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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Cruisers

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Ambo
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#141 - 2014-04-07 17:59:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Ambo
Hmm.. The Phatasm and Gila changes are a bit too much to get my head around on first read. For the others though:

Ashimmu: Generally good but losing the extra high slot hits it's (current primary) role as the best small gang neuting T1 cruiser hull. The maller will now be almost as good for a lot less isk, which seems kinda weird.

Vigilant: Liking the boost to speed, it really needed that. Not sure why you felt the need to nerf PG. Most of my fits are a little tight as it is.

Cynabal: Good. It was in the right place as is.
Talvorian Dex
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#142 - 2014-04-07 18:00:15 UTC
It strikes me that the Gila has just become a close-range drone bone now. Besides, two drones are going to seem really innocuous, until you start to get hit by them.

Can you imagine a couple gilas peppered into a fleet with a lot of other drone ships? You'll be looking for the Gila's drones to kill, but you won't be able to find them. Very sneaky.

Writer of Target Caller, an Eve Online PvP blog, at http://targetcaller.blogspot.com
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#143 - 2014-04-07 18:02:09 UTC
Chris Winter wrote:

As a Rattlesnake pilot, I'm really worried what you're going to do to it.

all i'm wondering is if it will be more or less funny than gilas.

i would like so see a super bonused, single HAM and a super drone... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI0tVkqJRMQ

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#144 - 2014-04-07 18:02:51 UTC
definitely feel the Ashimmu needs the extra Nos/neut range ... also make T2 neuts/nos useful please

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#145 - 2014-04-07 18:03:48 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:


they excel in all situations where they don't get rekt, and making all smaller ships irrelevant isn't good game balance


Damn shame they can't be wiped off the map by a keres, griffon, maulus or kitsune, damn those smaller ship. oh and a sentinel can probably have something to say about those short stubby webs.

Damn all those irrelevant smaller ships

EDIT: Calling something uncounterable because its counter isn't in your standard ship compliment seems silly, adapt your ship types if you're seeing a lot of Vigilants to include the things that easily counter them.

The list is pretty long of ships that fit the bill, at a fraction of its cost.


so no ship is OP because ecm and damps exist, and no ship with modules that use cap is OP because neuts exist
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#146 - 2014-04-07 18:04:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Quote:
As a Rattlesnake pilot, I'm really worried what you're going to do to it.

RIP Rattlesnake.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#147 - 2014-04-07 18:07:11 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:


they excel in all situations where they don't get rekt, and making all smaller ships irrelevant isn't good game balance


Damn shame they can't be wiped off the map by a keres, griffon, maulus or kitsune, damn those smaller ship. oh and a sentinel can probably have something to say about those short stubby webs.

Damn all those irrelevant smaller ships

EDIT: Calling something uncounterable because its counter isn't in your standard ship compliment seems silly, adapt your ship types if you're seeing a lot of Vigilants to include the things that easily counter them.

The list is pretty long of ships that fit the bill, at a fraction of its cost.


so no ship is OP because ecm and damps exist, and no ship with modules that use cap is OP because neuts exist


Yeah just get 10 of your friends, and put 5 of them in 150k ehp guardians that rep 3k dps each, then put 3 people into keres, and then 2 people into absolutions and I bet you can fight off any ship you want. Just l2p noob
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#148 - 2014-04-07 18:07:55 UTC
The Ashinmu will now use its webs to get into neut range. It always had strong webs and strong neuts but its ability to get in range and use those was its draw back. Now it'll hold you down at range and drive over to neut you and apply damage, not bad really.

Gila is insane, tracking on Hobs? .922, Tracking on Valks? 1.44 at 744 dps.....oh mother.

Phantasm is worrisome, its a gun ship, going fast doesn't really do great things for its damage application, probably still be able to get some nice low sig kite fits out of it though

Cynabal may have to make some choices now instead of its current 'sprinkle the hangar on it, it'll fit' status.

I am super excited about the Battleship thread, these pirate changes are the best you guys have done throughout all of the tier reviews, and I say that as a guy fully in love with his malediction right now.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#149 - 2014-04-07 18:09:43 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:


they excel in all situations where they don't get rekt, and making all smaller ships irrelevant isn't good game balance


Damn shame they can't be wiped off the map by a keres, griffon, maulus or kitsune, damn those smaller ship. oh and a sentinel can probably have something to say about those short stubby webs.

Damn all those irrelevant smaller ships

EDIT: Calling something uncounterable because its counter isn't in your standard ship compliment seems silly, adapt your ship types if you're seeing a lot of Vigilants to include the things that easily counter them.

The list is pretty long of ships that fit the bill, at a fraction of its cost.


so no ship is OP because ecm and damps exist, and no ship with modules that use cap is OP because neuts exist


Hey nice rollerskates under your argument there, you say it makes smaller shipo irrelevant and I name you 5 smaller ships that aren't irrelevant and you change the direction of the argument to some absurd crap.

You can probably do better than that, try sticking to one thread of your argument at a time, you were saying something about making smaller ships irrelevant?

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#150 - 2014-04-07 18:10:20 UTC
it's not so bad, the Gila becomes a guardian-vexor via drone dps... though just 2 of them means drone webbing will be a thing.

I just wonder if this is also an attempt to reduce server load and TiDi.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#151 - 2014-04-07 18:11:03 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Going to give these a few days and hopefully post the BS near the end of the week.

Will we be including the "spruce goose" (aka: Nestor) in this batch? Twisted

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#152 - 2014-04-07 18:12:17 UTC
Cynabal nerf is pretty big, this isnt "keeping it the same" at all.
It's losing 1/4 of its powergrid.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#153 - 2014-04-07 18:13:46 UTC
Arya Regnar wrote:
Cynabal nerf is pretty big, this isnt "keeping it the same" at all.
It's losing 1/4 of its powergrid.


alongside the slight sig radius nerf and mass nerf

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#154 - 2014-04-07 18:14:16 UTC
Arya Regnar wrote:
Cynabal nerf is pretty big, this isnt "keeping it the same" at all.
It's losing 1/4 of its powergrid.

Just wait until you see the changes to the Machariel…

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#155 - 2014-04-07 18:15:16 UTC  |  Edited by: PinkKnife
Oh great, you copied the stupid succubus design.

As I said in that post, the entire ship is designed against itself and useless in the face of ships with the ability to have 90% webs.

A bonus to massive speed, but a ship that has the slowest tracking guns.

A bonus to gangs that rely on signature, on a ship that is supposed to shield tank.

A bonus to perma-running your afterburner, on a ship that has no capacitor bonus to the guns with the highest capacitor drain.

Why would anyone fly this over a zealot? Sure you can go faster, but your signature is 2-3 times as large, and the extra speed means **** all because you can't hit **** with it anyway,

So, comparing it with the zealot, opt for beams instead since you don't get the optimal range bonus, and you get a faster, twice as expensive boat, that still can't hit ****, trading tracking for range. Or dps for tracking.

As I said in the frigate thread, the ship is designed against its own bonuses, and is unspeakably lazy.

What are your BS plans, a bonus to AB speed again, so the Nightmare can continue to be a one trick incursion pony? Great, thanks Rise, let me know when you rebalance the pirate ships in 2019 because they Sansha lineup is still ******* trash.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#156 - 2014-04-07 18:17:53 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:


they excel in all situations where they don't get rekt, and making all smaller ships irrelevant isn't good game balance


Damn shame they can't be wiped off the map by a keres, griffon, maulus or kitsune, damn those smaller ship. oh and a sentinel can probably have something to say about those short stubby webs.

Damn all those irrelevant smaller ships

EDIT: Calling something uncounterable because its counter isn't in your standard ship compliment seems silly, adapt your ship types if you're seeing a lot of Vigilants to include the things that easily counter them.

The list is pretty long of ships that fit the bill, at a fraction of its cost.


so no ship is OP because ecm and damps exist, and no ship with modules that use cap is OP because neuts exist


Hey nice rollerskates under your argument there, you say it makes smaller shipo irrelevant and I name you 5 smaller ships that aren't irrelevant and you change the direction of the argument to some absurd crap.

You can probably do better than that, try sticking to one thread of your argument at a time, you were saying something about making smaller ships irrelevant?


fairly sure I said with the exception of interceptors and long range ewar ships
Lucas Quaan
Dark Enlightenment
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#157 - 2014-04-07 18:20:52 UTC
Suitonia wrote:
Hi Rise/Fozzie. I feel like the Cynabal overlaps far too much with the current Vagabond which currently is better in a lot of ways over the Cynabal and is generally superior. The Cynabal only offers better agility and a slightly better drone bay for all-around poorer performance. The extra mid does add some options but the vagabonds T2 resistances give a better performance than a 3rd tank items does from the Cynabal and the vagabonds shield boost bonus makes it the superior brawler. The vagabond has far better cap stability, t2 resists which help a lot for local/remote reps, better targeting stats and a powerful local rep bonus.

The cynabal only has a slight fitting advantage over the Vagabond if the Vagabond and Cynabal are both fitting 425mm Autocannons, otherwise, it's inferior. And that slight grid advantage doesn't allow you to offset the disadvantages.

I think the Cynabal needs to find a new niche;

+1
Mr R4nd0m
Doomheim
#158 - 2014-04-07 18:25:02 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
The Vigilant bonus was a typo, it's fixed now: MEDIUM hybrid.

The Gila bonus is not a typo, 500%.



500% really! isnt this going to become super overpowered fleets again? thats ridiculous
Viribus
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#159 - 2014-04-07 18:37:12 UTC
lmao all these people thinking the cynabal is OP or even viable. Jesus it's like eve-o's knowledge of the metagame is perpetually stuck 3 years behind the curve.

I bet you guys still think the hurricane is overpowered

watch me be a scurb and get owned
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#160 - 2014-04-07 18:39:56 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:


they excel in all situations where they don't get rekt, and making all smaller ships irrelevant isn't good game balance


Damn shame they can't be wiped off the map by a keres, griffon, maulus or kitsune, damn those smaller ship. oh and a sentinel can probably have something to say about those short stubby webs.

Damn all those irrelevant smaller ships

EDIT: Calling something uncounterable because its counter isn't in your standard ship compliment seems silly, adapt your ship types if you're seeing a lot of Vigilants to include the things that easily counter them.

The list is pretty long of ships that fit the bill, at a fraction of its cost.


so no ship is OP because ecm and damps exist, and no ship with modules that use cap is OP because neuts exist


Hey nice rollerskates under your argument there, you say it makes smaller shipo irrelevant and I name you 5 smaller ships that aren't irrelevant and you change the direction of the argument to some absurd crap.

You can probably do better than that, try sticking to one thread of your argument at a time, you were saying something about making smaller ships irrelevant?


fairly sure I said with the exception of interceptors and long range ewar ships


If you'll notice I have what you said quoted

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.