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Loot Spew 4 Months Later

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Jayne Tamm
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#81 - 2013-11-21 14:15:36 UTC
What CCP need to do is the following;


When you 'Complete' the hacking mini game....you should be able to access the container and loot it.

BUT

If you 'Fail' the hacking mini game...then the container should spew the loot. Maybe decrease the time the loot stays in space so that you can only grab 2 or 3 cans if you're quick.


This would make a lot more sense in my eyes.
Meghel
SilfMeg Mining and Transportation Co
#82 - 2013-11-21 15:50:05 UTC
Jayne Tamm wrote:
What CCP need to do is the following;


When you 'Complete' the hacking mini game....you should be able to access the container and loot it.

BUT

If you 'Fail' the hacking mini game...then the container should spew the loot. Maybe decrease the time the loot stays in space so that you can only grab 2 or 3 cans if you're quick.


This would make a lot more sense in my eyes.

I must say, that would make a LOT more sense...
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#83 - 2013-11-21 16:34:47 UTC
Why is loot spew still in the game?

Not today spaghetti.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#84 - 2013-11-21 18:37:16 UTC
The loot spray could be removed from hackable gas sites.

It's annoying having to bring both data analyzer and cargo scanner, when you still have to fit tank and weapons. And it's even more annoying having to grab the loot, when the white could background makes it almost impossible to read the text telling you which type the can is.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#85 - 2013-11-21 19:52:19 UTC
Loot thing was introduced to EvE to encourage players to explore in group. I don't think the goal was accomplised (not for most of exploring player base). It is reflex based and some luck. There are so many post since Odyssey complaing about how bad this new mechanism is but only few what to do with whole starting idea (group exploration). I don't think it will magicaly disappear in near future but i have some ideas how to improve it:

Add some new subsystems to hacking such as:

- airlock subsystem (after hack loot will not be sprayed or sprayed with slower speed)

- grid map subsystem (after hacking it will show whole grid with unclicked subsytems covered but shown as potentialy defense nodes or user soft, player will have more influance to plan whole hack)

- can register subsystem (after hack will show can content so players will have an option to refit hull with some other equipment than cargo scanner)

all above was mainly for solo, but:

in hack attempt done in group one person is hacking and others are waiting for candies to catch. Why not let second and more person help breaking the can airlock. They just start the hack from other corner of the grid (i don't know if this kind of interaction can be implemented in code).

I really like the hacking concept. This is where solo and group exploration should focus. It has great potential not only in exploration but needs to be polished.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
AnzacPaul
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#86 - 2013-11-22 11:14:15 UTC
Loot spew is awful and should be removed, but it won't be.
Ristlin Wakefield
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#87 - 2013-11-22 18:56:27 UTC
Jayne Tamm wrote:
What CCP need to do is the following;


When you 'Complete' the hacking mini game....you should be able to access the container and loot it.

BUT

If you 'Fail' the hacking mini game...then the container should spew the loot. Maybe decrease the time the loot stays in space so that you can only grab 2 or 3 cans if you're quick.


This would make a lot more sense in my eyes.


You are a damned Genius! That would make more sense, they could even cut the loot-spew time so you have less time to click. That would balance out the fact that you "failed" while still giving the dude who programmed the loot spew something to be proud about.

I have a lover, her name is EVE. I see her every night and all she asks in return is that I have a pilot's license.
Lady Ariona
Perkone
Caldari State
#88 - 2013-11-22 19:44:32 UTC
On the Hacking: The hacking is a good concept. It helps take something that was equivalent to salvaging and differentiates it. That being said, it is a little disconcertingly random at times, which can be problematic. Furthermore, there is no differentiation between Relic Analyzer and Data Analyzer, other than the type of cans that you can hack. They should work on something to make these two distinct, rather than having them basically be the same function split to two skills.

On the Loot Spew: As said multiple times, only 1-2 types of cans are useful to grab, it's tedious, it's not particularly difficult, nor is it particularly fun. It penalizes players who haven't done hacking enough to know what is worth grabbing, and is generally a PITA.

Adhocrat Former Morsus Mihi pilot / E-UNI Graduate

Researcher into Sleeper and Talocan Technology and History
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#89 - 2013-11-22 23:04:15 UTC
Quote:
On the Loot Spew: As said multiple times, only 1-2 types of cans are useful to grab, it's tedious, it's not particularly difficult, nor is it particularly fun.


If you spread the loot beetwen other types of can it will become more difficult and not fun at all (especially for solo explorers). Whole concept of loot exploding in your face, in game not based on reflex and agility, is really ill. Worst part of it, as i read feedback before odyssey, explorers were indicate it as bad design. Devs are really touchy when it comes to criticize their splendid ideas. Can't blame them really but five wheel car, no matter how good it looks, is a bad design.

Quote:
Furthermore, there is no differentiation between Relic Analyzer and Data Analyzer, other than the type of cans that you can hack. They should work on something to make these two distinct, rather than having them basically be the same function split to two skills.


It had sense when there was cycle on analyzer. Archeo wreck was analyzed for few cycles and show what loot is worth to grab. Now its just second hacking device with different sound. It should be just one device for all. It still has cycle time on skill so it was not really thought over.

I hope they didn't switch loot fireworks with roullete exploding mechanism from ghost sites. I don't buy the concept of this new chimera sites (they're not exploration but they need exploration devices).

This game focus strongly on PvP so other aspects of it are underestimated by Devs. EvE hits 10 and they still balancing hulls and weapons.

Hacking must be more complex. Not just click, click, click, won.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#90 - 2013-11-25 01:16:51 UTC
*shrug*... Does it really matter what we think? They asked what we thought when they were rolling it out on the Test Server. We were rather up-front that it was not a very engaging mechanic and that we did not particularly enjoy it. They ignored us, rubber stamped it as "tested", and just pushed it thru. So... yeah. They'll get around to it when they feel like it. You could probably use PI as a good measuring stick.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#91 - 2013-11-26 23:25:18 UTC
Actually is only a time sink, not more engaging than the old rats.

To be decent should be more complicated and in line with EVE standards. Less random, more modules and skills involved, different scripts and virus to load in the Analyzer, add different characteristics fo Relic and Data, not only the loot; and so on...
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#92 - 2013-11-26 23:44:24 UTC
Have we heard nothing from CCP on their stance on loot spew? They seem quick enough to respond to threads where people are praising them (like for mobile depot, ghost sites etc) but nowhere to be seen on this issue that the majority of the community agrees needs to go.
Miriya Zakalwe
World Wide Welp
#93 - 2013-11-27 02:30:56 UTC
As a new player, my perspective here is maybe not super valuable, but for me, the minigame is fine but the loot spew annoying enough that I decided to completely ignore exploration as a career for the moment.

Obviously, YMMV.
Klatus Doshu
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#94 - 2013-11-27 08:40:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Klatus Doshu
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
:

Add some new subsystems to hacking such as:

- airlock subsystem (after hack loot will not be sprayed or sprayed with slower speed)

- grid map subsystem (after hacking it will show whole grid with unclicked subsytems covered but shown as potentialy defense nodes or user soft, player will have more influance to plan whole hack)

- can register subsystem (after hack will show can content so players will have an option to refit hull with some other equipment than cargo scanner)

all above was mainly for solo, but:

in hack attempt done in group one person is hacking and others are waiting for candies to catch. Why not let second and more person help breaking the can airlock. They just start the hack from other corner of the grid (i don't know if this kind of interaction can be implemented in code).

I really like the hacking concept. This is where solo and group exploration should focus. It has great potential not only in exploration but needs to be polished.


I like that!

But what about using the analyzer to see what it is in the can (without minigame) --> you need more skill to analyze difficult cans
And use the codebreaker for relic and data site cans (with minigame but without spew)
By this you won't need a cargo scanner anymore (one more mid) and it would be more difficult to do cherry picking
Curios about your thoughts on that idea
Amber Kurvora
#95 - 2013-11-27 09:49:37 UTC
The can spew can seem a slap in the face when you've scanned it down, hacked it and then promptly miss out on the shiny. Relics in Low and high need a serious buff to bring them in line with data sites. It's hardly worth checking them out except for the temptation of faction loot. Going back to the can spew when it comes to relics, it'd be nice to have the t2 parts be consistently in the parts cans and not the materials whenever the site decides it.

A better way to have implemented the game, would be to make it so the hacking game dictates what is dropped in a single can. You hack it first time and you get all the shiny. Fail first time and it randomizes what is dropped. Fail a second time and you lose it all.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#96 - 2013-11-27 11:50:53 UTC
Amber Kurvora wrote:
The can spew can seem a slap in the face when you've scanned it down, hacked it and then promptly miss out on the shiny. Relics in Low and high need a serious buff to bring them in line with data sites. It's hardly worth checking them out except for the temptation of faction loot. Going back to the can spew when it comes to relics, it'd be nice to have the t2 parts be consistently in the parts cans and not the materials whenever the site decides it.

A better way to have implemented the game, would be to make it so the hacking game dictates what is dropped in a single can. You hack it first time and you get all the shiny. Fail first time and it randomizes what is dropped. Fail a second time and you lose it all.


You learn which type of can has which type of thing, and you prioritise the cans you yank back based on the cargo scan.

As I've said before, I do not lose valuables to loot spew. If a tower bpc spawns in a data, I can assure you I will loot the tower bpc.
I would not care if I missed out on a disc in a parts can, because I was yanking back all the data cans to make sure I got the bpc.

You get plenty of time to decide your triage strategy for when the cans appear.

The point to loot spew is that you -must- pay attention to it, so you need to do your d-scan / check local whatever immediately before it - its a discipline check. oh wait you play in highsec where the nature of the mini games and its vulnerabilities do not matter. oh yeah people playing half the game wonder why it is like it is.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#97 - 2013-11-27 19:11:33 UTC
Quote:
But what about using the analyzer to see what it is in the can (without minigame) --> you need more skill to analyze difficult cans
And use the codebreaker for relic and data site cans (with minigame but without spew)
By this you won't need a cargo scanner anymore (one more mid) and it would be more difficult to do cherry picking


Correct me if i'm wrong, you propose:
1 - analyzer should "roll" content of a can. The better the skills player have the better loot will be "rolled" (this will be a step back to pre odyssey devices)
2 - hacking a can with codebreaker. No loot fireworks just loot the can.

What if i don't want to know what is inside a can? just go straight to point 2, or is it just must do mechanism?

I like the idea of spliting devices activity to analizing loot and codebreaking.

What kind of penalize mechanism you provide for sites? Can exploding? Any ideas for multiplayer exploration?

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2013-11-27 19:40:21 UTC
Miriya Zakalwe wrote:
As a new player, my perspective here is maybe not super valuable, but for me, the minigame is fine but the loot spew annoying enough that I decided to completely ignore exploration as a career for the moment.

Obviously, YMMV.



Go into low/null and do the hacking mini game that takes up your entire screen making responding to threats much more difficult for what appears to be no reason other than to add "danger" to an already dangerous adventure. No reason not to be able to resize that and the fittings windows.

Everyone including the person/persons that came up with lewt spew knows by now it sucks warm donkey balls. We also know that since it is someones baby with power at CCP, it is not going anywhere.

Exploration was not great before but it is terribad now.
Klatus Doshu
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#99 - 2013-11-27 20:08:28 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Quote:
But what about using the analyzer to see what it is in the can (without minigame) --> you need more skill to analyze difficult cans
And use the codebreaker for relic and data site cans (with minigame but without spew)
By this you won't need a cargo scanner anymore (one more mid) and it would be more difficult to do cherry picking


Correct me if i'm wrong, you propose:
1 - analyzer should "roll" content of a can. The better the skills player have the better loot will be "rolled" (this will be a step back to pre odyssey devices)
2 - hacking a can with codebreaker. No loot fireworks just loot the can.

What if i don't want to know what is inside a can? just go straight to point 2, or is it just must do mechanism?

I like the idea of spliting devices activity to analizing loot and codebreaking.

What kind of penalize mechanism you provide for sites? Can exploding? Any ideas for multiplayer exploration?



Yes....right now players use the cargo scanner and open only can which are worth to open it.... with my idea you need (have to invest ) at least some skill to be efficient
and yes if you don´t want to know what it is inside ...skip it...but with my idea you will need only two mid slots (analyzer+codebreaker) instead of three (cargo scanner+analyzer+codebreaker) or if you are not interested in the can content only one (code breaker) instead of two (code breaker + analyzer)

I would leave the kind of penalization as it is right now (can explode if you fail to hack it ) i just want to improve the amount of modules you need

And regardining the can spew I find the idea, which I quoted; quite fine
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#100 - 2013-11-27 21:31:28 UTC
Quote:
...and yes if you don´t want to know what it is inside ...skip it...


Cargo container scanner is linked with loot eruption, without it there is no reason to bring it.

data sites = parts
relic sites = parts and materials
data container for both if needed

Maybe lets try quite the oposite: do not reamove loot spew. But. Containers will not vanish in space, and loot will better spread among the types of them. Its hardcore but it suits the very concept of group exploring.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville