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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Cruisers

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Iorga Eeta
Hekatonkheires Industries
#161 - 2014-04-07 18:41:08 UTC
If you're looking for some unique flavor...

The Gila needs at least a 50% bonus to Medium EWar and Combat Utility drone effects. Actually, with the Guristas, a 500% bonus to ECM drone effects wouldn't be out of character, but I suspect that would be way too much for some people. A wing of Vespa EC-600s with a 500% bonus would be like getting hit by two multispectrum jammers on a Blackbird with a Max Skilled pilot.





Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#162 - 2014-04-07 18:41:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Medalyn Isis
Viribus wrote:
lmao all these people thinking the cynabal is OP or even viable. Jesus it's like eve-o's knowledge of the metagame is perpetually stuck 3 years behind the curve.

I bet you guys still think the hurricane is overpowered

Yeah, and I am pretty sure that is the same people saying how powerful the Phantasm is going to be and at the same time forgetting it is not a tengu or loki with missiles, but a cruiser with the slowest tracking guns in the game.

And they even suggest fitting a 100mn AB to it, they must be smoking some good drugs.
Aglais
Ice-Storm
Get Off My Lawn
#163 - 2014-04-07 18:43:39 UTC
Iorga Eeta wrote:
If you're looking for some unique flavor...

The Gila needs at least a 50% bonus to Medium EWar and Combat Utility drone effects. Actually, with the Guristas, a 500% bonus to ECM drone effects wouldn't be out of character, but I suspect that would be way too much for some people. A wing of Vespa EC-600s with a 500% bonus would be like getting hit by two multispectrum jammers on a Blackbird with a Max Skilled pilot.



Please explain to me why a ship whose role includes drone damage requires a bonus to ewar drones. You have ten seconds.
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#164 - 2014-04-07 18:47:02 UTC
Aglais wrote:
Iorga Eeta wrote:
If you're looking for some unique flavor...

The Gila needs at least a 50% bonus to Medium EWar and Combat Utility drone effects. Actually, with the Guristas, a 500% bonus to ECM drone effects wouldn't be out of character, but I suspect that would be way too much for some people. A wing of Vespa EC-600s with a 500% bonus would be like getting hit by two multispectrum jammers on a Blackbird with a Max Skilled pilot.



Please explain to me why a ship whose role includes drone damage requires a bonus to ewar drones. You have ten seconds.


Why shouldn't you have the same EC-300s/600s as other ships
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#165 - 2014-04-07 18:49:02 UTC
BadAssMcKill wrote:
Aglais wrote:
Iorga Eeta wrote:
If you're looking for some unique flavor...

The Gila needs at least a 50% bonus to Medium EWar and Combat Utility drone effects. Actually, with the Guristas, a 500% bonus to ECM drone effects wouldn't be out of character, but I suspect that would be way too much for some people. A wing of Vespa EC-600s with a 500% bonus would be like getting hit by two multispectrum jammers on a Blackbird with a Max Skilled pilot.



Please explain to me why a ship whose role includes drone damage requires a bonus to ewar drones. You have ten seconds.


Why shouldn't you have the same EC-300s/600s as other ships


Because its a drone ship without the slot penalty
Naomi Anthar
#166 - 2014-04-07 18:50:49 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Quote:
As a Rattlesnake pilot, I'm really worried what you're going to do to it.

RIP Rattlesnake.


More like long live rattlesnake ! With Ogres of course ;)).
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#167 - 2014-04-07 18:52:12 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:

If you'll notice I have what you said quoted


I guess I didn't say it to you directly. I'm not really interested in hurf blurfing about goalposts.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#168 - 2014-04-07 18:52:24 UTC
phantasm could definitely do with a full set of lights too deal with frigs and it will need a neut so .. more pg and cap is needed really ... reduce the sig radius a little more would be good so it doesn't end up at 200 sig with extenders... maybe exchange some armour ... they are meant too be shield tanked anyway..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Naomi Anthar
#169 - 2014-04-07 18:57:56 UTC
@ Medalyn Isis

I'm afraid you need to understand that Sansha nation ship is not Caldari ship , aswell it is not Amarr ship at same time. It's Sansha nation vessel.

Even more if dip into Sansha lore - they do consist members from all 4 major factions - so ship design could also import ideas from entire New Eden.

No concept is invalid for Sansha in this case.

Sorry ... i would hate devs if they would give it something stupid like TD bonus or shield resist bonus (even tho this one is powerful). I love the ... unique bonus on Sansha lineup. Now NOONE does the same thing. Which is nice - we got faction that does it own stuff. Not like Cyna for example ... Yeah looks great ... is not bad. But at the same time it is just pimped minmatar ship.
Phantasm just won over cyna ... instead of being happy about that - you complain.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#170 - 2014-04-07 19:01:19 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
phantasm could definitely do with a full set of lights too deal with frigs and it will need a neut so .. more pg and cap is needed really ... reduce the sig radius a little more would be good so it doesn't end up at 200 sig with extenders... maybe exchange some armour ... they are meant too be shield tanked anyway..

They aren't going to do that. The whole point seems to be that the ship is mismatched. That is why it appears powerful on paper, because you are going to have to contend with all of the contradictions in its fittings, stats, and bonuses.

For instance it appears like it is meant to go super fast, yet it cannot track when it does. And it appears as though it is meant to be shield tanked, although its sig rockets when it is countering the speed benefit. It appears as though it could be armour tanked, yet the base shield is substantially higher.

I think I can see what CCP Rise is doing, as this seems his style. It is kind of interesting, but the concept seems to be purposefully messy, and in practice it will be a lot weaker than it appears on paper.
Aliventi
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry.
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#171 - 2014-04-07 19:01:26 UTC
Make the Gila's drone buff apply to light drones also. Those pesky interceptors are faster than medium drones and the Gila can't launch enough light drones to kill one quickly.
Naomi Anthar
#172 - 2014-04-07 19:01:46 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
phantasm could definitely do with a full set of lights too deal with frigs and it will need a neut so .. more pg and cap is needed really ... reduce the sig radius a little more would be good so it doesn't end up at 200 sig with extenders... maybe exchange some armour ... they are meant too be shield tanked anyway..


The major problem for said frig is ... will it go faster than phantasm with ab on ? Sure 25 band would be cool on phantasm. But i have strong feeling it can actually outrun ab frigs in scram range LOL. Which is not bad at all hahaha.

And don't touch armor ... i can already see some armor tanked succubus/phantasm ! Not like it is bad. After all they drop armor modules all along ;).
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#173 - 2014-04-07 19:07:18 UTC
Naomi Anthar wrote:
@ Medalyn Isis

I'm afraid you need to understand that Sansha nation ship is not Caldari ship , aswell it is not Amarr ship at same time. It's Sansha nation vessel.

Even more if dip into Sansha lore - they do consist members from all 4 major factions - so ship design could also import ideas from entire New Eden.

No concept is invalid for Sansha in this case.

Sorry ... i would hate devs if they would give it something stupid like TD bonus or shield resist bonus (even tho this one is powerful). I love the ... unique bonus on Sansha lineup. Now NOONE does the same thing. Which is nice - we got faction that does it own stuff. Not like Cyna for example ... Yeah looks great ... is not bad. But at the same time it is just pimped minmatar ship.
Phantasm just won over cyna ... instead of being happy about that - you complain.

A good suggestion was to make the Sansha ships have a 250% web range role bonus. I would have much preferred that and then keep them as strong laser shield ships which can web to improve their tracking at long ranges.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#174 - 2014-04-07 19:14:50 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Naomi Anthar wrote:
@ Medalyn Isis

I'm afraid you need to understand that Sansha nation ship is not Caldari ship , aswell it is not Amarr ship at same time. It's Sansha nation vessel.

Even more if dip into Sansha lore - they do consist members from all 4 major factions - so ship design could also import ideas from entire New Eden.

No concept is invalid for Sansha in this case.

Sorry ... i would hate devs if they would give it something stupid like TD bonus or shield resist bonus (even tho this one is powerful). I love the ... unique bonus on Sansha lineup. Now NOONE does the same thing. Which is nice - we got faction that does it own stuff. Not like Cyna for example ... Yeah looks great ... is not bad. But at the same time it is just pimped minmatar ship.
Phantasm just won over cyna ... instead of being happy about that - you complain.

A good suggestion was to make the Sansha ships have a 250% web range role bonus. I would have much preferred that and then keep them as strong laser shield ships which can web to improve their tracking at long ranges.


You are looking for blood raiders
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#175 - 2014-04-07 19:15:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Gypsio III
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
phantasm could definitely do with a full set of lights too deal with frigs and it will need a neut so .. more pg and cap is needed really ... reduce the sig radius a little more would be good so it doesn't end up at 200 sig with extenders... maybe exchange some armour ... they are meant too be shield tanked anyway..

They aren't going to do that. The whole point seems to be that the ship is mismatched. That is why it appears powerful on paper, because you are going to have to contend with all of the contradictions in its fittings, stats, and bonuses.

For instance it appears like it is meant to go super fast, yet it cannot track when it does. And it appears as though it is meant to be shield tanked, although its sig rockets when it is countering the speed benefit. It appears as though it could be armour tanked, yet the base shield is substantially higher.

I think I can see what CCP Rise is doing, as this seems his style. It is kind of interesting, but the concept seems to be purposefully messy, and in practice it will be a lot weaker than it appears on paper.


These criticisms don't make much sense. An ABing Phantasm will be slower than a MWDing one, and hence will track better, all others being equal. If tracking is a problem, then try flying in a different direction, slowing down or turning the AB off.

You criticise the sig radius, yet ignore the biggest sig bloom mod of them all - the MWD, which you would be fitting without the AB bonus. If you want really a small sig, just active shield tank it. Anyway, the speed bonus will exceed the detrimental effects of shield sig bloom in normal conditions.

Edit - your reference to a web range bonus just screams highsec incursion runner wanting to blap at range with a Nightmare. Straight
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#176 - 2014-04-07 19:15:06 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
BadAssMcKill wrote:
Aglais wrote:
Iorga Eeta wrote:
If you're looking for some unique flavor...

The Gila needs at least a 50% bonus to Medium EWar and Combat Utility drone effects. Actually, with the Guristas, a 500% bonus to ECM drone effects wouldn't be out of character, but I suspect that would be way too much for some people. A wing of Vespa EC-600s with a 500% bonus would be like getting hit by two multispectrum jammers on a Blackbird with a Max Skilled pilot.



Please explain to me why a ship whose role includes drone damage requires a bonus to ewar drones. You have ten seconds.


Why shouldn't you have the same EC-300s/600s as other ships


Because its a drone ship without the slot penalty


So basically fly an Ishtar
Imiarr Timshae
Funny Men In Funny Hats
#177 - 2014-04-07 19:20:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Imiarr Timshae
Well I will simply never use my gila again.

Edit : I don't ever use my gila it's so bad already. I guess I'll just continue to never use my gila.

Good work as ever Roll (SARCASM)

Edit : Concerns over Gila

1. Far less damage
2. Inability to use sentry drones.
3. Removal of all shield tanking sentry ships (cruiser class) from the game.
4. Massive lack of adaptability.
5. Un-bonused light drones.

In short - You have nerfed the gila, which was admittedly already one of the worst pirate cruisers.
Phiksus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#178 - 2014-04-07 19:21:37 UTC
This is at least partially addressed in this thread already, but the Cynabal's only real advantages over Vagabond are when it comes to fitting 100mn and especially 720mm as well as the better agility. Even active 100mn seems to be in Vagabond's favor thanks to the advantages in capacitor, resists and active tanking bonus. And now you are nerfing the few things that makes the Cyna a potential competitor to Vagabond's across-the-board superiority, which are extreme freedom in fitting and near frigate-like agility. The Cynabal as it is is still a fine ship thanks to the few areas it still has some advantage to its competitors. If you can figure a good way to change the Angel ships by giving them an unique ability to enhance their inherent abilities in kiting then by all means, but don't hate the ship for the superiority it once had and certainly don't look to punish it for that now. Those times are long gone.

As a side note this looks like case Rifter all over again. At the moment of rebalance the devs state how awesome it still is, and how many times has it been buffed since that statement? 4? Try to forget what ships used to be and look at what they are now and how they will look in the future. Case Cynabal should be easy since you already have its prime competitor to compare it to. And considering it already is generally inferior to the competition there should be only one way for the ship and it certainly is not down.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#179 - 2014-04-07 19:21:45 UTC
BadAssMcKill wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
BadAssMcKill wrote:
Aglais wrote:
Iorga Eeta wrote:
If you're looking for some unique flavor...

The Gila needs at least a 50% bonus to Medium EWar and Combat Utility drone effects. Actually, with the Guristas, a 500% bonus to ECM drone effects wouldn't be out of character, but I suspect that would be way too much for some people. A wing of Vespa EC-600s with a 500% bonus would be like getting hit by two multispectrum jammers on a Blackbird with a Max Skilled pilot.



Please explain to me why a ship whose role includes drone damage requires a bonus to ewar drones. You have ten seconds.


Why shouldn't you have the same EC-300s/600s as other ships


Because its a drone ship without the slot penalty


So basically fly an Ishtar


This has advantages over an ishtar.
Chris Winter
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#180 - 2014-04-07 19:21:53 UTC
Naomi Anthar wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Quote:
As a Rattlesnake pilot, I'm really worried what you're going to do to it.

RIP Rattlesnake.


More like long live rattlesnake ! With Ogres of course ;)).

Yay! I can use slow drones that don't have a chance in hell of making it back into my dronebay before getting blapped off the field!

Wait, what?