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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2761 - 2014-08-31 02:20:33 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

The fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE for your ship to warp off is a criminal act


It's not impossible to warp off while being bumped. It's actually fairly easy, if you aren't terrible at EVE Online.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#2762 - 2014-08-31 02:24:54 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

The fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE for your ship to warp off is a criminal act


It's not impossible to warp off while being bumped. It's actually fairly easy, if you aren't terrible at EVE Online.


That, as far as a freighter goes, at the very least, is a factually incorrect statement.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2763 - 2014-08-31 02:25:23 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

The fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE for your ship to warp off is a criminal act


It's not impossible to warp off while being bumped. It's actually fairly easy, if you aren't terrible at EVE Online.


That, as far as a freighter goes, at the very least, is a factually incorrect statement.


I've done it myself in the last week. It's not impossible, if you don't suck.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#2764 - 2014-08-31 02:26:11 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Unlawful imprisonment is criminal activity.

…and bumping qualifies as neither of those.

Quote:
The fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE for your ship to warp off is a criminal act
That's not a fact, since it's not impossible to warp off. Nor is it a criminal act to keep someone from warping off.

Quote:
CONCORD is not responding to that is the problem
No, it's not a problem that CONCORD doesn't respond to legal activities.

Quote:
the fact that for 15 minutes your ship is unable to leave the system is by definition unlawful imprisonment, and a criminal act.
None of those are facts, though. And just like CCP Falcon stated, CONCORD acts as a reactive deterrent, so there's nothing strange or inconsistent about their behaviour.


Once again completely missing the point. The fact that the freighter pilot is for 15 minutes, despite their best efforts, unable to warp off, is by definition false imprisonment. This is a criminal act and should draw CONCORD response.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2765 - 2014-08-31 02:26:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Veers Belvar wrote:
That, as far as a freighter goes, at the very least, is a factually incorrect statement.
Nope.
It is 100% accurate.

Quote:
The fact that the freighter pilot is for 15 minutes, despite their best efforts, unable to warp off
If he can't warp off, it is not his best efforts. That is a fact.

Quote:
is by definition false imprisonment.
There's no such thing.

Quote:
This is a criminal act and should draw CONCORD response.
Nope and nope, in that order.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2766 - 2014-08-31 02:27:55 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

Once again completely missing the point. The fact that the freighter pilot is for 15 minutes, despite their best efforts, unable to warp off, is by definition false imprisonment. This is a criminal act and should draw CONCORD response.


It is not despite their best efforts.

It is despite zero effort. They have done nothing. If they actually tried, they would get away every time.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#2767 - 2014-08-31 02:32:04 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
That, as far as a freighter goes, at the very least, is a factually incorrect statement.
Nope.
It is 100% accurate.

Quote:
The fact that the freighter pilot is for 15 minutes, despite their best efforts, unable to warp off
If he can't warp off, it is not his best efforts. That is a fact.

Quote:
is by definition false imprisonment.
There's no such thing.

Quote:
This is a criminal act and should draw CONCORD response.
Nope and nope, in that order.


I would love for a CCP dev to address this....any love from the Blues? Assuming optimal bumping by 3 bumping machariels, and optimals response from a freighter pilot, will the freighter pilot be able to escape? And if the answer to that is "no," I am confident that my 2 sparring partners here would support a CONCORD response to bumping when used to entrap freighters.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2768 - 2014-08-31 02:33:37 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

I would love for a CCP dev to address this....


Here's what you're going to get.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=199310&find=unread


Quote:
Assuming optimal bumping by 3 bumping machariels, and optimals response from a freighter pilot, will the freighter pilot be able to escape?


Like I said, I did it this past week. It's actually fairly easy, if you bother to do things correctly in the first place.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2769 - 2014-08-31 02:33:48 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
I would love for a CCP dev to address this.

They already have. Bumping is allowed. It does not trigger CONCORD, even after CrimeWatch 2.0-

Quote:
Assuming optimal bumping by 3 bumping machariels, and optimals response from a freighter pilot, will the freighter pilot be able to escape?
Yes.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#2770 - 2014-08-31 02:36:31 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
I would love for a CCP dev to address this.

They already have. Bumping is allowed. It does not trigger CONCORD, even after CrimeWatch 2.0-

Quote:
Assuming optimal bumping by 3 bumping machariels, and optimals response from a freighter pilot, will the freighter pilot be able to escape?
Yes.


Much as I trust my two favorite suicide gankers, who are completely disinterested and independent in answering this query, I would prefer a response from a DEV who is actually familiar with the core game mechanics.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2771 - 2014-08-31 02:37:50 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

Much as I trust my two favorite suicide gankers, who are completely disinterested and independent in answering this query, I would prefer a response from a DEV who is actually familiar with the core game mechanics.


Tippia is not a suicide ganker.

And if you do get a Dev response, you aren't going to like the results. Nevermind why any of them should bother with a anklebiting troll like you.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2772 - 2014-08-31 02:39:59 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Much as I trust my two favorite suicide gankers, who are completely disinterested and independent in answering this query, I would prefer a response from a DEV who is actually familiar with the core game mechanics.

So you'll accept my answer then? Good.

The devs have already answered your question. Bumping is allowed. It does not trigger CONCORD, even after CW2.0. And yes, the freighter can get away — after all, he's not warp scrambled or anything like that.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#2773 - 2014-08-31 02:41:37 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

Much as I trust my two favorite suicide gankers, who are completely disinterested and independent in answering this query, I would prefer a response from a DEV who is actually familiar with the core game mechanics.


Tippia is not a suicide ganker.

And if you do get a Dev response, you aren't going to like the results. Nevermind why any of them should bother with a anklebiting troll like you.


"ankle-biting troll" - very cute. Since the IQ level of the conversation has now dropped below the nursery level, I will avoid further conversation with you. Cheers
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#2774 - 2014-08-31 02:42:24 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Much as I trust my two favorite suicide gankers, who are completely disinterested and independent in answering this query, I would prefer a response from a DEV who is actually familiar with the core game mechanics.

So you'll accept my answer then? Good.

The devs have already answered your question. Bumping is allowed. It does not trigger CONCORD, even after CW2.0. And yes, the freighter can get away — after all, he's not warp scrambled or anything like that.


No, but since you are just trolling, and intentionally failing to grasp the point, I will engage with you no further.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2775 - 2014-08-31 02:43:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Veers Belvar wrote:
"ankle-biting troll" - very cute. Since the IQ level of the conversation has now dropped below the nursery level
Well, maybe if you hadn't started throwing around unfounded accusations, it wouldn't have dropped to that level.

Quote:
No, but since you are just trolling, and intentionally failing to grasp the point, I will engage with you no further.
Again, explaining to you how things actually work is not trolling, nor is it a failure to grasp your point. Your point is factually incorrect.
If you refuse to engage with others because they correct your misunderstandings, then that does not make me a troll either — quite the opposite in fact.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2776 - 2014-08-31 02:44:31 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

"ankle-biting troll" - very cute. Since the IQ level of the conversation has now dropped below the nursery level, I will avoid further conversation with you. Cheers


It dropped that way right about when you started comparing a video game to real life.

Especially a video game in which pretty much every form of capital fraud is perfectly legal.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#2777 - 2014-08-31 02:46:12 UTC
I'm not getting the argument here apparently. Bumping is allowed, and it can be done well enough to prevent you from warping. CONCORD is not a police force, because that analogy breaks down rather quickly. But the mechanic is obviously one that's been sanctioned by CCP, so it's a part of the game, like it or not.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#2778 - 2014-08-31 02:52:11 UTC
Derrick Miles wrote:
I'm not getting the argument here apparently. Bumping is allowed, and it can be done well enough to prevent you from warping. CONCORD is not a police force, because that analogy breaks down rather quickly. But the mechanic is obviously one that's been sanctioned by CCP, so it's a part of the game, like it or not.


The point is that when bumping is used as a mechanism to make it impossible for ships to warp off between successive gank attempts from the exact same gankers, the failure of CONCORD to respond to such is inconsistent with the both the purpose of OONCORD and the design of highsec.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2779 - 2014-08-31 02:53:47 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
The point is that when bumping is used as a mechanism to make it impossible for ships to warp off between successive gank attempts from the exact same gankers
I.e. never.

Quote:
the failure of CONCORD to respond to such is inconsistent with the both the purpose of OONCORD and the design of highsec.
No, it's not inconsistent that CONCORD does not respond to an impossible event or that they don't respond to legal activity.
Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#2780 - 2014-08-31 03:20:21 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:
I'm not getting the argument here apparently. Bumping is allowed, and it can be done well enough to prevent you from warping. CONCORD is not a police force, because that analogy breaks down rather quickly. But the mechanic is obviously one that's been sanctioned by CCP, so it's a part of the game, like it or not.

The point is that when bumping is used as a mechanism to make it impossible for ships to warp off between successive gank attempts from the exact same gankers, the failure of CONCORD to respond to such is inconsistent with the both the purpose of OONCORD and the design of highsec.

I would argue here that the purpose of CONCORD is not a police force but a specific set of consequences for a specific set of actions. You're right in that they are not an effective police force, for a number of reasons, but I don't think they were intended to be one in the traditional sense.

Tippia wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
The point is that when bumping is used as a mechanism to make it impossible for ships to warp off between successive gank attempts from the exact same gankers
I.e. never.

Quote:
the failure of CONCORD to respond to such is inconsistent with the both the purpose of OONCORD and the design of highsec.
No, it's not inconsistent that CONCORD does not respond to an impossible event or that they don't respond to legal activity.

I think there's one too many negatives in that statement, but from what I gather you don't think it's possible to bump a freighter so that it can't warp off? And that it's not 'illegal' to bump in the first place? The second part I agree with, but I'm not so sure about the first.