Wormholes

Yes it would promote ganking. And that is bad because? ...

Ganking a farming fleet of anyone who has a clue about W-Space is really hard. Most of the time it's just bad people or carebears that get ganked in sleeper sites though.

Those who have a clue about how to farm properly can do it safely with impunity (except prepared log-on traps). Bubbles, pickets, extreme site running speed (10-15 minutes) and the fact that a new inbound signature most likely does not have a full fleet assembled and ready the second it spawns - makes it almost safe. If you just do marauders, MJD out.

For the most part, W-Space PvP is this:

a) Consensual PvP. This is mostly between the larger entities. One comes and says "Wanna play?" and then both brawl and have a good time.
b) Log-on traps. Just look at Quantum Explosion's killboard.
c) Sieges (basically an extension of Log-On traps). Happen kind of rarely - probably least desirable for all parties involved.
d) Ganking farming fleets.

This is a result because nobody "roams" with fleets in W-Space like nullsec people do. FIghts don't escalate at POSes or SOV structures. These instances above summarize W-Space pvp pretty much. The proposed change would make d) more viable against people who are almost immune to it.

For those who are already bad it wouldn't make a difference, since they seem to be bad enough that we can catch them on a regular basis.

I'm not proposing anything like that. You're taking what I would like to see to extremes and not considering the possibilities. I don't really want to have the thread head in a different direction but I will clarify a little.

The changes don't need to be so dramatic and I think people could easily adjust, rather than knowing that their system always spawns a C2 static and running the forgotten whatever has these frigates as triggers. Maybe 90% it's C2, but sometimes the static is a C1 or C3. Maybe you're in a pulsar and you notice that occasionally there is an increase in intensity of color emanating from the pulsar which you know gives everyone an additional 10% shield hp since you've been living there and have noticed. I would much rather see w-space offer some mysteries than have everything explained and wikified. I would prefer a more intuitive method of gameplay that involves sound and visual cues which require knowledge and skill not some 3rd party spreadsheet that explains every aspect down to the hundredth decimal.

Ok, we can basically ignore small 10%ish changes in WH effects, especially on the lower end of the classes.

As far as shifting statics, either the mass limit continues to be determined by the lower level (so that c4's or lower can't bring in caps), or they are altered so that the higher static class WH determines mass limits, in which case we get people from higher levels piling more mass then intended into a lower class. If the mass is determined by the lower limit, then nothing changes overall. Just means you roll your static one more time on the rare occasion you connect to a class you didn't want.

"Dynamic spawns" Just means you always have to bring enough to deal with even the worst possible cases of triggering unidentifieable wave triggers. It's just bad design to force everyone to use ships capable to dealing with double or triple spawns because RNG made the ships shot early the trigger.

As to "intuitive method of gameplay that involves sound and visual cues which require knowledge and skill":

No. Hell no. Never, ever, ever. I and many others play on potato visual settings, with the sound off because I'm being social on coms, multiboxing, and listening to music. If I need to have clients high enough to impart important information via visual effects, and have the sound high enough to let me always determine important audio information, then that greatly cuts into my ability to do things like watch movies or talk on coms, or simply not have my computer explode due to running 5 clients on high settings. No. All information needs to be in a format easily available even at lowest settings with the sound off.

And since I forgot to add it

The comsic anomaly, the thing you scan down, doesn't sit exactly on the WH itself, it's anywhere from a few metres to a few kilometre's. Those who remember back when this entity could decloak you know this well. This deviation also means that the WH's exact location changes over DT as the WH entity itself is respawned. As such, warping to zero on a pre DT BM of a WH can mean you end up 5-6 kilometres away after DT. The current deviation amount feels like a bug and either should be

Fixed so they sit exact on top of one another at all times
Made into a feature where the deviation is made anywhere up to 125km away from the cosmic anomaly.
Making it into a feature would also allow some crazy things like respawning the WH itself on the same grid in a different location every hour or so. Would certainly make WH fights interesting if the WH was shifting around on grid every so often.

This change only make sense if the same is done for local in every part of Eve, for pilots entering a system via a stargate or a WH.
They should not appear in local for the same amount of time (may be linked to the mass of their ship as suggested).

otherwise, it will unfairly affect the W H players.

CCP, please stay fair in this issue. As the concept is a good one, but there is no reason to only apply it only to WH residents.

No you're wrong sorry. You've listed the above and also listed the counters for it. For every single one there is a recreation and a counter for that recreation if the player/s are committed enough to doing it.
So if you want to gank a farming fleet you have already said there IS a way of doing it it's just not YOUR way of doing it because it requires dedication time and planning.

So instead you opt for a mechanic that has absolutely NO counter at all because you're lazy and probably who the instant overlay was designed for anyway.

What I think myself Bane, Proc and a whole slew of people are trying to tell you is this .......... if you move WH's from "safe if vigilant" to "absolutely no chance of seeing potential threats until you are pointed and bubbled" you are not only going to remove people from those WH's in their droves but they also take the ganks you are looking for with them.

Short term thinking man.

If any change then this is the only sensible. Stop making k162 dependant on player action.

Disclaimer: this is not my wormhole character, I'm too lazy to log over.

In my eyes it would be way over the top if the incoming sig were undetectable. If you cannot scan it down it becomes impossible to get a warning even if you are attentive. While I'd love if people wouldn't immediately scatter once I warp to the WH and the K162 spawns not giving them any way to detect there are hostiles inbound is not balanced either.

I'd love to see a way that offers protection to those who pay attention but punishes those who don't. That said I also found the constant spamming of d-scan and/or the probes exceedingly annoying, but it's preferable to the automated warning that's present now as well as the almost guaranteed gank that was proposed.

Fozzie and CSMs,
sorry for the earlier grouching in this thread. It took me a while to understand the impact of the proposed changes.

Let me explain my thoughts on why this could actually work with some tweaking (mainly low class WH dweller point of few):

Who would benefit form that change?
Not only can C5 and C6 groups roll their statics to other C5+s more reliably in one go but also with about half the number of accounts involved compared to a typical lower class WH static. While C5+ groups with lower class static “should” have the numbers to abuse the proposed mechanic to their advantage, who chain rolls lower class WH statics for PvP anyways? Way to painful, way too few targets!
It is needless to say that most lower class WH groups don’t have the numbers to roll in one go on a daily basis. Most of their PvP (from my experience) comes from their chain or people trying to crush connection a WH or do something else foolish.
The main benefiter from the proposed changes would be C5+ dwellers with a static that allows for capitals to pass. They could chain roll till they find their prey. Only chance to adapt to that threat at this point would be a lucky d-scan before the scout cloaks. After that something is tackled and the fleet on standby has a warpin.
Also not mentioned before: This would also apply to not activated WHs in your chain. This change would clearly benefit groups that scout their surroundings. Something I like doing. 

Is this balanced?
I think the negative impact for lower class WH dwellers would be far less severe than anticipated in this thread. Again: Who chain rolls lower class WHs for PvP? In my experience you roll for a new chain but chain rolling for PvP in the static not so much. The fear of C6 guys rolling their C4 static for PvP is more or less hypothetical. However, I think this can be addressed with little tweaking. More on this later.

So what about C5+ capital escalation farmers?
Well, if C5+ PvPers start chainrolling like mad the 5-men-alt-farming-group will be screwed. I could care less. But what would be the impact for the “real” dwellers? It is not uncommon to have 20+ dreadnoughts in your “home fortress” (I was told that a certain group moved more than 100 dreads when they moved to a new home) and I am certain that larger groups can easily adapt to the proposed changes. The aggressor can only bring so and so many ships. But to be honest I know too little about “big scale” WH engagements and can only speculate here.

One thing is sure; this will certainly raise the barrier for new groups to move into a C5 or higher.

Tweaking for the C1 guy that didn’t sign up for the same risk as the C6 guys?
While I think this could actually work, there are some severe drawbacks. Only going to talk about one here: “C1 guys did not sign up for the same risk as the C6 guys”

This needs to be addressed.

A potential better solution than the stuff suggested already would/could be an actual delay base on the WH class difference, e.g.

Standard Delay = sD (This is a set constant, for instance this could be 55 s)
Incoming WH class = Ic
Target WH class = Tc
Actual Delay = aD

If incoming WH class (Ic) is equal to the target WH class (Tc) the actual delay (aD) is:
aD = sD.
If incoming WH class (Ic) is greater than the target WH class (Tc) the actual delay (aD) is:
aD = sD * 1/[2*(Iw-Tw)]
and If Ic < Tc the actual delay is:
aD = sD * 1/[2*(Tw-Iw)].

This means that a C6-C4 connection which got activated from the C6 side would only give ¼ of the standard delay. However if it got opened from the C4 side (K162 from the C6 side) the C4 guys would have four times the standard delay to assemble a fleet.
This still does not protect C4 guys from C6 guys coming via a C3 ->C4 static that the C6 guys opened. But hey good scouting needs to be rewarded and the backup is probably a few WH out then.
This is a very simplistic formula. It would be just as easy to factor in the target system class by adding another factor, e.g. *6/(7-Tc). To a degree that C1-C3 dwellers almost feel no difference.

Do I like this idea? Not realy!
I fear that this mechanic could result in too random ganks. I really like to be in control of the risks I take and we take risks every day in WHs. That is what we came in for!
Also I think that a broad spectrum of activities should be accomplishable in WH space, including mining. People should come to w-space not only for sleepers, PI and pew.
My little group would be severely impacted by these changes since we make our ISK in our C5 static and this would become a target for chain rolling and the delay. I guess we can adapt. C5s should not be risk free. 
This would be very rewarding for groups that scout a lot. Maybe we can get the same delay for local if we enter k-space from WHs??? Please, these null bears need to be ganked!

If capital escalation farming is the problem you try to fix maybe there are simpler solutions?
A SleeperAssemblyLine at the sun comes to mind. This is an NPC structure at the sun that assembles the sleepers while pulling resources and energy directly from the sun. This structure could have a RF timer in the range of 6h and if it gets destroyed no more sleepers will spawn in that system until it reassembles itself a month later. Also all remaining sleepers will flee to other systems. There is your conflict driver without the stupid POS bashing. Static farmers already take high risks, home farmers need to defend these structure.
Also capital escalations spawns could be changed so a lot more teamwork (more than triage, web and blab) is needed to clear them.

If lack of pew is the problem?
Give groups a way to increase the chance of incoming K162s from similar class WHs. Make WHs attractive for more people, e.g. fix these old POSes and risk to assets which makes it hard to recruit in a game like EvE.

I realise I'm late to the party, and I don't want to read 32 pages, so apologies if this has been suggested.

I was originally quite vocal about the original changes, I would still prefer that people had to work for their intel, and think that requiring vigilant players protecting the fleet is an absolutely fair counter to the risk of being jumped, when weighing up the rewards to be had in w-space. So ideally I would like the old behaviour back, requiring players to actually use probes to know that a new signature was present.

If that is completely off the table how about tying dungeon visibility to ship visibility. The signature remains undetectable for as long as no ship has de-cloaked on grid. As soon as cloak is broken to warp, launch probes, jump back, whatever, then the signature is visible to all.

This gives enough time to perform the limited number of actions you can perform before you are *required* to de-cloak (either by choice or by force). Skilled scouts will be able to use this to full potential, while bunglers will alert everyone to their presence as is currently the case.

It might let you narrow down a point in space where there is a ship, but you will have to launch probes to pinpoint further, so using this time effectively is paramount.

It might let you exclude half the system of targets, but require you to warp to look at the other half, still giving you an edge.

If you're good (or lucky), it might even let you fully locate a gang in space.

If you're bad then you'll de-cloak and be no better off.

If your fleet is bad then you'll get to shout "I told you to hold cloak!" on comms.