These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Wormholes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Potential Idea for Discussion: Delaying signature appearance for K162s

First post First post First post
Author
Schwa Nuts
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#481 - 2014-03-25 00:08:30 UTC
Vanessa Serenity wrote:
I approve if the change will apply to k-space local aswell. There is way too little risk farming in null. Just dock whenever someone enters local. Where is the risk vs. reward in that?


Stop trying to turn nullsec into w-space.
Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#482 - 2014-03-25 00:09:07 UTC
Tyrant Scorn wrote:

If you look at post #12,

Quote:
making a K162 unprobable is not an option I support, Fozzie

Just pointing out how you seem to have missed that CSM9 candidate's post.

Minister of High Society | Twitter: @autoritare

E-mail: diogenes.proc@gmail.com

My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/

The Diogenes Club | Join W-Space | Down The Pipe

Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#483 - 2014-03-25 00:10:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
Jack Miton wrote:
Two step wrote:
PVE in w-space shouldn't be safe, at all, ever. You should *always* be watching over your shoulder.

yes, you SHOULD need to watch over your shoulder all the time, but if you ARE watching, you should NOT be punished by stupid mechanics that make your watching irrelevant.


Rare when I thumbs up Milton.

This is on par of every suggestion ever made in lowsec and nullsec about local.

Remove local.. Riot
Delay local... Riot
Proximity local... Riot

Why the heck is this even considered a good idea for wormhole space? We have no local and rely on a finite range scanner and probes that take time to scan to get a possible signature and maybe a hit on a ship that may or maynot be there..

This suggestion is a bad.. Bad... BAD mechanic. I'm shocked that this is being considered when this would be rejected by any other sane person in this game..

I want to bring the fight, not make people feel like they failed because they cannot get past a mechanic they have no way of getting by (at this point it's not even a concept of misunderstanding the mechanic, it's purely a one sided slap in the face for everybody in wormhole space, wrapped in the minutely veiled argument that it would bring pvp).

Yaay!!!!

Sith1s Spectre
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#484 - 2014-03-25 00:18:59 UTC
All this idea looks like is risk free rage rolling for ganks. Don't Luke the hole? Don't worry, you have 5 mins to roll it away before they can scan it down

Resident forum troll and fashion consultant

Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#485 - 2014-03-25 00:34:46 UTC
I like the descovery scanner but without probes, there should be a delay for the appearance of ALL signature. This falls into the free intel bracket, something which CCP say they don't like.

Tyrant Scorn
#486 - 2014-03-25 00:51:47 UTC
Would a small Townhall meeting on TeamSpeak be a good idea to discuss ideas and opinions or maybe I could gather some prominent wormholers and have a discussion and live stream it. I would be willing to go as far as getting CSM members to join us and talk about it with actual wormholers and have people from both sides discussing this issue.

Would that be a good idea ?

Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#487 - 2014-03-25 01:04:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Tyrant Scorn wrote:
Would a small Townhall meeting on TeamSpeak be a good idea to discuss ideas and opinions or maybe I could gather some prominent wormholers and have a discussion and live stream it. I would be willing to go as far as getting CSM members to join us and talk about it with actual wormholers and have people from both sides discussing this issue.

Would that be a good idea ?


Dunno. It couldn't hurt. But honestly, we already have quite a cross section of WH players from differing levels here discussing it, including several current and former (And quite probably future) CSM members. If you feel like it, go ahead, but I doubt you will be getting any significantly different responses from the consensus of the thread.

Plus if you leave out the representatives of the lower level holes due to not having large prominent groups (who prob outnumber the high levels in total) then you get accused of bias in favor of c5/c6 groups who are the more efamous of the WH corps/alliances.

I mean, how many c1-4 corps can you actually name as significant?
BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation
Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
#488 - 2014-03-25 01:07:15 UTC
Tyrant Scorn wrote:
Would a small Townhall meeting on TeamSpeak be a good idea to discuss ideas and opinions or maybe I could gather some prominent wormholers and have a discussion and live stream it. I would be willing to go as far as getting CSM members to join us and talk about it with actual wormholers and have people from both sides discussing this issue.

Would that be a good idea ?



What this needs more than anything is more info from Fozzie. Peoples definition of minutes is obviously wildly all over the place person to person so until that's more settled it's all pretty pointless.

For me that's more than 1 minute, less than 5 minutes. Timer starts upon initialising warp to the WH.

Ideally for me 60s to 120s, more on the lower than the upper on that. That covers all the current side shenanigans and equals things more or less up on the K162 side.
That's also assuming NO OTHER CHANGES
Calvyr Travonis
The Martial Virtues Foundation
#489 - 2014-03-25 01:10:00 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We investigated what would be involved with delaying the appearance of signatures on the sensor overlay, but that solution is somewhat unsatisfactory since players could always return to the old trick of spamming probe scans to check for the new sigs. Basically, the Sensor Overlay had only made the existing problem more visible, and it would be better if we could get right to the source.


I don't see this as any kind of problem at all. In fact, I still use this technique while running sites. It's the best way to stay safe because there's already a delay in the signature showing up, unless you happen to see it pop up in space, which I never have. Overall, I don't like the proposal at all. I've caught many people while hunting that didn't see me open into them. Those that stay vigilant and scout their system properly should be rewarded while those that can't be bothered, punished by hunters.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#490 - 2014-03-25 01:10:24 UTC
Tyrant Scorn wrote:
Would a small Townhall meeting on TeamSpeak be a good idea to discuss ideas and opinions or maybe I could gather some prominent wormholers and have a discussion and live stream it. I would be willing to go as far as getting CSM members to join us and talk about it with actual wormholers and have people from both sides discussing this issue.

Would that be a good idea ?



Yes it will, and also it depends.

The main reason of the "it depends" part is that there seem to be certain members of the community that has this set in stone (aka they won't budge).

And I am afraid this might turn into one of those town hall meetings where people voice their concern of a direction a governing body is going, and then the governing body goes does it anyway. If you got the right support, aka those with an open mind of the community, and not a narrow view of addressing an issue vs acknowledging the actual underlying problem.. then yes it will do wonders. Asking that though is like asking UPS to Deliver Lava to the North Pole.

Townhalls are not about who listens, its about who hears you. With that said, hold it. If (someone) hears us.. progress is made. Sometimes someone just has to do SOMETHING when nothing is being done in order to wake people up.

Because right now no one is listening, and no one is hearing. The arguments made, debunked, and for the most part, nobody likes the direction. But they are not hearing you.

I would do it, write the entire thing down, put a petition up, print out everybody who signs the petition, print it, bind the write up and the petition in a book, bind it, mail a physical copy to everybody in CCP headquarters because an email will probably get deleted.

At least several garbage bags of this wormhole memorandum will **** off their garbage lady.

Yaay!!!!

Tyrant Scorn
#491 - 2014-03-25 01:12:14 UTC
Anhenka wrote:

Plus if you leave out the representatives of the lower level holes due to not having large prominent groups (who prob outnumber the high levels in total) then you get accused of bias in favor of c5/c6 groups who are the more efamous of the WH corps/alliances.

I mean, how many c1-4 corps can you actually name as significant?


I see your point on the lower class wormholers but it's not anybody's fault but their own that they don't have a representative. I would call myself a lower class wormholer but I would also say I am in a league of my own because I don't live out of a POS and I don't do corporation or alliance level PvP... I have in the past though.


NinjaTurtle
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#492 - 2014-03-25 01:12:48 UTC
A town hall with this little information on a huge mechanic change would be completely pointless.
Picture rolls of tinfoil being thrown across a packed room.
Tyrant Scorn
#493 - 2014-03-25 01:16:57 UTC
NinjaTurtle wrote:
A town hall with this little information on a huge mechanic change would be completely pointless.
Picture rolls of tinfoil being thrown across a packed room.


It would be with current CSM members, who have discussed this topic with CCP. This idea has been floating around in CSM circles for a while... So they can surely add valuable information regarding mechanics.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#494 - 2014-03-25 01:19:15 UTC
Tyrant Scorn wrote:
NinjaTurtle wrote:
A town hall with this little information on a huge mechanic change would be completely pointless.
Picture rolls of tinfoil being thrown across a packed room.


It would be with current CSM members, who have discussed this topic with CCP. This idea has been floating around in CSM circles for a while... So they can surely add valuable information regarding mechanics.


If this town hall does not turn into a pitch to sell the idea... sure
... but its going to turn into a pitch to sell the idea...

Yaay!!!!

NinjaTurtle
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#495 - 2014-03-25 01:29:08 UTC
Tyrant Scorn wrote:
NinjaTurtle wrote:
A town hall with this little information on a huge mechanic change would be completely pointless.
Picture rolls of tinfoil being thrown across a packed room.


It would be with current CSM members, who have discussed this topic with CCP. This idea has been floating around in CSM circles for a while... So they can surely add valuable information regarding mechanics.


and the NDA will still prevent them from giving us anything of meaning, outside of anecdotal wisdom and gentle coddling if you're into that sort of thing.
Tyrant Scorn
#496 - 2014-03-25 01:32:53 UTC
NinjaTurtle wrote:
Tyrant Scorn wrote:
NinjaTurtle wrote:
A town hall with this little information on a huge mechanic change would be completely pointless.
Picture rolls of tinfoil being thrown across a packed room.


It would be with current CSM members, who have discussed this topic with CCP. This idea has been floating around in CSM circles for a while... So they can surely add valuable information regarding mechanics.


and the NDA will still prevent them from giving us anything of meaning, outside of anecdotal wisdom and gentle coddling if you're into that sort of thing.


My primary concern is to make sure that if the overall majority of wormhole space doesn't want a certain change, the current CSM members are in line with this and that we don't get to see CSM members voicing a different opinion then what the actual community wants. Then CSM members would mis-represent the community, and that is unacceptable.

We can have a discussion about this subject without breaking the NDA.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#497 - 2014-03-25 01:41:03 UTC
This WAS discussed at the last CSM town hall, basically everyone hated it.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Tyrant Scorn
#498 - 2014-03-25 01:42:02 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
This WAS discussed at the last CSM town hall, basically everyone hated it.


Then I think CCP missed it because why bring it up after grading the community... Seems weird to me.
NinjaTurtle
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#499 - 2014-03-25 01:45:44 UTC
Tyrant Scorn wrote:
NinjaTurtle wrote:
Tyrant Scorn wrote:
NinjaTurtle wrote:
A town hall with this little information on a huge mechanic change would be completely pointless.
Picture rolls of tinfoil being thrown across a packed room.


It would be with current CSM members, who have discussed this topic with CCP. This idea has been floating around in CSM circles for a while... So they can surely add valuable information regarding mechanics.


and the NDA will still prevent them from giving us anything of meaning, outside of anecdotal wisdom and gentle coddling if you're into that sort of thing.


My primary concern is to make sure that if the overall majority of wormhole space doesn't want a certain change, the current CSM members are in line with this and that we don't get to see CSM members voicing a different opinion then what the actual community wants. Then CSM members would mis-represent the community, and that is unacceptable.

We can have a discussion about this subject without breaking the NDA.


I do understand your concern and concur with the intent: a majority decision is always better. Unfortunately there is no existing quantitative metric for these kinds of things and tbh, townhalls tend to be much more 'qualitative' than a widely accessible forum post.
Tyrant Scorn
#500 - 2014-03-25 01:50:24 UTC
NinjaTurtle wrote:
I do understand your concern and concur with the intent: a majority decision is always better. Unfortunately there is no existing quantitative metric for these kinds of things and tbh, townhalls tend to be much more 'qualitative' than a widely accessible forum post.


Yeah, I agree it's hard to get a good insight but I think on this particular issue we can clearly see what the overall community thinks of a delay feature.