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[Serious Discussion] This game's community leaves much to be desired

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#581 - 2014-03-16 03:07:52 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Maybe if the unknown Joe didn't throw a childish tantrum every time something doesn't go his way, in a computer game, then people wouldn't try to harvest his anger and anguish.

It takes 2 to tango.


Oh, so much this. I didn't start tear harvesting because I felt like it. I started it because the so called "victims" make such a fuss over a videogame that it's hilarious. If you saw a grown man stub his toe and start screaming to the sky about how God needs to get all the pebbles off the sidewalk, you'd laugh too.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#582 - 2014-03-16 03:11:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Divine Entervention
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ummm in a healthy individual ingame and RL behaviour are decoupled. If they weren't I'd be wanting a selection of clones, a supercarrier sat in the garage next to my corpse collection and lasers that go pewpewpew.


So you admit you are of poor ethical character because you are willing to convince yourself that ethical standards do not apply to your self in a particular context, by separating moral reactions from inhumane conduct by disabling the mechanism of self-condemnation because you are sitting at your computer?

In a game driven by your choices? In a game where you decide how you wish to play.
Anslo
Scope Works
#583 - 2014-03-16 03:11:20 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Maybe if the unknown Joe didn't throw a childish tantrum every time something doesn't go his way, in a computer game, then people wouldn't try to harvest his anger and anguish.

It takes 2 to tango.


Oh, so much this. I didn't start tear harvesting because I felt like it. I started it because the so called "victims" make such a fuss over a videogame that it's hilarious. If you saw a grown man stub his toe and start screaming to the sky about how God needs to get all the pebbles off the sidewalk, you'd laugh too.

It's so cute. I'm relevant and a bad ass cause I can make bears cry! But I can't actually get together a fleet or be relevant beyond tear collecting...but it's cool! I'm cool guys, right?

...guise?

Hue.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#584 - 2014-03-16 03:11:28 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:

The very real connection between the actions taking place in game is they're being enacted based on the choices of the person in real life. The person in real life making the choices is the connection. If you were not in game making those choices, then they wouldn't be existing within with world of EvE. You are making it happen of your own volition.
More psychobabble bollocks, have you considered writing an article for a journalistic publication such as the Daily Mail or National Enquirer? They lap up shite like this.

Quote:
Right now, you are typing to me on the forums. Is it not you typing to me? Who is it then, that is conversing with me right now? Based on your actions within the confines of these forums, I'm able to label and judge you how I see fit according to my belief system which is rooted in reality. Because I know in reality, there's a human being choosing to sit at his computer and perform the action of conversing with me.
Your belief system is not rooted in reality, it's rooted in your own ego.

Quote:
You are disconnected from yourself and your own actions if you fail to see that you are the cause of your own actions, in real life, in a game, on forums, driving in your car, watching tv, whatever. Within reality, which you are sitting pretending you're imaginary, you are you.
Reality is real, Eve, despite CCPs claim to the contrary is fantasy. The difference between you and I is that I can differentiate between reality and fantasy.

Quote:
Nowhere in EvE's EULA does it state I'm not allowed to think of anyone how I wish. Though I do not, I'm allowed to think every CCP employee is stupid( I do not!!!!!!), but do they try to prevent me from doing so? No, only you are.

You state the result of my conclusion is that it emerges into my opinion of defining who is and who isn't a bad person. But the same side of that same coin is you've reached a conclusion that I believe in some "utter bollocks". Yet your arrival at your conclusion is some how more justified than mine and should hold more validity? Nope, because you fail to understand the connection between you and reality.
As I stated earlier, if you keep you opinion, based on their ingame actions, of someone within the game then that's fine, taking that opinion outside of game is not. If you wish to judge me in real life, then judge me on my actions in real life, not my actions within a computer game. My conclusion is not based on your actions within the game, it is based on your actions on this forum, which in the case of GD is generally out of character, as opposed to incharcter.

Quote:
You're trying to oppress my ability to have an opinion different than yours.
And when you try to tell me you're not trying to oppress my ability to have an opinion, just my ability to speak it, I'll respond with, Why do you feel you get to judge who is allowed to speak their opinion and who can? Let me guess, whoever agrees with you can keep talking, but everyone who disagrees needs to shut up. . . Which would result in you being a controlling, delusional, narcissistic, psychopath. . . . Only if that's how you feel though.

So tell me again about my choice of having an opinion and speaking it?
I'm not trying to oppress your opinion, I'm merely pointing out the huge great holes in the logic behind it, as far as I'm concerned you can keep on spewing forth your ill considered thoughts as much as you like, and I will continue to point out the holes in them.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#585 - 2014-03-16 03:13:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Mandarine
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

In what way is actively playing a computer game not playing a computer game?


Maybe if the unknown Joe didn't throw a childish tantrum every time something doesn't go his way, in a computer game, then people wouldn't try to harvest his anger and anguish.

It takes 2 to tango.


Ummm in a healthy individual ingame and RL behaviour are decoupled. If they weren't I'd be wanting a selection of clones, a supercarrier sat in the garage next to my corpse collection and lasers that go pewpewpew.



- They develop glee by witnessing their own selves (i:e. not their character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which they have created by using a video game as a platform.
Now consider the reveries of many gamers imagining their favorite character, whom they impersonate, waging battles, solving puzzles, interacting in some form or another with other player-controlled characters, all in the environment of the game, and you can see who is playing a game, and who is just using it to harvest Schadenfreude without caring about the ingame narrative.


- You cannot expect people who play a game just to play well, a game, not to get slightly irritated when being targeted by people whose only purpose is to make them mad, and who couldn´t care less about play pretending or developign an ingame narrative


- A healthy individual who can relate to other people and feel some kind of empathy, will unconsciously agree to certain fundamental truths regarding interactions with others, when there is communication, verbal or not, and regardless of context.


Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
If you saw a grown man stub his toe and start screaming to the sky about how God needs to get all the pebbles off the sidewalk, you'd laugh too.


There are not many people who enjoy being audience to others´ pain or embarassment. Those who do usually have deep issues.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#586 - 2014-03-16 03:15:31 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
I'm not trying to oppress your opinion, I'm merely pointing out the huge great holes in the logic behind it, as far as I'm concerned you can keep on spewing forth your ill considered thoughts as much as you like, and I will continue to point out the holes in them.


The only hole in either of our arguments is that you fail to realize the connection between the reactions in eve being of your initial action.

You are delusional.

If I'm playing EvE mining rocks, and you do not log in to blow me up, do you ever blow me up?

So it's perfectly possible to exist in the game without you blowing me up, yet you make the choice to log in, find me, and blow me up.

The only reason bad things happen to people within EvE is because some people make the decision to make those bad things happen.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#587 - 2014-03-16 03:15:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Divine Entervention wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ummm in a healthy individual ingame and RL behaviour are decoupled. If they weren't I'd be wanting a selection of clones, a supercarrier sat in the garage next to my corpse collection and lasers that go pewpewpew.


So you admit you are of poor ethical character because you are willing to convince yourself that ethical standards do not apply to your self in a particular context, by separating moral reactions from inhumane conduct by disabling the mechanism of self-condemnation because you are sitting at your computer?

In a game driven by your choices? In a game where you decide how you wish to play.
Wow, which particular orifice did this gem spring from?

My real life ethical standards apply to real life, where they are the norm. Context is everything, in the context of Eve my real life moral standards are a weakness, which others will exploit.

Divine Entervention wrote:
[
The only hole in either of our arguments is that you fail to realize the connection between the reactions in eve being of your initial action.

You are delusional.
Nope, I can distinguish between the realms of reality and fantasy, yes it's me playing a character in a game, yes it's me making choices, but I make those choices knowing full well that it is a game where I will cause no physical harm by doing so. I'm not going to come up to you in the street, bludgeon you into unconsciousness and steal your wallet in real life because that would be wrong, doing it in something like GTA is not wrong, it's the norm.

Quote:
If I'm playing EvE mining rocks, and you do not log in to blow me up, do you ever blow me up?

So it's perfectly possible to exist in the game without you blowing me up, yet you make the choice to log in, find me, and blow me up.
Nope, I generally don't go around killing miners, I'll just mine their rocks out from under them instead.

Quote:
The only reason bad things happen to people within EvE is because some people make the decision to make those bad things happen.
Those bad things are inflicted within the context of the game, where those things are explicitly allowed. If those people did the same in real life they would be punished for doing so, because those things are explicitly not allowed.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#588 - 2014-03-16 03:16:04 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Maybe if the unknown Joe didn't throw a childish tantrum every time something doesn't go his way, in a computer game, then people wouldn't try to harvest his anger and anguish.

It takes 2 to tango.


Oh, so much this. I didn't start tear harvesting because I felt like it. I started it because the so called "victims" make such a fuss over a videogame that it's hilarious. If you saw a grown man stub his toe and start screaming to the sky about how God needs to get all the pebbles off the sidewalk, you'd laugh too.

It's so cute. I'm relevant and a bad ass cause I can make bears cry! But I can't actually get together a fleet or be relevant beyond tear collecting...but it's cool! I'm cool guys, right?

...guise?

Hue.


If you're going to call me out and refuse to not fight in a fleet, you don't get to keep crying about it. If you have a problem with me, come find me and duel/gank/bump/wardec me. But don't get butthurt because I refuse to jump through hoops for you.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Anslo
Scope Works
#589 - 2014-03-16 03:17:25 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Maybe if the unknown Joe didn't throw a childish tantrum every time something doesn't go his way, in a computer game, then people wouldn't try to harvest his anger and anguish.

It takes 2 to tango.


Oh, so much this. I didn't start tear harvesting because I felt like it. I started it because the so called "victims" make such a fuss over a videogame that it's hilarious. If you saw a grown man stub his toe and start screaming to the sky about how God needs to get all the pebbles off the sidewalk, you'd laugh too.

It's so cute. I'm relevant and a bad ass cause I can make bears cry! But I can't actually get together a fleet or be relevant beyond tear collecting...but it's cool! I'm cool guys, right?

...guise?

Hue.


If you're going to call me out and refuse to not fight in a fleet, you don't get to keep crying about it. If you have a problem with me, come find me and duel/gank/bump/wardec me. But don't get butthurt because I refuse to jump through hoops for you.

Why would I wardec an alt of a loud mouthed coward? I prove my point with every one of your **** posts :3

get rekt, nerd.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#590 - 2014-03-16 03:19:11 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ummm in a healthy individual ingame and RL behaviour are decoupled. If they weren't I'd be wanting a selection of clones, a supercarrier sat in the garage next to my corpse collection and lasers that go pewpewpew.


So you admit you are of poor ethical character because you are willing to convince yourself that ethical standards do not apply to your self in a particular context, by separating moral reactions from inhumane conduct by disabling the mechanism of self-condemnation because you are sitting at your computer?

In a game driven by your choices? In a game where you decide how you wish to play.
Wow, which particular orifice did this gem spring from?

My real life ethical standards apply to real life, where they are the norm. Context is everything, in the context of Eve my real life moral standards are a weakness, which others will exploit.


So you let some "sorcery square" define when your ethics are engaged or not.

So you admit you morally disengage your ethics when you play EvE, which means that you are a person who makes the choice when to be ethical and when not, instead of being ethical all the time.

Because you prove to me that there are circumstances when you will choose when to let your ethics apply, I have to conclude that there might be other instances in your life where you're willing to do the wrong thing regardless of whether or not you feel it's right or wrong.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#591 - 2014-03-16 03:21:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Anslo wrote:

Why would I wardec an alt of a loud mouthed coward? I prove my point with every one of your **** posts :3

get rekt, nerd.


Why would I bother to fight a loudmouthed coward who only fights 10 to 1? I prove my point with every blowhard post you make.

How's that Proveldtariat thing doing? Stopped any ganks lately?

Oh, and you're a shitflinging coward who hides in NPC corps, because you got chased out of real ones. There's that too.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Haedonism Bot
People for the Ethical Treatment of Rogue Drones
#592 - 2014-03-16 03:29:27 UTC
I dig this thread.Big smile

Of course, I've only read page 1 so far, and ISD Ezwal already deleted half of it. (Dude, stop doing that, seriously, let the people talk.)

www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#593 - 2014-03-16 03:30:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Divine Entervention wrote:

So you let some "sorcery square" define when your ethics are engaged or not.
If by sorcery square you mean within the confines of the virtual environment provided by CCP then yes you would be correct in that statement

Quote:
So you admit you morally disengage your ethics when you play EvE, which means that you are a person who makes the choice when to be ethical and when not, instead of being ethical all the time.
Once again yes.

Quote:
Because you prove to me that there are circumstances when you will choose when to let your ethics apply, I have to conclude that there might be other instances in your life where you're willing to do the wrong thing regardless of whether or not you feel it's right or wrong.
And this is where you go wrong, just because I'm willing to compromise my moral code in a virtual world, which by its very nature is not reality and where that code could be perceived as a weakness, does not mean I'm willing to compromise it within the real world, unless you threaten me and my family, in which case I have a justified cause for doing so.

In the real world I won't lie to you, steal from you, murder you, kick your dog, shoot your cat or any of the other things that are frowned upon, because it would be wrong to do so.

In an environment like Eve I will do all of the above to you if I feel the need to do so, because it isn't the real world.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Anslo
Scope Works
#594 - 2014-03-16 03:30:56 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Anslo wrote:

Why would I wardec an alt of a loud mouthed coward? I prove my point with every one of your **** posts :3

get rekt, nerd.


Why would I bother to fight a loudmouthed coward who only fights 10 to 1? I prove my point with every blowhard post you make.

How's that Proveldtariat thing doing? Stopped any ganks lately?

Oh, and you're a shitflinging coward who hides in NPC corps, because you got chased out of real ones. There's that too.


I said get a fleet. You refusing to shows you're either a coward or incapable of getting one.

The ganks stopped because people got smarted about how to protect themselves. As I said, I get eve mails about how people enjoyed the info they used to protect themselves. What have you done for eve save for talk big and not delivering?

Hiding in an NPC corp? I didn't realize fighting in lowsec constitutes hiding? Or are you afraid to lose sec status? Whats it say that an NPC corp member is more relevant than youll ever be? And chased out? You mean like how I "gate camp?"

You just get worse and worse. You cant even come up with actual facts for what happens in game.

Ha hahaha, you're pathetic, kid. Enjoy irrelevancy :)

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#595 - 2014-03-16 03:31:12 UTC
Haedonism Bot wrote:
I dig this thread.Big smile

Of course, I've only read page 1 so far, and ISD Ezwal already deleted half of it. (Dude, stop doing that, seriously, let the people talk.)


Ah, he's got a job to do, lay off. Yes, it's voluntary, but if you're going to sign up for something (like stopping ganks in highsec *cough Anslo cough*), then you might as well have the intestinal fortitude to see it through.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Haedonism Bot
People for the Ethical Treatment of Rogue Drones
#596 - 2014-03-16 03:31:23 UTC
Ooh, Anslo is here, I love trolling that dude. I'll be back tomorrow.

www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#597 - 2014-03-16 03:34:12 UTC
Haedonism Bot wrote:
Ooh, Anslo is here, I love trolling that dude. I'll be back tomorrow.


He gets so very upset when you won't fight him on his very specific terms, doesn't he?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#598 - 2014-03-16 03:35:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Divine Entervention
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
And this is where you go wrong, just because I'm willing to compromise my moral code in a virtual world, which by its very nature is not reality and where that code could be perceived as a weakness, does not mean I'm willing to compromise it within the real world.

In the real world I won't lie to you, steal from you, murder you, kick your dog, shoot your cat or any of the other things that are frowned upon, because it would be wrong to do so.

In an environment like Eve I will do all of the above to you if I feel the need to do so, because it isn't the real world.


You are correct in the idea that by choosing to morally disengage from your own conduct that it doesn't necessarily mean you will carry that behavior out of game. I'm not saying you will.

I'm merely explaining that you show a propensity to morally disengage your ethical beliefs. Meaning that since you've proven you'll do it sometimes, who's to say you wont do it again in another context you feel isn't worthy of you needing to maintain your ethical standards?

Because of your proven propensity for such behavior, I'm allowed to classify you as someone who has a propensity to disengage his ethical beliefs depending on his circumstance and treat you as such.

Which is what I'm doing.
Anslo
Scope Works
#599 - 2014-03-16 03:37:31 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Haedonism Bot wrote:
Ooh, Anslo is here, I love trolling that dude. I'll be back tomorrow.


He gets so very upset when you won't fight him on his very specific terms, doesn't he?


Kaar gets so very trollish when you point out that he can never fight back anything but miners~

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#600 - 2014-03-16 03:43:08 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Haedonism Bot wrote:
Ooh, Anslo is here, I love trolling that dude. I'll be back tomorrow.


He gets so very upset when you won't fight him on his very specific terms, doesn't he?


Kaar gets so very trollish when you point out that he can never fight back anything but miners~


If you call me a national socialist, I'll have Miner Bingo. You're a "PvP player", supposedly, but I am pretty sure that Lord James will give me this one.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.