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Instead of just buffing T2 ammo I would say that blasters really need a bit more range, for all ammo types. I am personally not happy to buff T2 ammo more, the introduction of high damage ammo at long range was what initially broke balancing between weapon types.

the range mod is applyed to null not void

Well with the null change I make the ranges for the medium and large blasters to be as follows (appropriate skills at lv5 for range modifiers) without and with a single TE (to the nearest whole km);

Heavy electron 9 12
Heavy ion 12 15
Heavy neutron 15 19

Electron cannon 19 23
Ion cannon 25 30
Neutron cannon 30 37

So close to removing the biggest bug bear - namely being kited at scram range without any reasonable chance to do much to escape. It'd be a shame if TE's became the new mwd and were a compulsory fit for every ship - pretty soon we might as well have it all hardwired into the ship if that becomes a trend :) .I have no issues at all with large blasters set at this level personally, but think the mediums could do with an extra 1.5km as their base, just to get everything into the scram range limit for being able to respond in some way. I guess the guns themselves would require that tweak, rather than the ammo. Alternatively the 50% boost would work, but then that might be too much for the large guns.

I think you're being a bit harsh. I've been passionate about getting hybrids buffed for years, and only became vocal about it for the past two months (basically as soon as I heard it was being addressed on Sisi). I mean, think about that, two months time and they HAVE implemented something. My only concern was that they would leave it as is, despite numerous forum posts stating the work was incomplete. Admittedly, I was also about to throw in the towel, thinking hybrids got a half-assed makeover which didn't change a thing. Hearing about Null changes on SiSi, though, it's changed my attitude a lot.

That being said, I am totally with you: more needs to be done. If you ask me, Gallente ships still need survivability. If the Null changes go live, this puts Gallente ships somewhat on par with Amarr. I still think Amarr get the edge in better effective range in scorch, instant ammo swap, and absolutely staggering armor tanks. Caldari, while in some cases they seemingly need love, will have ECM, the best-bang-for-your-buck Drake, the Tengu, and I'd bet any amount of money the Naga becomes popular in the next six months. Minmatar will remain undisputed kings of small scale pvp because other races, pound for pound, have yet to receive tools matching or beating the trio of capless guns, fastest speed, and alpha.

To summarize: while this thread is about buffing hybrids, I think it is equally important to recognize the pitiful rarity of Gallente ships in pvp, which also happens to mirror a likewise lacking presense of hybrids in pvp. In many respects, they are one and the same.

To reiterate this point for anyone at CCP who might be reading: You must also increase the defensive abilities of the hybrid delivery platform, a.k.a. ships with hybrid bonuses, in SOME way, if you are serious about making hybrids a popular and viable choice in pvp.

Anyhow, Gallente still need survivability just as much as hybrids need something to make their "on-paper" stats effective. While new Null buffs open a small window to fend off skirmishers, it still does nothing preventing Minmatar ships from overwhelmingly dictating the course of small engagements. In other words, the Null buffs only result in a skirmisher POSSIBLY having to consider retreating when fighting a blaster boat. Hybrid ships need to bring something to the table EVERYTIME they are picked, or no one is going to want to use them. Ideally this would be defensive in nature as Gallente is the only race which really has no passive defensive capability:

Minmatar: nano/speed, capless guns
Amarr: best ehp in the game, fleet-friendly lasers
Caldari: best shields in the game, capless missiles (this is not exactly great, but it does propel the Drake to the most popular ship in the game, and the Tengu to the most popular ship in its class)
Gallente: NOTHING

CCP, you still need to fill the above Gallente gap, or the Null buffs are in vain. :(
Yea, I'm glad I wasn't the only one who noticed disparities between hybrid turrets as ship size increased. The weakest of the weak hybrids are found on the medium-sized ships, no doubt. And yes, TE's are a little too powerful/fotm. Strange that TEs actually provide better bonuses than the TC, which has more fitting requirements, requires a script, and requires activation.... Personally, I equate them to pre-nerf multispectrals, but whatever.

Well considering the changes haven't even been mentioned by a certain person of above average....

height.


Still I welcome more work on my preferred method of destruction. I see the null buff as a normalization of the general range increase relative to scorch and barrage. I think like the question of which came first, the chicken or the egg, hybrids still feel incomplete because only half of the problem has been worked on. Overall the changes have been good but more is desired because the ships that mount them. Overall I hope more changes/tweaking/rebalancing for hybrids and the platforms that carry them come soon!

I agree that for weapons with the highest fitting requirements, while wasting cap per shot, and unable to select damage types, the fact that autocannons have so many advantages is plain wrong. The solution? Increase autocannon fitting requirements and lower hybrids. You barely even have to touch the damage f you allow for more fitting options.

i actually would love to see some more buffs to rails to actually make them a competitve weapon system ... i mean CMON eletromagnetic railguns firing ANTIMATTER rounds is the worst long range weapon system? and some crap archaic artillery that i guess still uses gunpowder in space(lol) because it doesnt use cap is easily outperforming a much more modern and space-type weapon ... you cant even roleplay that lol.

unless blasters are tottaly reworked they will always remain a small gang niche .. and i mean SMALL GANG .. they will fail terribly even on medium sized fleet engagements.

which leaves gallente only hope of getting back in the fleet fights with railguns ... which are being ignored now apparently they are just fine. even if you copied autocannons and arties properties and gave it to blasters and rails they would still be slower use cap and not be able to select ammo type .... total crap.

nothing will change from what ive seen ... which makes gallente still the worst overall PVP and PVE race by a long shot even after these buffs which were very minor compared to the projectile buff which put minmatar FAR above any other races.

FAIL -1 ccp

Despite our different levels of passion on the matter, you thoughts are sound. I do hope they get this right, not to SHIFT the balance of power, but to:

-give veteran players more options to exercise ALL of their skills, in a more diverse manner
-give newer players the true avenue to evolve themselves by not allowing them to regret their skill and race choices
-bring balance to the economy, which currently [and naturally] favors effective ship and weapon systems over the crap ones

It is inexcusable for EVE, a game fundamentally-based on player versus player, to allow a race's line of ships and weapons to be immeasurably inferior when compared to the others.

My only disagreement would be to nerf projectiles. I think it would be better to get everything up to their effectiveness rather than to take a step backwards. There was a time when projectiles weren't so hot, and for [mostly] the same reasons hybrids are not so hot today.

I'll do my best to be hopeful now that i see Null is getting reworked, but again, more is needed!

How to discredit yourself after posting with your main?




Blasters got some love with that crappy long range ammo change
-now you can at least hit crap at over 30km at BS size with a single TE and this is really important, they have to choose to either seriously engage or both have now the ability to gtfo since one can't use any more his distance advantage to keep you disrupted knowing you couldn't hit and elephant at that distance (25/30km)

The tracking/falloff/cap penalties should be at same level with hail/multi has barrage/scorch or whatever
Rails ammo still in need of a very much big dps boost at least for long range ammo, I'm still preferring to pick the Tornado over Rails Talos or Naga everyday, and there's a reason for that: Tornado puts 2 shots on your bones you feel it deep. If it's some Naga or Talos you just know they're there but can wait before you warp out.

Rails themselves are in need of changes at med and large size. 625mm for BS and 375mm for meds would be quite nice because it's cool the 12% less here and the 30% less there but the fact is that they're still crap.
I'll still pick the 720mm T2 hotwizer Cane over 250mm RG Diemost, one is JUST a battlecruiser, the other is JUST THE HAC of gallente lineup.

Why compare both? - well zealot is much better than any amarr BC withc is good, a specialised ship for dps should be the best at it, either close or long range, zealot is the good example.

720 Vaga is crap but 720 Munin is great
Cerberus is little special, crappy tank but for sure a very good dmg dealer no matter the distance.

Problem with gallente HAC is that you either use Blaster Diesmost or Drones Ishtar because rails are plain crap and on Diemost you can see it how bad they are that you could give those 50% more dps they'd still be subpar

ohh please show us your vast experience with railguns Mr. Wizard .... i looked at your killboard and you have not got a kill with a railgun in over 16 MONTHS and that was with a nighthawk? wtf probably an error i doubt you have any experience with rails.... and in that time guess what you have been using 99% of the time? projectiles and heavy missiles and a few token blasters kills .... lol

STFU and GTFO you dont know anything about railguns except you never have seen them in pvp in about 2 years and its obvious that you just want to retain your FOTM status by spewing propaganda like a little punk. probably becuase you know without flying your fotm ships you arent really that good.

if you look at my killboard you will see that i actually use rails of all sizes and in actual recent history all t2 guns and my railgun skills are 100% maxed .... i have an 9.00 standing with all the diffrent faction navies all in a sentry/rail domi and have more experience using rails in pvp and pve then you ever will. i have tried several times to use rails in pvp but their alpha is way to weak and dps doesnt overcome arties until like an hour of shooting at something by the time the rails dps starts working the fight is already over and doesnt mean jack.. and the only time they do well is at pos bashes thats it.

i always use a sentry boat+rails usually to take down a pos cause that is the only situation they are good at. these are rail setups but sentries like to get on the KM much more.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11931167

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=10672750

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9400676

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9173600

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9797238

i use my rails now only during stuff like this and i am sure 90% of railguns KM's are at pos bashes an thats it.

i never claim to be some master of pvp .. far from it ..i quite often play after i have had a drink or 2 and mess up alot sometimes. i only play here and there when i got the time and just an average joe. but i know intimatly how railguns work far better then you ever will and as good as anyone can and actually use them in combat in the small niche they have(otherwise my maxxed skills on them are wasted). so please take your propaganda and stick it where the sun dont shine and thx.

opps last pos KM was a sentry gila in a c1 i think or something like that lolz

and also if rails are fine why havent you used them in 16 months if you ever have? ........... thats what i thought