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High Sec Income vs Null Sec Income - the reality

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#981 - 2013-12-20 03:19:13 UTC
Falin Whalen wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Wow, highsec seems like great fun, no wonder test went back to highsec

did they?

Highsec isn't "fun", it is a grind fest. A grindfest, in almost complete safety, if your mission ship isn't blinged out with officer and faction gear.

Well, grinding is what it's at. Grind standings, grind LP, grind isk, grind structures, grind sov

Grind participation links

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#982 - 2013-12-20 03:36:22 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Gonna lower my effort ITT because y'all don't post well enough to deserve it.

Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Every unbiased non propaganda analysis

[CITATION NEEDED]

Quote:
And by continually trying to pretend high sec income is being buffed while null is being nerfed continually, you are loosing any support you might have

Alas poor soul, for I can cite examples. Highsec risk:reward has shifted in the following ways:

- CONCORD
- CONCORD buffs
- More CONCORD buffs
- Removal of insurance on CONCORD ganks
- L4's in highsec
- Criminal flagging changes
- Fleet loot changes
- Remote rep aggression changes / warnings
- EHP buffs to barges
- Incursions
- Loot theft flagging
- Suspect flagging in general

er... like half as many again but I think I give the picture. If you want to kill someone in highsec, it has gotten steadily harder and harder to achieve, and is happening less and less. That lowers the risk, whilst the rewards have done up in the same time, by a factor of nearly 2x for the average highseccer.


also
pirate ships from highsec lp
mindlinks from highsec lp
upcoming pirate battleship on highsec lp.

all of which reduce scarcity of equivalent drops in null, (gila losing market battle to both ishtar and sisters cruiser) and increase scarcity of LP both specifically sisters LP and by moving people off navy LP to farm sisters LP, thus reducing navy LP on the market.

SOE ships can be granted, though mindlinks I'd question. They don't seem to be too much higher than before they were changed to LP (comparing faction to standard links) and had the associated sinks with LP added. If anything, from an earning standpoint it seems like an ever so slight nerf.

Also when were lvl 4's not in highsec? Were they added there later than elsewhere?
Chopper Rollins
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#983 - 2013-12-20 03:36:33 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
I'm still getting a kick out of the OP basically making the argument that since they won millions playing the lottery, everyone could be millionaires by playing the lottery.


Then again, companies running lotteries wouldn't be making millions themselves if people didn't fall for this fallacy in real life :negative:

Not to mention that if fancy loot dropped with any regularity it wouldn't be worth nearly as much.


Now if somebody had kicked a hole in OP with simple arithmetic like that back in page one, maybe there wouldn't be 50 pages of this.
Or maybe there would. At least by now OP has definitely left the LOL I TROL JOO territory, so must actually believe the lottery is a source for all to get fabulously wealthy!!!

Anyone not doing so must be weak, stupid or some other version of a bad person, it seems. Ass burgers, ass burgers everywhere.





Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#984 - 2013-12-20 03:38:32 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
I'm still getting a kick out of the OP basically making the argument that since they won millions playing the lottery, everyone could be millionaires by playing the lottery.


Then again, companies running lotteries wouldn't be making millions themselves if people didn't fall for this fallacy in real life :negative:

Not to mention that if fancy loot dropped with any regularity it wouldn't be worth nearly as much.


Now if somebody had kicked a hole in OP with simple arithmetic like that back in page one, maybe there wouldn't be 50 pages of this.
Or maybe there would. At least by now OP has definitely left the LOL I TROL JOO territory, so must actually believe the lottery is a source for all to get fabulously wealthy!!!

Anyone not doing so must be weak, stupid or some other version of a bad person, it seems. Ass burgers, ass burgers everywhere.

There would have been. Reference the thread (I cba to find it) on mobile depots supposedly being overpowered.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#985 - 2013-12-20 03:53:44 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Chopper Rollins wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
I'm still getting a kick out of the OP basically making the argument that since they won millions playing the lottery, everyone could be millionaires by playing the lottery.


Then again, companies running lotteries wouldn't be making millions themselves if people didn't fall for this fallacy in real life :negative:

Not to mention that if fancy loot dropped with any regularity it wouldn't be worth nearly as much.


Now if somebody had kicked a hole in OP with simple arithmetic like that back in page one, maybe there wouldn't be 50 pages of this.
Or maybe there would. At least by now OP has definitely left the LOL I TROL JOO territory, so must actually believe the lottery is a source for all to get fabulously wealthy!!!

Anyone not doing so must be weak, stupid or some other version of a bad person, it seems. Ass burgers, ass burgers everywhere.

There would have been. Reference the thread (I cba to find it) on mobile depots supposedly being overpowered.

Ass... burgers?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#986 - 2013-12-20 04:13:55 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
I'm still getting a kick out of the OP basically making the argument that since they won millions playing the lottery, everyone could be millionaires by playing the lottery.


Then again, companies running lotteries wouldn't be making millions themselves if people didn't fall for this fallacy in real life :negative:

Not to mention that if fancy loot dropped with any regularity it wouldn't be worth nearly as much.


Now if somebody had kicked a hole in OP with simple arithmetic like that back in page one, maybe there wouldn't be 50 pages of this.
Or maybe there would. At least by now OP has definitely left the LOL I TROL JOO territory, so must actually believe the lottery is a source for all to get fabulously wealthy!!!

Anyone not doing so must be weak, stupid or some other version of a bad person, it seems. Ass burgers, ass burgers everywhere.

So far the only person that has posted proof - screen shots showing ridiculous amounts of high end loot, is me. All you have offered is opinion and bias. My screens disprove your 'math' :)

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#987 - 2013-12-20 04:21:03 UTC
Which means nothing.
Did you not see or understand the lottery analogy?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#988 - 2013-12-20 04:35:55 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Which means nothing.
Did you not see or understand the lottery analogy?

Can you win a lottery for me so i can make tons of isk as well

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#989 - 2013-12-20 04:57:42 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Which means nothing.
Did you not see or understand the lottery analogy?

No because its not a lottery. The drop rate is too high. I can predict when I go plexing that I will make x amount and possibly y amount. I always make x amount (OE and bounties) which are not random. I can rat in belts or run an anom semi afk while I'm scanning sigs, that's guaranteed income. While the drops may be random they are so consistent I have never returned to high without a billion or 5 in y income as well.

A lottery usually provides you with a very small chance of winning something. Plexes provide you with a very big chance of winning something and getting a guaranteed income as well.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#990 - 2013-12-20 05:01:47 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

So far the only person that has posted proof - screen shots showing ridiculous amounts of high end loot, is me. All you have offered is opinion and bias. My screens disprove your 'math' :)


If that high end loot was as easy to get and as abundent as you say then it wouldn't come with the pricetag it does. As we have told you on almost every page of this thread, you cannot support thousands of people on sigs.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#991 - 2013-12-20 07:53:16 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

So far the only person that has posted proof - screen shots showing ridiculous amounts of high end loot, is me. All you have offered is opinion and bias. My screens disprove your 'math' :)


If that high end loot was as easy to get and as abundent as you say then it wouldn't come with the pricetag it does. As we have told you on almost every page of this thread, you cannot support thousands of people on sigs.

You guys seem to be doing pretty well, even with your self imposed limitations.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#992 - 2013-12-20 07:56:14 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

So far the only person that has posted proof - screen shots showing ridiculous amounts of high end loot, is me. All you have offered is opinion and bias. My screens disprove your 'math' :)


If that high end loot was as easy to get and as abundent as you say then it wouldn't come with the pricetag it does. As we have told you on almost every page of this thread, you cannot support thousands of people on sigs.

someone quick take a screenshot of a winning lottery ticket

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#993 - 2013-12-20 07:59:47 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

So far the only person that has posted proof - screen shots showing ridiculous amounts of high end loot, is me. All you have offered is opinion and bias. My screens disprove your 'math' :)


If that high end loot was as easy to get and as abundent as you say then it wouldn't come with the pricetag it does. As we have told you on almost every page of this thread, you cannot support thousands of people on sigs.

someone quick take a screenshot of a winning lottery ticket

Hopefully a few people read this thread and do take a look at my 'winning lottery tickets' and decide not to become publordslaves. Since we can just take it for free.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Dirk Massive
D.O.O.M.
#994 - 2013-12-20 08:07:35 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
[ Ass burgers, ass burgers everywhere.






Ok did somebody say Ass Burgers? And them being everywhere? Now this thread got my interest, finally after 50 pages, lol.

**Bringing WAR and TERROR to a system near you.... **
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#995 - 2013-12-20 09:16:16 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

So far the only person that has posted proof - screen shots showing ridiculous amounts of high end loot, is me. All you have offered is opinion and bias. My screens disprove your 'math' :)


If that high end loot was as easy to get and as abundent as you say then it wouldn't come with the pricetag it does. As we have told you on almost every page of this thread, you cannot support thousands of people on sigs.

You guys seem to be doing pretty well, even with your self imposed limitations.


We abuse moneypit that is highsec.
Vidua Arte Album
Epic Boo Bees
#996 - 2013-12-20 09:25:20 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

So far the only person that has posted proof - screen shots showing ridiculous amounts of high end loot, is me. All you have offered is opinion and bias. My screens disprove your 'math' :)


If that high end loot was as easy to get and as abundent as you say then it wouldn't come with the pricetag it does. As we have told you on almost every page of this thread, you cannot support thousands of people on sigs.

You guys seem to be doing pretty well, even with your self imposed limitations.

You don't seem to understand what he's saying, or you jumped into your ******* hypocrite mode again.

Logic. If these items would drop so often, they'd be worth lot less. Confirm/Deny?
And please don't sidestep. It's a yes/no question. I understand why people don't really take you seriously, but you can do better than that.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#997 - 2013-12-20 10:45:40 UTC
Vidua Arte Album wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

So far the only person that has posted proof - screen shots showing ridiculous amounts of high end loot, is me. All you have offered is opinion and bias. My screens disprove your 'math' :)


If that high end loot was as easy to get and as abundent as you say then it wouldn't come with the pricetag it does. As we have told you on almost every page of this thread, you cannot support thousands of people on sigs.

You guys seem to be doing pretty well, even with your self imposed limitations.

You don't seem to understand what he's saying, or you jumped into your ******* hypocrite mode again.

Logic. If these items would drop so often, they'd be worth lot less. Confirm/Deny?
And please don't sidestep. It's a yes/no question. I understand why people don't really take you seriously, but you can do better than that.

Approximately 10-15% of subscribers live in null sec. I don't know exactly how many. Approximately 65-70% live in high sec. Therefore you have 10-15% of subscribers supplying 65-70% of subscribers with null plex mods. That is in my opinion why the price remains so high.

Should be noted that since I started playing again 6 months ago, Vindi BPC have dropped from 1 billion or so to 800 million (20%), Rattlesnakes BPC have dropped from 800 million to 250 million (70%).

Having said that there I imagine the EVE market and its trends and prices are quite complex and so a statement like the one you made in regards to yes / no is quite difficult. It could equally be said, if these items didn't drop as much as I say they do, they would be worth a lot more?

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#998 - 2013-12-20 14:33:14 UTC  |  Edited by: E-2C Hawkeye
Jenn aSide wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:



This is true, which is why I meantion Sister's of EVE, Trust Partners, Cosmos farming, and used the example of the Bank of Luminare and Allotek There are plenty of others that can get you too or close to the magical 2k isk/lp markand have agents in 0.5/0.6 (max high sec LP gain) systems. The thread is about High Sec isk making.

Incursions being disruptable is it's one real saving grace. Missions are less disruptable.


The balance here is simple. Should you think hi-sec is more profit, then go do it. Should you think null is better...go do it......should you think low is better.....guess what? then go do it.

All these options are available to all in EvE.

Crying over who can make more isk is as stupid as moving from America to Iceland and then complaining because your not making enough money.

No one is stopping you from doing any of these. Like you and your forum troll buddies like to point out....its a sand box go dig your own hole and stop pizzing in mine



Before I say anything, let me say, this is why we're always in an arguement, because in addition to being wrong about it you seem to get defensive about it to.

No to the reply. You see, I do all those things. i've lost 5 caracals in the last few days doing low sec lvl 4s i've been mission running in high sec since 2007 (and since 2008 I've been doing sister's missions, started doing them back when you could get combat missions out of the agent in Gicodel since I lived in the Dodixe/Vylade area). I run incursions with ISN, TVP and Warp To Me and I've done every type of null PVE there is to be had.

And as a PVE player (and a honest person....) I'm saying the balance is off. With the exception of Sisters of EVE , Cosmos farming and those bugged high sec lvl 5s, if you wanted null sec level isk, you HAD to go to null sec and this was right and proper because the game is supposed to follow a "higher risk = higher rewards" scheme.

Now it's all screwed up, Wormholes are the only area that work right (highest risk, highest rewards), but high sec incursions are super farmable, people have found ways to make super isk out of even non-pirate high sec lp stores and the military upgrade system that once made null sec an ok place to live got nerfed "in order to drive conflict" (it just drove us back to low and null sec with our isking alts). All that totally leaves aside the utter brokenness that is faction warfare.

I think CCP will get around to fixing some of it, well, as long as their not in total and utter denial the way a bunch of priviledged high sec players trying to defend the broken status quo are.
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#999 - 2013-12-20 14:52:43 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Which means nothing.
Did you not see or understand the lottery analogy?

No because its not a lottery. The drop rate is too high. I can predict when I go plexing that I will make x amount and possibly y amount. I always make x amount (OE and bounties) which are not random. I can rat in belts or run an anom semi afk while I'm scanning sigs, that's guaranteed income. While the drops may be random they are so consistent I have never returned to high without a billion or 5 in y income as well.

A lottery usually provides you with a very small chance of winning something. Plexes provide you with a very big chance of winning something and getting a guaranteed income as well.


Well I must be doing something wrong because the plexes I run usually drop complete shite.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#1000 - 2013-12-20 16:19:36 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:



This is true, which is why I meantion Sister's of EVE, Trust Partners, Cosmos farming, and used the example of the Bank of Luminare and Allotek There are plenty of others that can get you too or close to the magical 2k isk/lp markand have agents in 0.5/0.6 (max high sec LP gain) systems. The thread is about High Sec isk making.

Incursions being disruptable is it's one real saving grace. Missions are less disruptable.


The balance here is simple. Should you think hi-sec is more profit, then go do it. Should you think null is better...go do it......should you think low is better.....guess what? then go do it.

All these options are available to all in EvE.

Crying over who can make more isk is as stupid as moving from America to Iceland and then complaining because your not making enough money.

No one is stopping you from doing any of these. Like you and your forum troll buddies like to point out....its a sand box go dig your own hole and stop pizzing in mine



Before I say anything, let me say, this is why we're always in an arguement, because in addition to being wrong about it you seem to get defensive about it to.

No to the reply. You see, I do all those things. i've lost 5 caracals in the last few days doing low sec lvl 4s i've been mission running in high sec since 2007 (and since 2008 I've been doing sister's missions, started doing them back when you could get combat missions out of the agent in Gicodel since I lived in the Dodixe/Vylade area). I run incursions with ISN, TVP and Warp To Me and I've done every type of null PVE there is to be had.

And as a PVE player (and a honest person....) I'm saying the balance is off. With the exception of Sisters of EVE , Cosmos farming and those bugged high sec lvl 5s, if you wanted null sec level isk, you HAD to go to null sec and this was right and proper because the game is supposed to follow a "higher risk = higher rewards" scheme.

Now it's all screwed up, Wormholes are the only area that work right (highest risk, highest rewards), but high sec incursions are super farmable, people have found ways to make super isk out of even non-pirate high sec lp stores and the military upgrade system that once made null sec an ok place to live got nerfed "in order to drive conflict" (it just drove us back to low and null sec with our isking alts). All that totally leaves aside the utter brokenness that is faction warfare.

I think CCP will get around to fixing some of it, well, as long as their not in total and utter denial the way a bunch of priviledged high sec players trying to defend the broken status quo are.


No the reason you and I always disagree is because of you inability for you to see past your own nose. The proof is in the pudding from all your post. You see the game as a sand box yet you only see it through your own eyes. You cannot grasp that because other people choose to play the game different than you do that they have to be wrong and you of course are playing it right.

Again bottom line here is should you feel you could make more isk in hi-sec no one is stopping you so go do it. What you want is the ability to sit one area of the game you hate and you want everyone else to hate the game you choose to play as much as you do.

Should someone choose to play the game different than you yet make more isk per hour than you then kudos to them. That is something that you can’t have in your sandbox though is it?