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Null sec what chance does the little guy have

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March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#581 - 2014-02-17 11:25:36 UTC
actually this thread shows why nothing is getting changed in 0.0.

Every idea or fix for 0.0-sov only gets 1x supporter and 100x decliners.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#582 - 2014-02-17 13:11:00 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Barbara Nichole wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

So why have 80% of bots moved into high sec?

The numbers are all there. High sec is simply better for earning isk than null sov space.

This is an old argument and it's flawed. Your numbers do not say what you think they are saying. The only reason there were more botters in high sec is because they could control their losses easier while afk. (btw the numbers of botters anywhere in game is greatly reduced) The profit from mining in null sec still out shines anything in high sec.. but there are fewer people in null sec who care to mine. I know people who mined exclusively in null sec.. and they were very rich. I mined in null sec for the first years of my eve life and it was profitable beyond belief...but residence in null sec is not a done deal. ...no one should know this better than you.

Its also likely statistically flawed. The likely reason that most bots CCP has found are in and around Jita is because of population density and player reporting. Its more likely that bots in and around Jita would be noticed and reported.

Its also likely that null sec bots, even when they're noticed are not reported because the likelihood that bots are blue and blues won't report other blues is very high. Additionally null sec bots are programmed to warp to POS or station when non-blues enter local so its more likely that null sec botting will not be observed by neutrals at all.

The main argument against nerfing highsec to fix null is that it would equate to a buff of null sec. Isk would become more valuable. And of course it doesn't address the main issue, timers, aggression emails and power projection.


Wait CCP numbers are statistically flawed and wrong but, according to you they weren't wrong when they nerfed null bounties so how are they wrong about bots being mostly in highsec? I guess CCP is only wrong when they disagree with your world view. (Not when you catch them back peddling or contradicting their economist though.)

Further proof you and the rest of the pro-highsec people should be ignored.

They're wrong because they're not omnipotent and know where every bot in EVE is. Like I said, bots will be reported more often in high density space and high sec. They will be rarely reported in null because in null they operate on a warp to POS / Station as soon as a nuet or red enters system and blues will not usually report their own blue botters. In fact I have heard that alliance directors in the past advising not to report blues as botters and I've heard that in Goonswarm you're likely to not be appreciated if you report blue botters.


I find it really funny that CCP is only wrong when it doesn't support your view of how EVE should be.

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admiral root
Red Galaxy
#583 - 2014-02-17 13:16:35 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
I find it really funny that CCP is only wrong when it doesn't support your view of how EVE should be.


I blame the nulluminati cartels and their sinister control over CCP.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#584 - 2014-02-17 13:27:15 UTC
admiral root wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
I find it really funny that CCP is only wrong when it doesn't support your view of how EVE should be.


I blame the nulluminati cartels and their sinister control over CCP.


Working as intended of course, which you would know Brother Root had you bothered to attend to last NSC (Nulluminati Steering Committee) meeting that we held in HED (because everyone in null was there, perfect timing though the HED-GP hilton was a bit crowded). I expect to see you at the next one, held 5 minutes from now in O-W.

Our evil plan to have our vassals (CCP) constantly nerf the place we actually play in (null sec) to the point of in-viability so that we can then send everyone to high sec where they are easier to suicide gank (somehow, suicide ganking them in null where there is no CONCORD to magically appear and blow us up is not as fulfilling) which in turn forces them to rent from us has born great fruit. We are particularly pleased with the deployment of the ESS which was the brain child of our loyal brothers in the "F you couch, they shoulda neva gave you hittas money" working group.

Wait. What? is this not the Nulluminati.Mittens.com forum? Damn damn it and damn internet explorer 9.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#585 - 2014-02-17 13:36:25 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Our evil plan to have our vassals (CCP) constantly nerf the place we actually play in (null sec) to the point of in-viability so that we can then send everyone to high sec where they are easier to suicide gank (somehow, suicide ganking them in null where there is no CONCORD to magically appear and blow us up is not as fulfilling) which in turn forces them to rent from us has born great fruit. We are particularly pleased with the deployment of the ESS which was the brain child of our loyal brothers in the "F you couch, they shoulda neva gave you hittas money" working group.


Praise CCP Mittani for this glorious plan. \o/

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#586 - 2014-02-17 14:04:30 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
So at the end of 30 pages it seems that everyone agrees that SovNull is fine for the big guys and the little guys. I mean seriously, read through this thread and all I see is bickering, whining, and general horseshit.

it's impossible to have an actual discussion around npc alts and the various forums cancers
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#587 - 2014-02-17 14:05:09 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Also, Marlona sky had a very interesting idea to curb power projection in EvE, something that is truly needed. Read it, as it is a good article.

Actually that's a horrible idea. Marlona is just mad that they lost the war.


There are currently no drawbacks to teleportation in EvE, and this is something that should exist. To be honest, I really don't care about the movement of capitals via teleportation, but I very much think bridging needs to have some limits similar to Marlona's suggestion.


Goons would be forced to actually strategically position and defend borders, so it's a bad idea.

It would give new alliances a fighting chance.

It would be AWFUL for goons - they will never support it.

The current status quo of defending and attacking anything from anywhere benefits them far too much for them to ever want that changed.



LOL

Yeah so what happens when the CFC goes offensive. We can dump the the N3's active numbers plus TEST, and pretty much every large FW and Pirate entity wherever we need to.

Who is going to slow that down?

No one will have to slow it down. Once they have crushed all the little guys they will emplode from within. Bordem will be their greatest enemy.

Sure they will try to harrass hi-sec or low even but the effect will be minimal and the effort to suceed will be to great for the bluesec horde.

Just like now how CFC have turned on BL they will turn on each other. People will continue to harass their renters adding fuel to the fire until CFC finally burn out.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#588 - 2014-02-17 14:09:11 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Just like now how CFC have turned on BL they will turn on each other.


Huh, I thought CFC paid them 17 gazillion trillion isk for a contract that subsequently expired.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#589 - 2014-02-17 14:13:42 UTC
Could someone please explain to me just how we have this incredible indisputable unbeatable influence over CCP's creative processes?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#590 - 2014-02-17 14:16:41 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Could someone please explain to me just how we have this incredible indisputable unbeatable influence over CCP's creative processes?


Well, it all started with your CIA-China-Google acquisition and snowballed from there. Roll

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Doris Dents
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#591 - 2014-02-17 14:17:40 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Could someone please explain to me just how we have this incredible indisputable unbeatable influence over CCP's creative processes?

Every time we use a mechanic too much CCP nerfs it so by constantly nerfing the **** out of us goons control CCP.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#592 - 2014-02-17 14:26:04 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Also there doesn't need to be a reversion to the old Sov system. It did suck as well but not as much as this new system which is allowing CFC to take over the entire map. While ping pong may have sucked, this sucks even more.




What allows the CFC to take over the entire map is that they are BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE.

They've earned it.

But you don't want to earn it, you don't want to earn anything. You just want CCP to hand it to you.

Quote:
We all pay the same amount of money, we all deserve to be able to PvP in our play time, regardless of time zone. That includes Sov PvP against Sov assets.


I called it.

You want on demand PvP, on your terms only, sticking out your lower lip if you don't get what you want all the time.

Go back to WoW, your entitlement mindset is appropriate there.

Oh, hey Sov assets, right? Does that include POCOs this time?



LMAO @ earned it. They crashed the nodes by adding more people until CCP stopped reimbursing for the losses. They finally figured out that the way to beat the wrecking ball was with a bigger wrecking ball.

The CFC was formed to kill BOB...kuddos to mittens and the goonies and their pets for doing what they set out to do.

They have become what they formed to destroy. The only difference is BOB never controlled all of bluesec.

BOB was not destroyed by earning it and the mechanics have changed to where we will not be seeing a repeat of history.

Leave Blue-Sec let them crummble under their own weight.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#593 - 2014-02-17 14:31:03 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
If we remove timers it will mean you will have to have a fleet on guard duty 24/7 and a large one at that. We can burn through any structure in a matter of minutes so IZ's idea would make it impossible for smaller alliances to hold anything in null. Hell it would be impossible for most of the big alliances to keep hold of anything.



Pretty much this. IZ can't stand to be wrong, so he keeps pushing the issue because he's mad that as a soloh playerz he can't be impactful all on his own.

Guess what, chuckles. Go get some friends. If that's possible with a posting record like yours.

And here we go with the I dont like what your saying so I will start with the childish attacks.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#594 - 2014-02-17 14:35:04 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
IZ has consistently demonstrated a poor understanding of topics such as game balance, game mechanics, and design intent. What he said wasn't childish or unwarranted.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#595 - 2014-02-17 14:55:32 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
So at the end of 30 pages it seems that everyone agrees that SovNull is fine for the big guys and the little guys. I mean seriously, read through this thread and all I see is bickering, whining, and general horseshit.

It's really no wonder CCP doesn't want to work on this. The players involved can not compromise, reason with each other, or post anything even remotely constructive without resorting to attacks and chest beating.

Don't get me wrong. It has been entertaining but literally nothing useful has been gained from any of the last 30 pages.

Let's see what you all can do with the next 30 pages.


It's unfortunate that this is the perception that a genuinely interested outsider gets from the clueless loudmouths and the exasperated trolling done in response on this broken forum. In reality there is a generally clear outline of where the problems lie and the type of changes that need to be made to enact real progress, though of course there is some disagreement on the exact details due to the enormity and complexity of the topic.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#596 - 2014-02-17 14:56:19 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
IZ has consistently demonstrated a poor understanding of topics such as game balance, game mechanics, and design intent. What he said wasn't childish or unwarranted.


He doesn't have a poor understanding of anything. He's not trolling. If he was that would actually be better.

He understands things perfectly fine, what he doesn't do well is 'accept' the reasons for those things. He lacks the ability to see a thing as good is if doesn't benefit him (many people are like that, but the most rational people understand that a thing can be bad for them and great for everyone else and vice versa). People like that always interested (given my rl line of work) me so I watched his posts in the F&I forum and it's plain amazing to see someone with such a narrow perspective.

Local gave warning to people he was trying to pew in null, so local needed to go away for that reason and that reason alone. Cloaks prevented him from finding someone in a solar system so same deal. Timers meant his small gang of alts couldn't kill a poco therefore all timers are from satan and must be banished. He likes battleships but battleships are not as good at solo work as cruisers are therefore the entire ship design paradigm needs to change (because he personally likes battleships). He didn't properly prepare for a solo null sec outtting (having to do like 70 jumps because he didn't properly prepare) therefore CCP should give him some way to refit in sov null (which lead to his hilarious claiming of credit for the mobile depot).

I could go on and on, the dude is like a walking psych experiment lol. Literally every opinion I've seen him express is flawed, and not from a lack of knowledge or intelligence, but simply from some insanely interesting (to me at least) inability to see past his one individual self interest.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#597 - 2014-02-17 14:58:03 UTC
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're right about that to be honest.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#598 - 2014-02-17 15:13:47 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
IZ has consistently demonstrated a poor understanding of topics such as game balance, game mechanics, and design intent. What he said wasn't childish or unwarranted.


It was unsportsmanlike, certainly. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Anthar Thebess
#599 - 2014-02-17 15:18:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
This map is wrong.
Remember that CFC and PL have NIP for their SOV space , including every thing north from PL/BOT holdings.
And there is no neutral states ( white ones).

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#600 - 2014-02-17 16:02:36 UTC
Back to the topic at hand, highsec definitely needs a nerf so there can be more competition over nullsec via economic incentives. Nullsec needs the bottom up approach to work for alliance level income to combat the depopulation and to start the "farms and fields approach." Sov needs less HP/Timers and more objectives. People refuse to engage in diplomacy/negotiation/bargaining/politics in the zone that requires them and is all about them.

Did I miss anything?

For emphasis highsec is in dire need of a nerf.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133