These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Kronos] Mordu's Legion

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#881 - 2014-05-19 20:53:27 UTC
Tzar Sinak wrote:
In have not read the entire thread.

Will the battleship be the missile chuckers ticket into Incursions or are we still forced into turret weapons?
Well, that missile speed bonus is surely going to make a difference, since it lowers the "delayed damage" problem for missiles at Incursions. Even with the flight time penalty, they still get a range increase.
ZecsMarquis
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#882 - 2014-05-19 21:22:00 UTC
Still waiting to see a change to the Barghest, does anyone actually think the stats are good in the current iteration? I originally wanted an application bonus. I'm ok with just the raw damage increase to 7.5% as it would still be a better increase anyway. It feels shoehorned into a failboat cruise PvE which is still not good enough for Incursions and is still outperformed by the Golem and CNR. It's role is currently going to be rapid heavies with a Machariel kiting style fit. While that's all fun and good it kinda sucks being forced into that when you can do shield vindi's and all kinds of other stuff with the other variants.

Does anyone disagree with me? I've seen few in favor of the current stats. If you feel like the stats are looking solid, speak up. If you do not, also speak up. I'm not opposed to reasonable logic no matter which way you feel.
Sheimi Madaveda
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#883 - 2014-05-19 22:33:43 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Holy crap...dat frig and cruiser dps... you'll be doing upwards of 300 with the frig, and upwards of 500, possibly 600 with the cruiser. This is going to be amazing.

The missile bonuses you have set up are absolutely brilliant. The massive velocity increase means that damage can apply more realistically, especially with javelins on the garmur. The dps on the cruiser and frigate might be a little too powerful, but we'll have to see. I'm extremely interested to see how their stats play out in a solo/small gang fight.

*snip*


If you're planning to use HML on the Orthrus, you are also planning to have something like a Rapier with you so you can apply that DPS. In other words, don't.

Otherwise, go for the RLML Orthrus that kills most cruisers in a single clip to begin with, at a fairly breakneck DPS using OH'd Furies at 722 or something.

Faction ammo gets 40k damage per clip.

Fury gets 50k per clip.

Arma Purgatorium - Once for the State, Now for the King Low Sec, PvP, Industrial - Open for Recruiting http://armapurgatorium.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/arpur_recruit1.png 
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#884 - 2014-05-20 01:18:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
It looks like rapid heavy launchers may have finally found the ultimate platform. Now if we can just get the reload time down another 5-15 seconds, I might actually have to send CCP Rise a Christmas card this year...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#885 - 2014-05-20 05:26:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Lephia DeGrande
Tbh, application bonus supports solo play, while raw damage supports teamplay, i would think about that.

Atleast with missiles.

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Elisk Skyforge
State War Academy
#886 - 2014-05-20 06:02:11 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
It looks like rapid heavy launchers may have finally found the ultimate platform. Now if we can just get the reload time down another 5-15 seconds, I might actually have to send CCP Rise a Christmas card this year...


A bonus to volume of rapid launchers, meaning more missiles per clip would be good too.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#887 - 2014-05-20 06:20:13 UTC
Elisk Skyforge wrote:
A bonus to volume of rapid launchers, meaning more missiles per clip would be good too.

Honestly, I'd be ecstatic with anything at this point...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Jasmine Assasin
The Holy Rollers
#888 - 2014-05-20 08:57:54 UTC
The Barghest fit I put together and want to run requires Missile rigging to V and I still can't fit anything in the utility high with only 2.18 CPU left.

I am also having trouble finding useful (something besides faction PDUs anyway) mods to fill the two leftover low slots that also keep CPU use to a minimum. Have oodles and oodles of PG left though.

I think that a 7.5% damage bonus might make it worthwhile to go through the trouble of trying to find a decent fit. Of course adding some base CPU and the 7.5% bonus would do wonders for this ship.

As it stands right now (IMHO), the DPS is okay but not enough that I really want to go through with purchasing this ship and the fitting woes just compound the issue. This is coming from someone that loves the SNI and can live without an application bonus. But that hull has other things going for it that the Barghest doesn't. Chiefly, the fact that I can use all the slots and make the ship "fit for purpose" is a pretty damn big advantage even compared to the minor DPS increase of the Barghest.
Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
#889 - 2014-05-20 09:50:18 UTC
One more about the Barghest and DPS.

When I initially saw the stats, I thought: meh.
8.75 effective launchers, not exactly a drone powerhouse... this is not going to be OMGWTFBBQ awesome compared to the others.
(Vindi: 11 turrets, Macha: 11.66 turrets, Nightmare: 10 turrets - plus the lower base damage from missiles)
So at first glance I would say: this thing needs at least +7,5% dmg to be sexy.

But then again...
I believe if the Barghest gets a higher damage bonus, there is a danger that it will overshadow the new Rattlesnake again. Just the same time as the new (hopefully less unpopular) version hits TQ.

Rattlesnake: Hero drones (effectively 5 large drones) + 7.5 effective launchers, all missile sized bonussed but for only 2 damage types.

So both battleships will somewhat compete for the niche of a "anti-frig/cruiser-BS" if fitted with undersized missiles.
With the Gecko drone up for an indirect nerf (Kronos drone buff already applied), I assume the winner in popularity will clearly be the Barghest - IF it were to receive a higher damage bonus.
In the currently proposed version they are closer to each other.

So IF a higher damage bonus for the Barghest is considered, the Rattlesnake also needs to be looked at again (or the Gecko drone).
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#890 - 2014-05-20 09:59:50 UTC
Jasmine Assasin wrote:
The Barghest fit I put together and want to run requires Missile rigging to V and I still can't fit anything in the utility high with only 2.18 CPU left.

I am also having trouble finding useful (something besides faction PDUs anyway) mods to fill the two leftover low slots that also keep CPU use to a minimum. Have oodles and oodles of PG left though.

I think that a 7.5% damage bonus might make it worthwhile to go through the trouble of trying to find a decent fit. Of course adding some base CPU and the 7.5% bonus would do wonders for this ship.

As it stands right now (IMHO), the DPS is okay but not enough that I really want to go through with purchasing this ship and the fitting woes just compound the issue. This is coming from someone that loves the SNI and can live without an application bonus. But that hull has other things going for it that the Barghest doesn't. Chiefly, the fact that I can use all the slots and make the ship "fit for purpose" is a pretty damn big advantage even compared to the minor DPS increase of the Barghest.

Torpedoes? What if anything are you running for implants? Genolution? CPU?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#891 - 2014-05-20 10:41:36 UTC
Sheimi Madaveda wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Holy crap...dat frig and cruiser dps... you'll be doing upwards of 300 with the frig, and upwards of 500, possibly 600 with the cruiser. This is going to be amazing.

The missile bonuses you have set up are absolutely brilliant. The massive velocity increase means that damage can apply more realistically, especially with javelins on the garmur. The dps on the cruiser and frigate might be a little too powerful, but we'll have to see. I'm extremely interested to see how their stats play out in a solo/small gang fight.

*snip*


If you're planning to use HML on the Orthrus, you are also planning to have something like a Rapier with you so you can apply that DPS. In other words, don't.

Otherwise, go for the RLML Orthrus that kills most cruisers in a single clip to begin with, at a fairly breakneck DPS using OH'd Furies at 722 or something.

Faction ammo gets 40k damage per clip.

Fury gets 50k per clip.



Not true. HAML already apply damage enough. There is a reason why we use so many cerberus and tengus with HAMLs. As long as you are not hunting interceptors

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Jasmine Assasin
The Holy Rollers
#892 - 2014-05-20 10:45:23 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Jasmine Assasin wrote:
The Barghest fit I put together and want to run requires Missile rigging to V and I still can't fit anything in the utility high with only 2.18 CPU left.
snip

Torpedoes? What if anything are you running for implants? Genolution? CPU?



No, Torps with my proposed fit are simply not even possible unless you use co-processors. I prefer CMs at any rate.


One thing though, even going from a 5% damage bonus to 10% bonus, unless they change the RS between now and June 3rd, the RS (and Vindi) will still be able to lay down more DPS by a decent margin. [in before officer mods, overheat, etc,etc] I can't speak for everyone, but I hate drones and drone management so even if the RS put down 3k DPS I still wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. Because lets be honest, if it was all about the DPS we'd all be flying Vindicators anyway right? We don't so obviously there is more to the equation.
ZecsMarquis
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#893 - 2014-05-20 10:54:23 UTC
The Barghest needs a buff, there's no way around it.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#894 - 2014-05-20 11:18:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Xequecal
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Not true. HAML already apply damage enough. There is a reason why we use so many cerberus and tengus with HAMLs. As long as you are not hunting interceptors


The real question is, if you're going to use HAMs, why aren't you flying a Cerberus instead of this ship? Same DPS, disruptor bonus doesn't help you when your missiles only have 30km range anyways, and the Cerb tanks a lot better.

Remember, the cruiser is going to go for 500m at the bare minimum. You need to find a unique niche for it to make it worth flying for that price.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#895 - 2014-05-20 12:22:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Nariya Kentaya
Just popping in to say, Rise, you and fozzie better not be thinking of leaving EVE anytime soon. doing that would be NOT cool. AS much as I hate your armageddon changes, i do like everything else pretty well.
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#896 - 2014-05-20 12:54:36 UTC
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
The two reasons for it being Cal-Gal are that when they first showed up after defecting they brought a massive amount of hardware to reverse engineer, and two, ship practice is still Gallente; small crews, robots clean the hallways instead of interns, and all that jazz.

It's not like Minmatar like Caldari either.

Sansha is Am/Cal because Sansha is Caldari and the first slave crews had to came from somewhere they wouldn't be missed.


At the end of the day you are still arguing that lore should be one of the main drivers of balance.

If they wanted to, they could make up any number of reasons to make it cal/min or not give any reason at all. I really haven't seen anything like this before from CCP, where imbalance is created because of lore. If anything, they ignore it when they balance things. Ex vargur is still owned by boundless creations.

Seems like favoritism to me. Lore isn't a good excuse
Eridon Hermetz
Jump 2 Beacon
OnlyHoles
#897 - 2014-05-20 14:12:13 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Not true. HAML already apply damage enough. There is a reason why we use so many cerberus and tengus with HAMLs. As long as you are not hunting interceptors


The real question is, if you're going to use HAMs, why aren't you flying a Cerberus instead of this ship? Same DPS, disruptor bonus doesn't help you when your missiles only have 30km range anyways, and the Cerb tanks a lot better.

Remember, the cruiser is going to go for 500m at the bare minimum. You need to find a unique niche for it to make it worth flying for that price.



Cerberus have the same dps with KINETIC damage missile , the Orthrus don't care about it , he can deal more damage virtually by using different damage type of missile
Orthrus will go MORE faster than the Cerberus , and have slightly more drones (25 mb/s and m3)
Disruptor would'nt help in the range of HAM , you're right , but the Scram range will be awesome (scram and not being scramed nomnomnomnom)
The tank not sure , with 2 LSE and 1 invul , orthrus will have more effective EHP but yes without the T2 resist of ther Cerberus

So , HAM Orthrus will be viable


Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#898 - 2014-05-20 21:26:15 UTC
The Barghest seriously needs a buff, be it a change to 7.5% damage per Caldari Battleship skill level or another launcher slot- I don't want this to end up like the nestor...

"A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
ZecsMarquis
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#899 - 2014-05-20 21:49:49 UTC
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
The Barghest seriously needs a buff, be it a change to 7.5% damage per Caldari Battleship skill level or another launcher slot- I don't want this to end up like the nestor...


I would say +1, but by now its gotta be up to +10 or so.

A few of us agree with you for sure.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#900 - 2014-05-20 21:54:24 UTC
Eridon Hermetz wrote:

So , HAM Orthrus will be viable


Whyever you'd want to fit HAMs to a hull with a 100% damage bonus to any sort of missile, and an application bonus to none.
Just a scram and everything short of an AB'ing frig will be hit for nearly full damage - using RLMLs you can even 100mn-fit it with that ridiculous agility of a pirateship.