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Rorqual - I missed the fanfest stream.

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Robert Morningstar
Morningstar Excavations LTD
Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
#41 - 2014-05-07 19:04:29 UTC
The could allow for dual siege both industry core and bastion mode at the same time apply the range bonus to its primary weapons (drones)
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#42 - 2014-05-07 19:42:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Robert Morningstar wrote:
The could allow for dual siege both industry core and bastion mode at the same time apply the range bonus to its primary weapons (drones)

I think this is easier to implement:

Change Rorqual from:
5% bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman gang links per level when in deployed mode
to
3% bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman gang links per level [Orca-class bonus.]
2% bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman gang links per level when in deployed mode

It is also small buff from 25% to 26.5% for the sake of whole number bonuses.
Iosue
League of Gentlemen
The Initiative.
#43 - 2014-05-07 20:53:47 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Survive what long enough? That's the problem with drops. You have no idea what's coming. Quite a few fly with both regular and covert cyno too. Could be a Titan nearby. Who knows.


this exactly. imo, the rorq needs to be pushed toward evasion, not fighting. it makes no sense to turn this into a combat ship, there are plenty of other ships that can handle offense/defense. besides, one hot drop with a few supers will completely nullify any combat bonus these guys get.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2014-05-07 20:55:50 UTC
Batelle wrote:
The rumors I heard was that it will get huge offensive, defensive, and remote shield transfer bonuses in its deployed mode. A rorqual plus skiffs will be able to survive long enough for reinforcements to arrive, including completely tanking most light roaming gangs, and will have the drone firepower to "punch back" as Fozzie said of the new skiff. Gangs of Blops BS are going to want to have their hospital Sin with them.

This makes sense, as Fozzie did say in his presentation "you will WANT to put this in a belt."



My thoughts are:
1) Need to make it support a mining fleet.
2) Not overpowered for non-mining fleets.

My idea will take code change to allow fleet bonuses based on ship type being effected.

When core active, bonus to mining links (same as now)
When core active, bonuses to siege links (shield resists, boost/xfer amount, cap use) BUT only for mining ships (over powered if not applied only to mining ships).
When core active, bonuses to capital and medium shield xfer range, duration and cap usage.
Immune to EWAR when core active (no jams, damps)

For non-mining ships, siege links work as normal.

So, it is basically a triage carrier without fighters (10 sentry drones equivalent (5 x double damage)), designed to rep cruisers, with extra shield link bonus to minng ships.


The point would be to have 2 rorqs in the belt. One providing mining boosts and the other providing shield link bonuses. If you get attacked, they both can provide a couple medium shield xfer to (resist boosted) mining ships, local capital shield boost and capital shield xfer to each other.

If we can't get rid of cloaky campers, at least give the mining fleet a chance against all but the largest attack (if they have a couple rorqs available... more, even better).
1) bonuses to siege links mean massive firepower needed to alpha (high resists).
2) bonused local and remote rep mean massive sustained damage needed to overcome shield boost.
3) damage output equivalent of 20 sentry drones, added to mining fleet drones (skiffs 1.5x damage) means a heck of a counter punch.

And no... I'm not dropping one of the medium remote shield xfer for a cap tractor. The mining ships will have to bring the ore to me. With 2 rorq in belt, should not be too much of an issue.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2014-05-07 20:59:58 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Batelle wrote:
The rumors I heard was that it will get huge offensive, defensive, and remote shield transfer bonuses in its deployed mode. A rorqual plus skiffs will be able to survive long enough for reinforcements to arrive, including completely tanking most light roaming gangs, and will have the drone firepower to "punch back" as Fozzie said of the new skiff. Gangs of Blops BS are going to want to have their hospital Sin with them.

This makes sense, as Fozzie did say in his presentation "you will WANT to put this in a belt."


Survive what long enough? That's the problem with drops. You have no idea what's coming. Quite a few fly with both regular and covert cyno too. Could be a Titan nearby. Who knows.



For null, cyno jammer.

For low... yeah, don't do it unless you have massive firepower ready for counter hot drop.

So, the answer is, in null, long enough for a large black ops battleship or stealth bomber drop, or for low sec, for your massive-er counter hot drop fleet.

LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2014-05-07 21:03:10 UTC
Iosue wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
Survive what long enough? That's the problem with drops. You have no idea what's coming. Quite a few fly with both regular and covert cyno too. Could be a Titan nearby. Who knows.


this exactly. imo, the rorq needs to be pushed toward evasion, not fighting. it makes no sense to turn this into a combat ship, there are plenty of other ships that can handle offense/defense. besides, one hot drop with a few supers will completely nullify any combat bonus these guys get.


I do not think that is the point of the desire to get it into belt.

Get it into belt so it can avoid the reason we want to get it into belt? Seems unlikely they will go in this direction.

Supers can't get into cyno jammed system, so the direction has to be: able to keep itself and mining fleet alive long enough for counter attack, in cyno jammed system, where risks are black ops and roaming gangs.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#47 - 2014-05-07 21:12:33 UTC
Hmmmmm. Rorqual with a grid wide cyno jammer while it's sieged? Blink

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#48 - 2014-05-07 21:17:09 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Hmmmmm. Rorqual with a grid wide cyno jammer while it's sieged? Blink


Cyno in off grid, warp to Rorqual, view the fit on zkillboard at your leisure.
Iosue
League of Gentlemen
The Initiative.
#49 - 2014-05-07 22:27:32 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
I do not think that is the point of the desire to get it into belt.

Get it into belt so it can avoid the reason we want to get it into belt? Seems unlikely they will go in this direction.

Supers can't get into cyno jammed system, so the direction has to be: able to keep itself and mining fleet alive long enough for counter attack, in cyno jammed system, where risks are black ops and roaming gangs.


personally, the reason i'd put my rorq in a belt would be to pick up ore and provide boosts (assuming they remove off-grid boosting as a part of these changes). i have no desire to use it as some kind of last-man standing defense-base to stand my ground while surrounded by a bunch of barges and exhumers.

furthermore, i can't imagine what kind of push back they'll get from small gang and blops pilots when they find out their shiny pew machines won't be able to stand up against a fleet of mining barges, lol.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#50 - 2014-05-08 00:59:06 UTC
Rorqual + Mobile Scan Inhibitor + Mobile Cynosaural Inhibitor

I still carry a Gallente control tower.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2014-05-08 05:07:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
Weaselior wrote:
the buffs that would make it worth putting a rorqual in a belt would need to be insane

I agree. if they don't add much bonus you aren't really gaining anything but risk bringing that monstrosity into a belt. (did I just agree with a goon.. hell might freeze over.Smile)

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Sir Gankal0t
5th Element Incorporated
Corelum Syndicate
#52 - 2014-05-08 10:24:55 UTC
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
Fozzie & Rise talked about the Orca & Rorqual briefly and in non-specific terms in the module & ship rebalancing talk. It was an informative talk on all the other stuff they mentioned as opposed to the DUST keynote I just watched which was very poor. Proposed changes to modules sounded interesting.

The changes to the Orca & Rorqual won't happen in the summer update so I guess it will happen in the winter one. Regarding the Rorqual they want it to be able to be used outside of the POS shield. It will still have the ore compression role and will have vastly increased EHP/resistances/something else(?) to enable it to survive in-belt. I don' t think anything more specific than that was said.


There won't be a winter expansion anymore we will receive updates around every 10 weeks that was said on one of the keynotes by ccp seagull
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2014-05-08 15:58:20 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Hmmmmm. Rorqual with a grid wide cyno jammer while it's sieged? Blink


Game breaking as I could put the rorq in a cap fight to block the other side from dropping reinforcements.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2014-05-08 16:05:34 UTC
Sir Gankal0t wrote:
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
Fozzie & Rise talked about the Orca & Rorqual briefly and in non-specific terms in the module & ship rebalancing talk. It was an informative talk on all the other stuff they mentioned as opposed to the DUST keynote I just watched which was very poor. Proposed changes to modules sounded interesting.

The changes to the Orca & Rorqual won't happen in the summer update so I guess it will happen in the winter one. Regarding the Rorqual they want it to be able to be used outside of the POS shield. It will still have the ore compression role and will have vastly increased EHP/resistances/something else(?) to enable it to survive in-belt. I don' t think anything more specific than that was said.


There won't be a winter expansion anymore we will receive updates around every 10 weeks that was said on one of the keynotes by ccp seagull


Every 10 weeks would be 5 a year. It is 10 a year.

The monthly drops will most likely be DB changes, like ship rebalance and very small code changes . Major rewrite stuff will still be in the 2 big releases. Probably the reason 10 vs. 12 is no monthly drop the month before a big release.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#55 - 2014-05-08 16:10:07 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
350125GO wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
the buffs that would make it worth putting a rorqual in a belt would need to be insane


They'd be more likely to change it's role than to give it buffs.

tell me the role that involves putting a 2b capital ship in a belt that is not insane


People put 2b isk ships in Anomalies ALL THE TIME.

Ratting Carriers are very common....
Blingy Nightmares, Machariels, Marauders, etc, etc, etc...

The main difference is, the above ships generally don't enter a 5-minute siege cycle to PvE. Alter the siege behavior of the Rorqual to be less of a sitting target, and it can see use.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2014-05-08 16:10:59 UTC
Iosue wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
I do not think that is the point of the desire to get it into belt.

Get it into belt so it can avoid the reason we want to get it into belt? Seems unlikely they will go in this direction.

Supers can't get into cyno jammed system, so the direction has to be: able to keep itself and mining fleet alive long enough for counter attack, in cyno jammed system, where risks are black ops and roaming gangs.


personally, the reason i'd put my rorq in a belt would be to pick up ore and provide boosts (assuming they remove off-grid boosting as a part of these changes). i have no desire to use it as some kind of last-man standing defense-base to stand my ground while surrounded by a bunch of barges and exhumers.

furthermore, i can't imagine what kind of push back they'll get from small gang and blops pilots when they find out their shiny pew machines won't be able to stand up against a fleet of mining barges, lol.


Yes, but I'm thinking from the dev point of view and what they plan to result from moving the rorq into a belt. I suspect they want belt fights, not a rorq that can quickly warp away as soon as a non-blue appears in local.

So, I'm approaching it from a point of view of what I would need to put my rorq in harms way for a belt fight sue to a cloaky camper being in system. The answer is that It would need to be able to keep itself and the exhumes alive while dishing out a significant counter punch and staying alive long enough for counter-attack.

The problem, I guess, is that what I'd want would mean there still wouldn't be fights because the attackers would most likely lose big time.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2014-05-08 16:18:00 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
350125GO wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
the buffs that would make it worth putting a rorqual in a belt would need to be insane


They'd be more likely to change it's role than to give it buffs.

tell me the role that involves putting a 2b capital ship in a belt that is not insane


People put 2b isk ships in Anomalies ALL THE TIME.

Ratting Carriers are very common....
Blingy Nightmares, Machariels, Marauders, etc, etc, etc...

The main difference is, the above ships generally don't enter a 5-minute siege cycle to PvE. Alter the siege behavior of the Rorqual to be less of a sitting target, and it can see use.


The pimp BS align and warp to POS pretty safely. The carriers can jump to jump beacon in well protected system where PvP fleets stage.

As you point out, it is the 5 min lock-down for boosts that is the Rorq's problem.

AND, no one does any of that with a claoky camper, so if the rorq in belt is intended to be the counter to cloaky campers, simply removing the siege to get bonuses is not going to work.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#58 - 2014-05-08 16:27:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Victoria Sin
LHA Tarawa wrote:

As you point out, it is the 5 min lock-down for boosts that is the Rorq's problem.


In my experience 7 seconds is enough time to GTFO as usually they're in the next system. If they're already in your system it's probably too late. So the only way I'd put a Rorqual into a belt is if it gave bonuses without siege and could align and warp in 7 seconds or fewer (like my Mackinaws can).

With respect to hot-drops as I said before, there's nothing to counter because you don't know what's being dropped. It could be anything from 5 bombers to 50 supers. There's no strategy for defending your Rorqual from a hot-dropper that doesn't involve GTFO in my opinion.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#59 - 2014-05-08 17:14:21 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
As you point out, it is the 5 min lock-down for boosts that is the Rorq's problem.

In my experience 7 seconds is enough time to GTFO as usually they're in the next system. If they're already in your system it's probably too late. So the only way I'd put a Rorqual into a belt is if it gave bonuses without siege and could align and warp in 7 seconds or fewer (like my Mackinaws can).

With respect to hot-drops as I said before, there's nothing to counter because you don't know what's being dropped. It could be anything from 5 bombers to 50 supers. There's no strategy for defending your Rorqual from a hot-dropper that doesn't involve GTFO in my opinion.

That's why I suggested that self-pointing be optional, with additional benefits for those that take the risk.

Plus, the Industrial Core cycle time be reduced to 1 minute, like bastion. Of course Heavy Water fuel consumption would have to be adjusted, though I'd really like to see it just removed.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#60 - 2014-05-09 05:40:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
FYI, if you have a mystery code from the collectors edition, go collect you Rorqual ORE Development Edition BPC from the voucher centerBear