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If nullsec is such a land of milk and honey, with no risk because of reasons X, Y, and Z, and "virtually empty" to boot; why aren't you out here mining and ratting in these mythical belts of plenty?

This statement is not entirely true. The entire fabric that the current economy is based on will be changed by this. The Goon narrative is that this is good for EvE and that nothing is really changing here. This is not the case.

Right now most production occurs in high sec. Isk, raw high end null minerals, flow out of null and into high sec. Finished goods and low ends (compressed mins) flow out to null sec. Minerals are the lifeblood - bought - sold - reprocessed endlessly.

These changes turn that narrative around. Minerals are no longer that lifeblood - compressed ore blocks are. Now unprocessed ore from high sec will flow out to null and finished goods back to high sec.

Here is the problem. Nobody in high sec can compete when you start at a 20% disadvantage. New players learning the game will not be able make isk and prosper. The number and options that are available as professions is reduced to new players. You can mine and sell ore for compression...you can go try scanning... But the doors of industry are slammed shut by the multinationals who will manipulate the mineral markets. Salvaging...gone as a profession.

I don't see how null can provide the volumes of goods back to high sec that are required. Not because of a lack of slots but a lack of security for moving the finished goods.

This is not as Baltec refers a simple buff to null refine. This is a significant change to the economy and what looks like a social experiment by CCP on forcing gameplay - the old join an alliance and move to null game.

CCP do any of you remember SWG....they toyed around and significantly altered the game. Where are they now?

I am not saying null industry does not need some TLC, in fact it does....but I am not sure that this is the solution.

And for the record I live in null, I build in null, and I would not live back in high sec for all the tea in China.

As I said, I am operating in NPC 0.0 and I found that belt ratting and salvaging/looting works very well for me in terms of being difficult to catch and annoying the hell out of cloaky campers, the come in and go AFK and a couple of hours later they come back to their keyboard to find me next door, so they jump in there and come back a couple hours later to find me in the original system, they cannot stop me, I am using the space something that you don't understand and my strategies and tactics are designed to use the space effectively. Of course you do not understand it, as you are PLAYING AT A DIFFERENT LEVEL, or in a different sandbox.

But CCP has come along and cut my mineral production by 50% in terms of reprocessing modules, its a major hit. So running level 4's make no difference, going ice mining makes no difference, they were irrelevant comments so I made an equally irrelevant one back about you doing this in 0.0, just like your unfitted BS rubbish.

Of course I know how much you get from belt ratting, but my fun comes from more than just the act of belt ratting, its from being in that space, but along comes CCP and makes belt ratting even worse, way to go CCP especially when they want people to go to 0.0 and operate there. But of course you don't see it, you are playing a different game where ISK/hour is king and ship losses are covered by your vast income from moon goo and rental income of stupid serfs, well thats your game, it is not my game.

I'm by no means not interested in not gaining ISK, but I don't seek to make the most possible ISK in all things I do, my way of playing this game is to enjoy it, not to make it more of a job and chore than it already is. I actually want to and do enjoy making ISK the way I do it, making it leisurely and with a lot of the different aspects the game offers.

So safety is the issue after all? You want to be (perfectly, I assume?) safe in an environment that is driven by player conflict? Do you realize you are contradicting all your previous Risk vs Reward talk with that? You can make tons of ISK with ratting, PI, mining, moon mining and exploration combined when compared to High sec, you already have all the tools and possibilities at your hand to make x times more ISK in 00 sec than in High sec if only you would use them. But what do you do? You concentrate on ratting, you do what everyone also does in High sec, you want to make more ISK with the exact same things that people in High sec does. How can you possibly expect more reward if you do exactly the same?

Why base refining on implants so much? Without implants under the new system you will get LESS minerals even with level 5 skills. Surely it would be better to scrap the implant altogether and refund people with it, then boost the yield the individual ore refining skills give you to compensate. Industrial implants (except mining) only encourage the use of alts and add NOTHING to gameplay whatsoever.

Also, please please please STOP changing skill names. There was nothing wrong with 'Electronics', 'Engineering', 'Multitasking', ect.. and certainly not with 'Refining'. Noone seems to like the changes, and to say the old skills were meaningless is not true, as the new skills make a mockery of the Science skills - for example to train 'Electronic Engineering' you used to need 'Electronics' and 'Engineering' maxed (which makes sense), now its 'CPU Management' and 'Power Grid Management', which is totally and utterly meaningless.

though we talking here not about bots, so why player owned outpost must have highest refine rates? why wh residents won't get the same refine rates? why we can't get the same refine rates in pos?

Because not only do WH dwellers risk less but we also would have the issue of a lowsec POS parked next door to highsec offering the same refine rate as a null station. Nobody would use the null station in that situation as you get the same refine rate in a lowsec pos for less risk, effort and cost.

I like the set out goals and most of the changes!
And say most, as in some respects they didn't wend far enough to my liking (see end of post).

The main thing players need to recognize is that these changes bring a crucial industrial activity (refining/recycling) in line with mining and to some extend, transport and production, with respect to exposure to PvP. It is no longer a risk free and free service if you want all you can get out of it.

Well, now i own a bunch of useless blueprints, who cares. I sure don't.

CCP did not wend far enough with the changes, because:

1. There is still virtually instant processing capacity.

Not only is this unrealistic, but also unbalanced versus other industrial activities like mining and production. Thus recycling remains the odd step in the chain!

2. There is still unlimited capacity at stations.

Compare recycling (a heavy industrial activity) with blueprint research. For research there are a certain number of slots available at a location, it makes sense to do the same with recycling. It should take time and there has to be a limit to how much can be recycled at a given time at a location.

I find this important as it would break the insane clustering that is Jita. It would spread out a step of the manufacturing, to other parts of space and no longer make Jita a hub for mineral resources and hence the cluster all production tries to center around. It would also reduce its importance relative to other locations. And it will reduce the extreme importance of the standings of one faction above all others.

This simple change alone would bring a sandbox quality to the industrial side of EVE and even stretch far beyond it. I sincerely see this as a missed opportunity. One that also highlights the extreme importance to keep in game mechanics logical and reasonable within the sci-fi setting of EVE. Because the side effects of not doing so can be severe!

Still telling the young folks lies Baltec.

120M+ Easy in NS Anoms/Plexs. Unless you are risk averse and fly around in an Ishtar. Go use the right tool for the job, if you can't then you are not doing it right.

272% more Isk/m3 in NS compared to HS. If you can't you aren't doing it right.

NS is overall SAFER than HS. Provided you actually play with people who undock. If you disagree you aren't doing it right.

It has nothing to do with Risk/Reward. Over 3/4 of your systems are Empty (same applies to N3) No one mines. Yet you feel you are entitled to a handout. Pathetic and FYI. You can get locked out of station in LS, don't even get a fancy timer to form up for to prevent it from happening either.

If null is as good as you say and better than high se then why is it empty? Why do even the bots crowd into high sec?


Nobody is buying your rubbish. 120 mil in anoms? How? Not even vindicators can get that.