to shoot him in the face for it.
The only thing that would come out of this ...
... is that you will get killed by suicide gankers in stations.

Every time carebears wanted ways to fight back ...
... what happened was that they got their balls handed to them even more.



admiral root wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
This thread suddenly slowed down considerably.


My bad. I should have kept facts out of general discussion - they have no place here. :)

Shame yourself! :)

I will, though, keep quoting your post now every time he comes up with his delusional alarming rate.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#3095 - 2014-09-01 19:50:48 UTC
Captain Davison wrote:
Honestly, as a solution to suicide ganking...


The word "solution" implies the existence of a problem. Sure, I guess we could class the low gank numbers as a problem but we'd need a solution that vastly differs from the one you've put forward.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#3096 - 2014-09-01 19:51:00 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Well, as can be seen from the OP post of this thread - these tricks apparently aren't helping,

as can be seen from the op. an anonymous forum posting alt created specifically to complain about the results of freighter nerf.
Lady Areola Fappington
#3097 - 2014-09-01 19:54:20 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:


Well, as can be seen from the OP post of this thread - these tricks apparently aren't helping, because CODE is blowing freighters up at an alarming clip. CONCORD should react as a competent "law enforcement agency" would, and help free pinned targets. Saying, bring friends, etc.... doesn't line up with the role of CONCORD in highsec, which is to punish criminal conduct. And pinning down a target for a gank, whether through warp scrambling or through other means rendering them unable to escape, is, in my view, a criminal act.



Leaving aside the "CODE is destroying the game" line, CCP has explicitly disagreed with every post you've made.

CONCORD is not a law enforcement agency.

Bumping is not a criminal act.

They make the decisions for the game they own, not me, you, baltec, Ramona, James...CCP.

Your opinion, ultimately, does not matter. When a game dev comes right out and says "If it's a choice between removing player interaction and closing, we will choose closing", well, you aren't going to get very far advocating your own views that remove player interaction.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#3098 - 2014-09-01 19:58:32 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Empty freighters is one aspect of that problem as I have already discussed, since CODE is not really affected by the current consequences for suicide ganking.

There is a good explanation why we are not "really affected" by the current consequences. It's what you said in your next sentence, well kinda, i will correct it:

Veers Belvar wrote:
Another aspect of the problem is they way CODE is abusing the game mechanic to make it easier to kill these empty freighters, but pinning them down through bumping.

We "use" the tools provided by the sandbox, there is no "abuse" going on here. Suicide ganking is a valid game mechanic and so are collisions between spaceships. Just because a group of players finds a way to use this tools in a certain way does not mean they are "abusing" the game mechanic. They are playing the game by the rules the game provides.

Veers Belvar wrote:
But yes, resoundingly, suicide ganking, at least as CODE is doing it, is a major problem, and is hurting highsec.

We are a group of players who use the tools of the sandbox and try new strategies to explode other peoples spaceships, for profit , power projection/control or just for fun. We chose an environment which is seen by a lot of players as safe, because they have a wrong concept of what highsec is, a PvP free area, which it isn't. It is a area with a certain kind of rules which was shifted over the years to benefit the careless player and even reinforce the feeling of safety.

The problem with highsec is not that we gank empty freighters, the problem is that CCP reinforced the protection so much that the players there actually feel save to AFK autopilot ships with a value of billions of ISK or even worse with cargo worth in tens of billions. The view of this people got so distorted that they actually think that the few tools left to kill such careless players are an abuse of game mechanics.

There are always people like you who come to this game ignorant about the history and the game mechanics who think their ideas are new and special. They are not, they have been discussed a hundred times and they where not better when they where brought to the table the first time.

Highsec game mechanics have been constantly nerfed for the last 11 years and everytime some guy claims this is the final nerf which will "fix" the game for them. And then the nerf get's implemented, we adopt and the tears start over with a new idea abut a small nerf that will "fix" the game.

I spelled it out many times before and I will do it again just for you. This is not about gankers v.s. carebears, this is about "people who care about game mechanics" v.s. "players who think this is a solo game with a safe zone".

Your strategy did not work for 11 years, there was always a guy like you. Adopt and play with the tools the sandbox provides or play a game which provides a setting you like better (try STO and embrace the boring and meaningless world you try to create in EVE). But just stop wasting everyones time with your unsound ideas and old arguments.

Thanks

Evil RatKid
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#3099 - 2014-09-01 20:03:22 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


Well, as can be seen from the OP post of this thread - these tricks apparently aren't helping, because CODE is blowing freighters up at an alarming clip. CONCORD should react as a competent "law enforcement agency" would, and help free pinned targets. Saying, bring friends, etc.... doesn't line up with the role of CONCORD in highsec, which is to punish criminal conduct. And pinning down a target for a gank, whether through warp scrambling or through other means rendering them unable to escape, is, in my view, a criminal act.



Leaving aside the "CODE is destroying the game" line, CCP has explicitly disagreed with every post you've made.

CONCORD is not a law enforcement agency.

Bumping is not a criminal act.

They make the decisions for the game they own, not me, you, baltec, Ramona, James...CCP.

Your opinion, ultimately, does not matter. When a game dev comes right out and says "If it's a choice between removing player interaction and closing, we will choose closing", well, you aren't going to get very far advocating your own views that remove player interaction.


I'm a bit tied up right now, and will respond to some of the other posts later, but I think this post raises important issues and deserves as a response.

First, as CCP Falcon put it CONCORD responds "as any law enforcement agency."

Bumping is not inherently criminal, but when used to facilitate ganking, it should be dealt with.

You now fall back on the classic suicide ganker response - that any change to suicide ganking will remove player interaction from the game. In essence, the only options are suicide ganking or no suicide ganking, and therefore no changes need be considered. In fact, there are a tremendous number of ways the current mechanics could be tweaked to retain suicide ganking, but to tilt it towards the occasional gankers, and not the -10 sec status career criminal CODE empty freighter gankers. THAT is the point here, not too remove suicide ganking, but to make necessary adjustments to properly balance it in the game.
Solecist Project
#3100 - 2014-09-01 20:05:38 UTC
Except that there are no needs for adjustments,
as there is nothing going on that's alarming in any way.

Just look at the numbers and think about how many ships are NOT getting ganked,
especially how many freighters are NOT getting ganked ...

... every single day.


You are simply obsessed with this and completely delusional.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia