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Faction items seeded on Sisi

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Missile War
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#61 - 2011-11-18 18:38:58 UTC
also: FORGET ABOUT IT, ITS NOT HAPPENING



CCP Konflikt wrote:
Klandi wrote:
Yes - this AGAIN but it needs to be repeated

Most warfare these days is done with faction ammo, faction guns, faction mods and since it is a TEST server where TQ can be REPLICATED it seems farcical that the stuff we normally use is not on this server

CCP - we need to fit out our ships like we do on TQ - please seed faction mods, charges and ships

Thx K


CCP Konflikt wrote:
The dogma effects of modules can be tested no matter what value of the effect. So for the majority of testing a 5% module is the same as a 10% module. When it has happened in the past the only notable difference was an increase in ban requests.
Contracts are copied over at the start of a mirror, you can either rush to Jita on mirror day and buy them all or hope you kill someone in 6-cz49 with faction mods.
The final option is to go ratting or run dead space complexes.


Yes - this AGAIN but it needs to be repeated. P

This is a test server... for testing bugs, not ship fits.
xxxak
Perkone
Caldari State
#62 - 2011-11-18 18:41:02 UTC
CCP Konflikt wrote:
Klandi wrote:
Yes - this AGAIN but it needs to be repeated

Most warfare these days is done with faction ammo, faction guns, faction mods and since it is a TEST server where TQ can be REPLICATED it seems farcical that the stuff we normally use is not on this server

CCP - we need to fit out our ships like we do on TQ - please seed faction mods, charges and ships

Thx K


CCP Konflikt wrote:
The dogma effects of modules can be tested no matter what value of the effect. So for the majority of testing a 5% module is the same as a 10% module. When it has happened in the past the only notable difference was an increase in ban requests.
Contracts are copied over at the start of a mirror, you can either rush to Jita on mirror day and buy them all or hope you kill someone in 6-cz49 with faction mods.
The final option is to go ratting or run dead space complexes.


Yes - this AGAIN but it needs to be repeated. P

This is a test server... for testing bugs, not ship fits.


Sorry, but you are silly, and that's being polite. Please think before you post. It is absolutely for testing ships and giving feedback.

It's thoughtless comment's like yours that shows how disconnected some CCP Devs are from the players.

[u]The nerfs to supercaps will cause more super pilots to join the largest alliances who can properly "support" their deployment, further concentrating firepower/wealth in EVE. The end result will be fewer "fun" fights, and will hurt EVE in the long run.[/u]
Sigras
Conglomo
#63 - 2011-11-18 19:11:03 UTC
Missile War wrote:
Klandi wrote:
Sigras - I feel we are up against a couple of ppl that do not understand the basics of programming and testing said programs, so we can talk until we are blue and they STILL won't understand.

What I wanted to get across (and thanks for backing me up) was that if we are allowed on the test server to help with balance and issues (bug finding) then let us help out properly.

we're getting what you mean, but its as easy as this: if they seed faction items(tell me how btw, since contracts are way harder to seed than market probaly) alot of people will join sisi, and stop with TQ since sisi will be way more awesome than TQ. and with alot of people joining, real bug testers can't test mods anymore since they get killed before they can even do something by a 50 man blob from (insert random big alliance or character name) . and the people that come to sisi most likely won't bug report thus they don't get any more information.
and tbh, i think CCP is getting enough info from TQ about ships that are using faction(etc.) mods, and i'm quite sure CCP is smart enough to know ppl will faction fit their ships...

number one, if people choose to leave TQ to play on SiSi, TQ may be better off without them because theyre obviously doing Eve wrong . . .
Secondly your point about people doing the testing getting blown up I would 100% agree with, except for the fact that SiSi is only consensual PvP so those people would just get banned in a week.

The most compelling argument youve made is that contracts would be really hard to seed
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
#64 - 2011-11-18 19:43:02 UTC
I also want to remind you that Sisi is not TQ in both CPU power or RAM - two items that restrict the playability of this game. So ppl may (as they currently do btw) go on to Sisi to try out fits against ppl because you never know when the balance will get in the way. But anything sustained would be unplayable.

In trying out these fits, they may come across a bug because a faction item X with faction item y doesnot = the correct result. It is alot easier to do the bug report (AND REPLICATE IT FOR VERIFICATION) on Sisi than TQ.

And the seeding issue - don't seed contracts to distribute the stuff - put them on the market in a single "container" . As they are all 100isk - all you do is select and "buy"

Now come on CCP - you want help finding the bugs and helping with balance - give us the tools!!!

I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
#65 - 2011-11-18 19:46:15 UTC
And Missile - please post with your CCP authorised toon before sprouting edicts.
Oh - wait - don't you work for CCP?

I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking
Missile War
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#66 - 2011-11-18 19:56:03 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Missile War wrote:
Klandi wrote:
Sigras - I feel we are up against a couple of ppl that do not understand the basics of programming and testing said programs, so we can talk until we are blue and they STILL won't understand.

What I wanted to get across (and thanks for backing me up) was that if we are allowed on the test server to help with balance and issues (bug finding) then let us help out properly.

we're getting what you mean, but its as easy as this: if they seed faction items(tell me how btw, since contracts are way harder to seed than market probaly) alot of people will join sisi, and stop with TQ since sisi will be way more awesome than TQ. and with alot of people joining, real bug testers can't test mods anymore since they get killed before they can even do something by a 50 man blob from (insert random big alliance or character name) . and the people that come to sisi most likely won't bug report thus they don't get any more information.
and tbh, i think CCP is getting enough info from TQ about ships that are using faction(etc.) mods, and i'm quite sure CCP is smart enough to know ppl will faction fit their ships...

number one, if people choose to leave TQ to play on SiSi, TQ may be better off without them because theyre obviously doing Eve wrong . . .
Secondly your point about people doing the testing getting blown up I would 100% agree with, except for the fact that SiSi is only consensual PvP so those people would just get banned in a week.

The most compelling argument youve made is that contracts would be really hard to seed



lolz...only consensual PVP? please read the rules once again to see PVP in 6-c can be done freely as long as it isn't on station/gates...


also: im not a CCP toon or whatsoever, im just sick of every idiot wanting faction mods for their own pleasure and probaly won't use it for testing bugs and if they find any, they won't bug report it.(maybe your 1 of the "special" kind that does bug report even tho it will make you stop playing with your epic fit ship for a bit)
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#67 - 2011-11-18 20:04:04 UTC
Missile War wrote:
if they seed faction items(tell me how btw, since contracts are way harder to seed than market probaly)

Happily, faction ammo is available in the market, with no need for contracts.

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644
Sigras
Conglomo
#68 - 2011-11-18 21:25:05 UTC
Missile War wrote:
Sigras wrote:
Missile War wrote:
Klandi wrote:
Sigras - I feel we are up against a couple of ppl that do not understand the basics of programming and testing said programs, so we can talk until we are blue and they STILL won't understand.

What I wanted to get across (and thanks for backing me up) was that if we are allowed on the test server to help with balance and issues (bug finding) then let us help out properly.

we're getting what you mean, but its as easy as this: if they seed faction items(tell me how btw, since contracts are way harder to seed than market probaly) alot of people will join sisi, and stop with TQ since sisi will be way more awesome than TQ. and with alot of people joining, real bug testers can't test mods anymore since they get killed before they can even do something by a 50 man blob from (insert random big alliance or character name) . and the people that come to sisi most likely won't bug report thus they don't get any more information.
and tbh, i think CCP is getting enough info from TQ about ships that are using faction(etc.) mods, and i'm quite sure CCP is smart enough to know ppl will faction fit their ships...

number one, if people choose to leave TQ to play on SiSi, TQ may be better off without them because theyre obviously doing Eve wrong . . .
Secondly your point about people doing the testing getting blown up I would 100% agree with, except for the fact that SiSi is only consensual PvP so those people would just get banned in a week.

The most compelling argument youve made is that contracts would be really hard to seed



lolz...only consensual PVP? please read the rules once again to see PVP in 6-c can be done freely as long as it isn't on station/gates...


also: im not a CCP toon or whatsoever, im just sick of every idiot wanting faction mods for their own pleasure and probaly won't use it for testing bugs and if they find any, they won't bug report it.(maybe your 1 of the "special" kind that does bug report even tho it will make you stop playing with your epic fit ship for a bit)

again, its not about bugs, its about balance which cannot be done without faction mods

Also your argument was that bug testers cannot do their job correctly because people would just blow them up . . . this would hold water if 6-c was the only system in eve, thankfully its not, so bug testers can go elsewhere and hunt bugs.

the key is that balance testers need the tools to balance things properly, and I know that this is what the test server is for as there are currently 5 forum threads started by CCP asking for balance feedback.
Comodore John
4S Corporation
The Initiative.
#69 - 2011-11-18 21:44:21 UTC
Never will CCP seed every faction module. Perfect example of why is the last miror when all pirate ships got seeded. WHen those ships got seeded there was a mass spam of them because people don't want to risk them on TQ. Faction modules are the only currency other than supers that can be used, it should mean something when you lose them, not "Oh I can just go get another one for 100 ISK".

Players have proven time and time again that when shiny things get seeded, not much else gets used (so how are those other ships getting tested?) If you want faction stuff, either rush to market hubs and start buying stuff as soon as the server mirrors, have it on TQ and save it, kill faction fit ships, or, my personal favorite, GET OVER IT AND QUIT YOUR MOANING AND BITCHING
Sigras
Conglomo
#70 - 2011-11-18 23:14:07 UTC
if thats how they feel about it then CCP should stop asking for balance feedback especially on capitals and frigates where faction/deadspace gear is standard for all but the most noobish of players
Missile War
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#71 - 2011-11-18 23:31:57 UTC
sigras, they ask for feedback on ships since they know that feedback is good enough. they don't need to seed faction mods to get good feedback...

you should try looking at it from a different view than just your own view that's possibly only looking into an instant-grattification server...i bet you want all skills lvl 5 also?
Roger Soros
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#72 - 2011-11-19 14:17:06 UTC
Lets put it simply if ccp seed supers/officers/faction stuff it will attire on sisi alot of stupid idiots that want to try and look big with that stuff, this is will only lead to 3 effects
1) an increase of population of sisi, the server start to be laggy and CCp will be asked to a more powerfull server = more work and more resources needed
2) an increase on banning request and as the population increase more ccp employers need to be assigned to sisi = more work and more resources needed
3) unattendance of the data gathered, because everyone will fly a Draclira's Erebus somenthing that is a rare if not never seen on tq= they need to use more employers to generate accurate date and test stuff.

You can already see people on sisi forming fleets using nearly only dreads and carriers because they cost 100 isk and make their ego big so testing stuff like the new bc a total pain.
Spaaaace Sphere
Nex quod Principatus
#73 - 2011-11-19 17:38:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Spaaaace Sphere
CCP Konflikt wrote:

This is a test server... for testing bugs, not ship fits.


If you look up top in the test server feedback forum, you may notice a thread named "Balancing Feedback: Tier3 Battlecruisers".

I want you to think about that for a moment, please. Really, sit there and give it a bit of thought. These are new ships, and your fellow developers would like feedback on their balance. Meanwhile, you are here saying that the server is not for what the other devs are asking us to do on the server.

Do you have a problem with what your coworkers are requesting or have you just made a mistake in speaking?

There isn't any practical reason not to at least seed faction ammo and let people test the changes being made to weapons systems and the new ships being implemented, so that they can actually provide the feedback that CCP is actively soliciting from them.

The last thing you want to be doing is what you just did, which is to make it look like one hand doesn't know what the other one is doing. It gets in the way of getting stuff done, and it portrays an image of incompetence which we all know isn't actually true of you guys but which is still kind of bad for community relations.
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
#74 - 2011-11-19 18:01:35 UTC
Roger, Please read response 64, which means that most of your "considerations" will not happen.
If I got on to a game server that lagged to buggery - I would turn it off and do something else

I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking
Mikal Morataya
#75 - 2011-11-19 18:48:30 UTC
+1 for faction ammo, the rest isn't really necessary, but even cheap PvP'ers use faction ammo, so that should be on for balancing purposes such as the new Tier3 BCs
Archare
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2011-11-20 01:59:57 UTC
It's a test server. You are not paying for the usage of the test server. You *pay to play on TQ. Sisi is a privilege that CCP lets players use to assist them in finding or recreating bugs. It's not for testing fits. Yes you can use it as a tool to do so, but I can also use a plastic knife to hijack an airplane. If you really want faction ammo go run a mission or high sec incursion a few times and never spend the lp. Then you can buy your damn ammo on sisi whenever it mirrors. There's plenty of workarounds to procure ammo on the test server. As far as the pirate faction ships go, they should remove them from the seeding script instead of adding the missing ones. Twisted

*The term pay meaning to subscribe to game time on eve online whether through credit card subscriptions or plexing with isk earned in game.
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
#77 - 2011-11-20 08:46:36 UTC
Quote:
The dogma effects of modules can be tested no matter what value of the effect.

Awesome, so you wouldn't mind seeding faction ammo then right?
Quote:
This is a test server... for testing bugs, not ship fits.

Except that in reality, it's not just for testing bugs. If it was there really wouldn't be any desire to add in the combat area markers. Or give people a 2m sp bonus for showing up to mass tests. That's not a bad thing however. In a srs game like eve having a place people can go to easily test game mechanics that they might not want to test directly on tranq (and this includes fits) it's a good feature to support, in trade for being guinni pigs for the devs.

Testing fits is actually quite important especially when your introducing new ships. You want to see them in somewhat plausible engagements to get a feel for how they might work out on tranq. It's a win win situation.

Faction ammo is universally used in pvp on tranq, seriously, almost nobody uses standard ammo, like ever. Finding it on sisi isn't hard, but why add the annoyance? Just seed it. I do agree that there is no reason to waste effort on trying to seed contract only items.
Sigras
Conglomo
#78 - 2011-11-21 20:14:44 UTC
Missile War wrote:
sigras, they ask for feedback on ships since they know that feedback is good enough. they don't need to seed faction mods to get good feedback...


No, but they do need to seed faction mods to get accurate feedback, because, like i said, the dramiel is perfectly well balanced against the daredevil now, but thats only because i cant fit my faction gyrostab and I dont have the CPU for a regular one so I had to go with a TE, and I cant use my deadspace MWD . . . do you not see the problem here?

Missile War wrote:
you should try looking at it from a different view than just your own view that's possibly only looking into an instant-grattification server...i bet you want all skills lvl 5 also?

clearly you have never tried to balance a game youve created . . . you need to look at ALL of the variables to see what kind of totally overpowered combinations you can make.

more options = more power
Cloora
APEX Unlimited
APEX Conglomerate
#79 - 2011-11-21 23:20:37 UTC
CCP Konflikt wrote:
Klandi wrote:
Yes - this AGAIN but it needs to be repeated

Most warfare these days is done with faction ammo, faction guns, faction mods and since it is a TEST server where TQ can be REPLICATED it seems farcical that the stuff we normally use is not on this server

CCP - we need to fit out our ships like we do on TQ - please seed faction mods, charges and ships

Thx K


CCP Konflikt wrote:
The dogma effects of modules can be tested no matter what value of the effect. So for the majority of testing a 5% module is the same as a 10% module. When it has happened in the past the only notable difference was an increase in ban requests.
Contracts are copied over at the start of a mirror, you can either rush to Jita on mirror day and buy them all or hope you kill someone in 6-cz49 with faction mods.
The final option is to go ratting or run dead space complexes.


Yes - this AGAIN but it needs to be repeated. P

This is a test server... for testing bugs, not ship fits.



Wow, congratulations, you are the first CCP employee I have called an idiot now.

IDIOT.

You stupid are you that you can't figure out that faction ships need to be tested for balance right along with everything else without having to go to Jita and snag all the contracts which someone will already do.

You should be replaced with someone of actual logic and intelligence. You are a making CCP look bad.

LOL @ new hybrd changes and no Faction ammo or Vindicators to test it with. Wow!

http://www.altaholics.blogspot.com
Conjugate Momenta
Uwu punish me sexy zorya daddy
#80 - 2011-11-22 02:44:02 UTC
Not to mention, its more than possible that some faction mods are not acting as stated. Also you need faction probes and probe launchers for testing probing, and faction tanks for testing things like new mission and deadspace complexes.

PvP needs faction mods for testing because thats what some people use. Obviously there is no need for utus and guardian-vexors to be seeded, they arent actually used, but mods and ships that people use should be available.