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High Sec Income vs Null Sec Income - the reality

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Author
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#461 - 2013-10-22 14:54:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:
La Nariz wrote:


Highsec is way less effort to get the same isk, hence these threads keep happening.


If it's the same isk, you might be terrible at EVE.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're mistaking one of those commas for a decimal point.


He shold have said "more" instead of the same. High sec incursions will put more isk in your wallet per month than all but the luckiest null sec exploration will. I've got corp/alliance mates who don't even bother PVEing in null anymore.

Why do that when you can take a 5 bil Vindicator, join a ISN or other shiney fleet and make a stead 180 mil an hour in isk and concord LP? All without having to so much as glance at local.

So my screenshots weren't enough then lol. In the last month I made 7 billion, then the 1 billion screen shot, then the 4 billion screenshot soloing in null. That's 12 billion isk. I doubt anyone makes 12 billion isk on one account + scout casual high sec missioning.

I know I ran high sec missions for ages.

Also you don't have to keep an eye on local or constantly d-scan - peripheral vision is a skill to develop - I got 2 escalations to the same system a few weeks ago, Spacemonkey hub system, I renamed my Ishtar to (Bunja's Ishtar, or was it Bunya) the name of a guy in local and did the two escalations with 10 Goons in system. Click the dscan every minute for probes... no problem..

If you die to an npc doing a combat site you've made a very serious error, they're extremely easy to do, the 10/10's are cake. Escalations are easy apart from the Kika one.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#462 - 2013-10-22 15:06:15 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
P? All without having to so much as glance at local.

So my screenshots weren't enough then lol. In the last month I made 7 billion, then the 1 billion screen shot, then the 4 billion screenshot soloing in null. That's 12 billion isk. I doubt anyone makes 12 billion isk on one account + scout casual high sec missioning.


See the prejudice there. Don't even include incursions.

3 hours of high sec incursions with a shiney fleet will bring in 350 to 550 mil. Do that every day for a month, guess how much you'll have. And I have.

But there is another issue, and one where you consitantly prove my point about you. you ignore the fact that other folks aren't doing things for the same reasons you are.

A PVPr doens't need 12 bil a month. Hell, I plexed 4 accounts and (when I was in the mood to pvp) bought ships to use for 1/3rd of that. This is a major reason why peopel have high sec pve alts. Unlike sov null pve, high sec pve isn't chance based (except for high sec exploration, which null alliance types don't usually do).

You also ignore every "reward vs effort" argument people use (which is why I say you aren't interested in the truth).


Quote:

Also you don't have to keep an eye on local or constantly d-scan - peripheral vision is a skill to develop - I got 2 escalations to the same system a few weeks ago, Spacemonkey hub system, I renamed my Ishtar to the name of a guy in local and did the two escalations with 10 Goons in local. Click the dscan every minute for probes... no problem..


OR you could incursion in high sec and make the same or more isk per hour and not so much as have to click dscan or look at local. You can mission in high sec for less isk but way more reliable income.

Quote:

If you die to an npc doing a combat site you've made a very serious error, they're extremely easy to do, the 10/10's are cake. Escalations are easy apart from the Kika one.


and here is where inexperience shows. Say that after the Blood Raider 10/10 lol.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#463 - 2013-10-22 15:09:07 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Blood Raider 10/10.



We sure are

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#464 - 2013-10-22 15:29:48 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
P? All without having to so much as glance at local.

So my screenshots weren't enough then lol. In the last month I made 7 billion, then the 1 billion screen shot, then the 4 billion screenshot soloing in null. That's 12 billion isk. I doubt anyone makes 12 billion isk on one account + scout casual high sec missioning.


See the prejudice there. Don't even include incursions.

3 hours of high sec incursions with a shiney fleet will bring in 350 to 550 mil. Do that every day for a month, guess how much you'll have. And I have.

But there is another issue, and one where you consitantly prove my point about you. you ignore the fact that other folks aren't doing things for the same reasons you are.

A PVPr doens't need 12 bil a month. Hell, I plexed 4 accounts and (when I was in the mood to pvp) bought ships to use for 1/3rd of that. This is a major reason why peopel have high sec pve alts. Unlike sov null pve, high sec pve isn't chance based (except for high sec exploration, which null alliance types don't usually do).

You also ignore every "reward vs effort" argument people use (which is why I say you aren't interested in the truth).


Quote:

Also you don't have to keep an eye on local or constantly d-scan - peripheral vision is a skill to develop - I got 2 escalations to the same system a few weeks ago, Spacemonkey hub system, I renamed my Ishtar to the name of a guy in local and did the two escalations with 10 Goons in local. Click the dscan every minute for probes... no problem..


OR you could incursion in high sec and make the same or more isk per hour and not so much as have to click dscan or look at local. You can mission in high sec for less isk but way more reliable income.

Quote:

If you die to an npc doing a combat site you've made a very serious error, they're extremely easy to do, the 10/10's are cake. Escalations are easy apart from the Kika one.


and here is where inexperience shows. Say that after the Blood Raider 10/10 lol.

The reason I say high sec MISSIONING is very simple. I have never done an incursion, nor would I. I don't know if you remember it, but I there was a thread about a month or two ago in which I got a good deal of abuse and redicule saying that one can earn up to 500 million per hour in null sec. That thread was about MISSIONS and MISSIONING.

So I went out to null and spent a good month out there to see how I would go. First time I had really been to nullsec since I was in Stain Alliance way back in 2004 or 2005. So I think I pretty much proved a) how safe it is even for a null newblet like myself b) how insanely profitable it is even for a null newblet with no place to dock, refit or rearm and surrounded by a sea of Goons.

It was EASY. No deaths. Didn't even get locked. If I can do it anyone can. Especially someone in an alliance, in friendly space, with intel channels and a station in every few systems.

Of course a PvP'r needs 12 billion a month. That would pay for half a tail light on a super. We could all use 12 billion a month. Even if you don't. The potential to make that with very little effort is there in null. PvP'rs probably come to highsec because they want to carebear it up, relax totally, go afk, not be annoyed with calls to arms yada yada. Probably lots of reasons, but definitely not because its more or as profitable because its not.

MISSIONS, after a few weeks, make me go insane. They suck. Isk wise and fun wise.

Also I did die today to a 10/10 Blood Raider lol - you're psychic

2013.10.22 08:55:00

Victim: Infinity Ziona
Corp: Cloakers
Alliance: Unknown
Faction: Unknown
Destroyed: Loki
System:
Security: -0.5
Damage Taken: 13339

Involved parties:

Name: Corpus Pope / Blood Raider Covenant (laid the final blow)

But luckily before I go do this stuff, I go on SiSi and test it out, so my big mistakes don't happen on Tranq.


CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#465 - 2013-10-22 15:48:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Infinity Ziona wrote:


The reason I say high sec MISSIONING is very simple. I have never done an incursion, nor would I.



Allow me to remind you of the name of your own thread:

High Sec Income vs Null Sec Income - the reality.

High sec incursions are in high sec (lol duh). You can't leave them out because you don't like them, they actually exist. If you wanted to compare "only" high sec missions to null sec exploration, you should say that. However, that's still an apples to oranges comparison. null sec missions pay more than exploration in the long run.

Over time, high sec mission income (missions done steadily) will come close to what you can get from exploration under the conditions most player experience (ie unlike you, null alliance members can just wonder around and explore, they have toher concerns to deal wtih). Null exploration income varies, you can't put a true isk/hr figure on an activity ruled by a random number generator.

Quote:

I don't know if you remember it, but I there was a thread about a month or two ago in which I got a good deal of abuse and redicule saying that one can earn up to 500 million per hour in null sec. That thread was about MISSIONS and MISSIONING.


What you were told is that it couldn't be SUSTAINED. And it can't. Go to the missions and complexes forums right now. i can show you at least 3 front page threads talking about plexes not dropping anything lol.

Like those missions and complexes posters, you don't have enough experience that would tell you the flaw in your thinking. A good streath of 11 or 12 DED plexes with nothing but OPEs usually cures that unless one is too tied to tehir prejudices.

And while a player is going on that DED nothing streak, other smarter players will be in high sec running incursions (or missions as filler if all the high sec moms get popped).

Quote:

So I went out to null and spent a good month out there to see how I would go. First time I had really been to nullsec since I was in Stain Alliance way back in 2004 or 2005. So I think I pretty much proved a) how safe it is even for a null newblet like myself b) how insanely profitable it is even for a null newblet with no place to dock, refit or rearm and surrounded by a sea of Goons.


It was EASY. No deaths. Didn't even get locked. If I can do it anyone can. Especially someone in an alliance, in friendly space, with intel channels and a station in every few systems.[/quote]

And this is where you miss the point the most. Try the same thing in space where the residents aren't deployed and where other people are trying to find the same finite source of plexes. If you were more honest, you'd be able to see that you stumbled upon a fairly unique situation: The space with the easiest plexes + residents gone + some luck.

Your psots stink of confirmation bias.

Quote:

Of course a PvP'r needs 12 billion a month. That would pay for half a tail light on a super. We could all use 12 billion a month. Even if you don't. The potential to make that with very little effort is there in null. PvP'rs probably come to highsec because they want to carebear it up, relax totally, go afk, not be annoyed with calls to arms yada yada. Probably lots of reasons, but definitely not because its more or as profitable because its not.


Do you see what you're doing? You act like high sec incursions don't exist (simply because you don't do them, there's that innate selfishness of yours that I pointed out to you a while back) and you don't understand even your own situation in the space you chose to invade.

You're pretty hopeless, but that's ok (to each his own, even when his own is wrong :) ), at this point I post so that newbs who really want to learn will be able to read something that's not just insane lol.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#466 - 2013-10-22 16:08:57 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Allow me to remind you of the name of your own thread:

High Sec Income vs Null Sec Income - the reality.


infinity ziona posts have never had anything to do with reality
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#467 - 2013-10-22 16:09:35 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
stuff

I think you're the one who's biased lol.

In my original post (the OP) of this thread I specfically state on the first line:

Quote:
There is always a lot of talk on the forums from the null sec cartel crowd about the profitability of high sec mission running, especially in comparison to null sec.

Now Its not my fault you didn't understand or didn't read that. I'm talking about missions... I have never done an incursion. Now you can say yada yada yada, incursions are part of high sec but they're rather exclusive aren't they to specific ships, specific setups, require lots of people to run... combat sites and missions however are not. They're soloable and available all the time.

Also I started in Fountain, in that system that Test lost the war over, forgot the name, plexed all the way up and around cloud ring, NPC null included and so on till I got a few systems away from VFK then all the way back again down into the Li Federation systems then back up again to VFK.

So where exactly have all these Goons deployed too? Highsec? I don't see any wars going on....

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#468 - 2013-10-22 16:10:47 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Allow me to remind you of the name of your own thread:

High Sec Income vs Null Sec Income - the reality.


infinity ziona posts have never had anything to do with reality

Clarified on the first line of the first post to be dealing specifically with missions - are we picky because we're wrong ? I think so.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#469 - 2013-10-22 17:10:55 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Now Its not my fault you didn't understand or didn't read that. I'm talking about missions... I have never done an incursion.

then you cannot make broad statements about income levels across EVE sec statuses. you can rationalize it all you want , but your thread name is a lie.

Quote:

Now you can say yada yada yada, incursions are part of high sec but they're rather exclusive aren't they to specific ships, specific setups, require lots of people to run... combat sites and missions however are not. They're soloable and available all the time.


Go Solo Blood Raider Naval Shipyard lol. And they are only "avalaible" when other people are not contesting them.

I ask this a lot, but you'r enot of the personality type than likes honesty. But here goes again: Do you not see what you are doing. You are trying to make a conclusion (the preconceived notion you started with) fit the facts.

iI don't really care that you're not open to the truth, what I find wrong is how you try to foist you opinion out on others (you did that with the "null sec is safE" bull when you then went out and proved that one person in a ship makes null sec less safe than high sec lol) while ignoring what people with more actual experience are trying to share with you.

Quote:

Also I started in Fountain, in that system that Test lost the war over, forgot the name, plexed all the way up and around cloud ring, NPC null included and so on till I got a few systems away from VFK then all the way back again down into the Li Federation systems then back up again to VFK.

So where exactly have all these Goons deployed too? Highsec? I don't see any wars going on....


You aren't looking. Not surprising since you're not listening either. It's all good, in each post you discredit yourself further, but I wonder why you bother. oh well, it's your time to waste I guess.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#470 - 2013-10-22 17:12:04 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Allow me to remind you of the name of your own thread:

High Sec Income vs Null Sec Income - the reality.


infinity ziona posts have never had anything to do with reality


I know it, I just marvel at how someone can see a blue sky and call it red lol.
Eaphod
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#471 - 2013-10-22 17:27:47 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


You seem to think that I need to have a reason to attack them, or that they need to have some assets worth attacking, etc.

No.

People don't do it for economic reasons(at least not right now). They do it to kill people. I don't care if all they are is a chat channel. I want to shoot at them. But because the method for me to do that is broken, then it does not matter what my intentions are, because they can just dodge it and avoid any PvP at all unless I suicide gank them. In which, my targets are considerably constrained.

I don't care if they aren't bothering me, or if they have any assets worth attacking, or whatever. Why should they be allowed to avoid PvP in a game like EVE?


You just said yourself you can suicide gank, therefor, no one is immune to PVP, it just shifts the prerogative to the attacker to determine risk vs reward in the case of a suicide gank.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#472 - 2013-10-22 17:34:32 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:


The reason I say high sec MISSIONING is very simple. I have never done an incursion, nor would I.



Allow me to remind you of the name of your own thread:

High Sec Income vs Null Sec Income - the reality.

High sec incursions are in high sec (lol duh).

using your logic we can use alliance level income for standard 0.0 income then?
Why not? it's 0.0 after all!


fail. just fail.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#473 - 2013-10-22 17:36:54 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:


The reason I say high sec MISSIONING is very simple. I have never done an incursion, nor would I.



Allow me to remind you of the name of your own thread:

High Sec Income vs Null Sec Income - the reality.

High sec incursions are in high sec (lol duh).

using your logic we can use alliance level income for standard 0.0 income then?
Why not? it's 0.0 after all!


fail. just fail.


I know english isn't your 1st language, but none of that makes any sense. Try that again so i can know what you are talking about.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#474 - 2013-10-22 17:41:28 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:


The reason I say high sec MISSIONING is very simple. I have never done an incursion, nor would I.



Allow me to remind you of the name of your own thread:

High Sec Income vs Null Sec Income - the reality.

High sec incursions are in high sec (lol duh).

using your logic we can use alliance level income for standard 0.0 income then?
Why not? it's 0.0 after all!


fail. just fail.


I know english isn't your 1st language, but none of that makes any sense. Try that again so i can know what you are talking about.

it won't help you: you don't read anyway. you just post the same crap about "high-sec == incursion".

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Black Canary Jnr
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#475 - 2013-10-22 17:43:24 UTC
Completely with jenn here, infinity is full of bull.

Take into account incursions which are by far the most lucrative thing in high sec or GTFO because you are comparing a relatively ok, constant income source with a income source that is based on luck and availability.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#476 - 2013-10-22 17:43:40 UTC
March rabbit wrote:

it won't help you: you don't read anyway. you just post the same crap about "high-sec == incursion".



Yes, incursions do exist in high sec. What's your point?

Should we ignore the best pve isk making in high sec for some reason?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#477 - 2013-10-22 17:45:27 UTC
Black Canary Jnr wrote:
Completely with jenn here, infinity is full of bull.


Thanks, oh and your wallet should be flashing right now (lol J/k i live in null so I'm broke).

Quote:

Take into account incursions which are by far the most lucrative thing in high sec or GTFO because you are comparing a relatively ok, constant income source with a income source that is based on luck and availability.


None of those things matter to the OP, as is usually the case when a person starts from a prejudiced position then tries to fit reality around it.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#478 - 2013-10-22 17:49:45 UTC
Personally, I applaud anyone who decides upon a specific approach to make ISK, prepares and plans accordingly, then proceeds to make obscene amounts of bank on it.

Let the non-believers bend their knees to their tin gods... it's all they deserve. P


o7

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#479 - 2013-10-22 19:47:19 UTC
Eaphod wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


You seem to think that I need to have a reason to attack them, or that they need to have some assets worth attacking, etc.

No.

People don't do it for economic reasons(at least not right now). They do it to kill people. I don't care if all they are is a chat channel. I want to shoot at them. But because the method for me to do that is broken, then it does not matter what my intentions are, because they can just dodge it and avoid any PvP at all unless I suicide gank them. In which, my targets are considerably constrained.

I don't care if they aren't bothering me, or if they have any assets worth attacking, or whatever. Why should they be allowed to avoid PvP in a game like EVE?


You just said yourself you can suicide gank, therefor, no one is immune to PVP, it just shifts the prerogative to the attacker to determine risk vs reward in the case of a suicide gank.


The post you quoted even states that people in highsec who dec dodge or stay in NPC corps are immune to PvP, but only barring suicide ganks. So, I already had that taken into account. The problem with that, as I have also stated before, is that suicide ganks have a fairly sharp limitation to them in what you can achieve.

You're pretty much empty quoting.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#480 - 2013-10-22 21:47:24 UTC
high-sec income simply doesn't scale across multiple accounts the way afk ishtars/navy vexors do.

you can easily run 5+ afk ishtars at 60m/h per account without needing any specialized multiboxing software or breaking a sweat.

this nearly linear scalability makes null-sec income vastly better than high-sec income.

.