EVE General Discussion

But dem neuts in mah local...

You don't realize that buying virtual currency makes playing online games basically worthless. It's like putting a infinite money code in an offline game. Even if you take longer to farm a smaller amount, that farming can be a fun session that someone is paying 15 bucks to have.

Its basically playing (and enjoying) a game you pay for against paying to play a game you already pay for. I can understand though that some people prefer shortcuts than earning by own merits. I don't condone someone with 1-3h a day to play and rather buy ISK to do other things instead of farming.

But these same people would rather choose to have more time to do more things in game (including farming) if they had the option. I just don't understand people that have the time and are still lazy to play the game.

Well, each one knows its own driving force to play a game.

Unless they're negative ten, anyway.

I'll actually address the OP's question of "why do people run L4s in high sec".

I can't really speak for others, so I'll share my personal reasons:

1) I created my account less than a month ago, so with my limited SP, I may end up over my head in certain nullsec situations or sites
2) with my 1-month old account I can make 40-60 mil an hour running missions in a long-range sentry fit dominix with MJD, in complete safety
3) the missions give me the opportunity to experiment with various fits and combat approaches in complete safety, experiments which I can later apply in complexes
4) given my lack of infrastructure support as a mostly solo player, inability to get loot into/out of null (I can't fly a carrier, i don't have access to a jump bridge, scanning wormholes into high sec is very unreliable
5) i need constant access to high sec to buy things like skillbooks and equipment
6) i wanted to grind out rep to install a jump clone

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However I think maybe you have some issues with basic math. First of all, before you fling around totally inaccurate numbers, you should acquaint yourself with the basic equation for your income:

in a given "session" (interval spent running complexes/sites, at the end of which you haul your loot out to sell it)

Isk/hour = profit / time spent

profit = (number of sites run * average bounty per site) + (value of loot items dropped * probability of that loot dropping) - (value of SELLABLE loot * probability you will get ganked hauling it out) - (value of your DPS ship * probability you may be ganked)

time spent = (time spent running sites + time spent finding sites + time spent sitting in cloak waiting for others to leave + travel time + hauling)


I think you would agree that those BPCs you got lucky on don't fall 100% of the time, and if you actually considered that your isk/hour is a fraction of what you claim. With analytical/math skills like that you'd probably go to vegas, get lucky on one slot machine, then spend the rest of your stay there feeding the casino your money until you spent your college fund and your rent money too - since according to you your must lucky session clearly represents the success rate of EVERY session. 2 billion once isn't 2 billion every time, get that through your head, so your one 'lucky" experience is not a valid metric on which to dole out advice on how people should spend their time.

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One more point: using the very same computer, on a different monitor, often at the same time as playing Eve, I do consulting work for clients, and that work pays enough where I can buy enough PLEX to buy several titans every week. Meanwhile, on the other monitor, I'm just fine earning 1/10000th as much running L4 missions, because the purpose of me signing up for eve was to find a form of entertainment, not because I was seeking an additional job. This point seems to be lost with you, as to why anyone would want to do something other than grind out ISK, being that eve is a game and all. I would assume that probably the value of your time in general is very low (or possibly zero, if you're unemployed living with your parents or something), there can be no other reason for your insistence that nullsec running is highly profitable and any other Eve activity is a waste of time.

Since ISK/hour seems to be your only metric of success for playing a game such as Eve, perhaps you should pursue a higher education or learn a trade skill so that you can finally break out of that $4/hour "burger flipping" bracket. If you actually succeeded at that, you would be sitting on a dozen titans at the end of your month of gameplay, instead of a paltry 7 billion isk (yes, you earned...,$300 in ISK this month, congratulations you're below the poverty line) and we'd all clap and pat you on the back. Meanwhile, the rest of us prefer to spend their valuable time and money on something other than an eve-job - like steaks, vacations and hobbies that involve seeing sunlight once in a while.

Video games with real world money interchange are never very profitable. Just ask the chinese World of Warcraft farmers who grind gold for around 50 cents an hour. The only way to make any real money is to run bots, and if you're smart enough to write sophisticated bots, maybe you should be doing something else for a living anyway.

My 2 isk

Let's discuss this in CAOD

Ignoring the mud-slinging and name calling, I am curious as to why running anoms / complexes - a task that can be done solo, and started / afked / completed on your own timeframe - is repeatedly being compared to running incursions, something for which you require a fleet, organisation, and is dependent on other peoples availability and timeframe?

Surely it is unfair to compare solo and fleet incomes? I agree that like-for-like an activity should pay more as you go lower in security. I also agree that something that requires multiple people to work together should be more profitable than something you can do solo. Whether fleet activity in high should beat solo activity in null I am not sure, but it just seems strange to me that they are being compared as if they are equivalent.

I do exploration in low and sometimes null, depending on where my pve toons wormholes take him but have never done an incursion, so maybe I am missing something? Is it possible to run an incursion at any time, or solo?

In my own experience I would say that the income I get from deep space exploration comes with a greater satisfaction/fun-ISK ratio than the income I used to get from high sec lv4s. I wouldn't dare to guess at the true isk/hour as I have horrendous luck with loot drops and just the occasional jackpot, but I have fun. That has to be worth something in a game right? :)

Very simple. As an individual pilot, it's irrelevant that you need other people for incursions. You need other people to take and hold sov to make system upgrade possible as well. With incursion fleets, you pay nothing but your time and participation (and a tip to the off grid booster. In null, you're either paying rent or your attending CTAs or otherwise paying for your ability to use the space.

I pilot a machariel. i can either use that mach to make 120 to 150 mil an hour solo in null (watching local like a hawk) or I can use the same mach in an ISN shiney fleet in high sec not watching local making 180 mil an hour (4 HQ sites per hour). As an individual, that's not a hard choice to make. incursion all the way.



The OP isnj't talking about the fun. The OP is saying that you can make more isk in null sec doing exploration than you can in high sec lvl 4s. While this is partially true, the OP doesn't take into account so many factors that affect actual ingame behavior (factors some of us have tried to explain, only to watch all of it fall on willfully deaf ears). Those factors (not the least of which is reliable and nearly un0interuptable income ) are why very many null sec pilots have alts in empire for isk making instead of using those alts in null sec. I fly in null because I actually like PVE, but most people arne't like me.

Very very few people factor in fun when it comes to making isk. We look at raw numbers and right now the best form of income are high sec incursions.

The reason is simple. I made a statement that you can make up to 500 million an hour in null sec. I was ridiculed and called names. I then proved that it was not only possible but you could make 4 billion in a couple of hours if you were lucky. My drops were consistent not pot luck drops.

Now they have decided to switch to incursions as an argument, despite specifically stating in the original thread that started all this that I was not talking about incursions and despite specifying that I was talking about missions in this threads original post.

I think its just an ego thing and they also are a bit upset that I exposed their isk printing machine most likely.

Speaking of incursions I read this a while ago and thought it might shed some light on incursions vs anoms thing even though they're completely seperate, one solable, the other requiring fleets...



Link

Bolded the important part lol