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So this is it for eve, is this the future, is it?

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#541 - 2013-09-04 14:15:22 UTC
JinSanJong wrote:

No Tippia you are what we call a 'drainer' go away your boring the hell out of me now with your nonsense

So you agree then, seeing as how you can't think of any kind of counter-argument or proof to the contrary, and instead have to resort to ad hominems.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#542 - 2013-09-04 14:17:34 UTC
Renters, blue donut, how horrifying

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Arya Greywolf
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#543 - 2013-09-04 14:29:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Arya Greywolf
Hixeppa wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
I think you're missing the point.
The point is that every “impossible large and unbeatable” corp/alliance/coalition in the history of the game has been both beaten and reduced to small numbers.


So far: Two?
And the second has learnt from the mistakes of the first.


Off the top of my head (and I'm sure I'm missing many):

IT Alliance
Intrepid Crossing
BoB
Morsus Mihi
Northern Coalition
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Against All Authorities
Tau Ceti Federation
Solar Fleet
Majestica Empire
Atlas Alliance
White Noise.
Raiden.
Convicted
Cascade Imminent
And yes, even Goonswarm.

All of these large alliances have either been completely destroyed and disbanded or knocked off their large sov holdings at some point.

I am not going to list literally the hundreds of other smaller alliances that have come and gone (that have held sov).
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#544 - 2013-09-04 14:31:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Arya Greywolf wrote:
Hixeppa wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
I think you're missing the point.
The point is that every “impossible large and unbeatable” corp/alliance/coalition in the history of the game has been both beaten and reduced to small numbers.


So far: Two?
And the second has learnt from the mistakes of the first.


Off the top of my head (and I'm sure I'm missing many):

IT Alliance
Intrepid Crossing
BoB
Morsus Mihi
NC. (kicked to the curb in the north)
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Against All Authorities
Tau Ceti Federation
Solar Fleet
Majestica Empire
Atlas Alliance
White Noise.
Raiden.
Convicted
Cascade Imminent
And yes, even Goonswarm.

All of these large alliances have either been completely destroyed and disbanded or knocked off their large sov holdings at some point.

I am not going to list literally the hundreds of other smaller alliances that have come and gone (that have held sov).

Northern Coalition and Northern CoalitionDOT aren't the same either

There was also Kenzoku

TEST isn't dead or reduced to near death

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Linistitul
Gea'Vii Enterprises
#545 - 2013-09-04 14:35:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Linistitul
Barzai Mekhar wrote:
Where exactly am I "escalating" or "stretching" things?

You threw at me a slippery slope argument.
Barzai Mekhar wrote:
Talk about "escalating" things quickly. So far your proposed changes negatively impact:
-Members of the blob that are happy being in a large alliance

From where did you get that idea? They can make their alliance as big as they want.
Barzai Mekhar wrote:
Anyone using positive standings to keep track of corps that are "generally cool guys".

Dude, really? Really? This is where I'm stopping taking you seriously.
Barzai Mekhar wrote:
And everyone not in CVA (from my impression most players in providence) is unable to recognize the threat that known criminals are in the current system?

You can add the tag "Criminal for sov owner". Or if CCP doesn't want new tags, they could copy the Concord and make him flashy red. Was that hard?
Arya Greywolf
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#546 - 2013-09-04 14:42:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Arya Greywolf
Alavaria Fera wrote:

TEST isn't dead or reduced to near death


Arya Greywolf wrote:
All of these large alliances have either been completely destroyed and disbanded or knocked off their large sov holdings at some point.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#547 - 2013-09-04 14:43:38 UTC
TEST hasn't lost yet, they still have Delve

montolio sends his regards

right where they want us

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Arya Greywolf
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#548 - 2013-09-04 14:47:06 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
TEST hasn't lost yet, they still have Delve

montolio sends his regards

right where they want us


I see what you did there.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#549 - 2013-09-04 14:48:23 UTC
Thanks for giving me the chance

not winning fast enough

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#550 - 2013-09-04 14:57:19 UTC
Linistitul wrote:

You can add the tag "Criminal for sov owner". Or if CCP doesn't want new tags, they could copy the Concord and make him flashy red. Was that hard?


So you want to remove all the politics and metagaming and replacing it with a neutered, hardcoded version of NRDS?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#551 - 2013-09-04 15:04:05 UTC
Yeep wrote:
Linistitul wrote:

You can add the tag "Criminal for sov owner". Or if CCP doesn't want new tags, they could copy the Concord and make him flashy red. Was that hard?

So you want to remove all the politics and metagaming and replacing it with a neutered, hardcoded version of NRDS?

It makes FA shot first have a real -impact- to it.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Linistitul
Gea'Vii Enterprises
#552 - 2013-09-04 15:18:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Linistitul
Yeep wrote:
So you want to remove all the politics and metagaming and replacing it with a neutered, hardcoded version of NRDS?

You can shot whoever you want, this part is for addressing the concerns of the NRDS minority. For us, the NBSI majority, treaties should be enough. A sketch can be seen here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3567705#post3567705
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#553 - 2013-09-04 15:41:38 UTC
Linistitul wrote:
Yeep wrote:
So you want to remove all the politics and metagaming and replacing it with a neutered, hardcoded version of NRDS?

You can shot whoever you want, this part is for addressing the concerns of the NRDS minority. For us, the NBSI majority, treaties should be enough. A sketch can be seen here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3567705#post3567705


Oh sorry, I didn't realise this was in addition to your other stupid idea rather than instead of it.
Barzai Mekhar
True Confusion
#554 - 2013-09-04 15:45:09 UTC
Linistitul wrote:

From where did you get that idea? They can make their alliance as big as they want.


So... if alliances can be as big as they want... how is your suggestion supposed to break up the doughnut? If anything it is likely to cause even larger alliances, as it encourages the fusion of alliances that are currently content to blue each other.

Linistitul wrote:

Barzai Mekhar wrote:
Anyone using positive standings to keep track of corps that are "generally cool guys".

Dude, really? Really? This is where I'm stopping taking you seriously.


Your point? In case my choice of wording confused you, let me rephrase "cool guys" as "good neighbours". E.g. people I don't worry about encountering in lowsec, don't expect to gank me and so on. I know I heavily rely on it when operating from low-sec, and I assume I'm not alone in this.

Linistitul wrote:

You can add the tag "Criminal for sov owner". Or if CCP doesn't want new tags, they could copy the Concord and make him flashy red. Was that hard?


You said
Linistitul wrote:

So if you're CVA and a neutral attacks somebody in your sov space, his corp/alliance will get negative sec status (until you decide to reset - people should be able to do that) and everyone from that corp/alliance will start displaying as criminals in your and your allies overviews as long as you see them in your sov space or allies sov space.


so I took that part as a design decission on your part. Even with your suggested change I still believe this system is prone to abuse and insufficient to enforce NRDS due to its automated nature, baiting residents into shooting neutral logis (and thus getting their entire alliances set as criminals) comes to mind.
JinSanJong
Doomheim
#555 - 2013-09-04 16:04:58 UTC
Tippia wrote:
JinSanJong wrote:

No Tippia you are what we call a 'drainer' go away your boring the hell out of me now with your nonsense

So you agree then, seeing as how you can't think of any kind of counter-argument or proof to the contrary, and instead have to resort to ad hominems.


Sorry what was that? I really don't have a clue what you're saying, just comes out as gibberish
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#556 - 2013-09-04 16:11:23 UTC
Yeep wrote:
Linistitul wrote:
Yeep wrote:
So you want to remove all the politics and metagaming and replacing it with a neutered, hardcoded version of NRDS?

You can shot whoever you want, this part is for addressing the concerns of the NRDS minority. For us, the NBSI majority, treaties should be enough. A sketch can be seen here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3567705#post3567705


Oh sorry, I didn't realise this was in addition to your other stupid idea rather than instead of it.

CCP constantly adds on bad ideas on bad ideas.

Have you tried to patch using that launcher recently

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#557 - 2013-09-04 16:27:03 UTC
Arya Greywolf wrote:
Hixeppa wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
I think you're missing the point.
The point is that every “impossible large and unbeatable” corp/alliance/coalition in the history of the game has been both beaten and reduced to small numbers.


So far: Two?
And the second has learnt from the mistakes of the first.


Off the top of my head (and I'm sure I'm missing many):

IT Alliance
Intrepid Crossing
BoB
Morsus Mihi
Northern Coalition
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Against All Authorities
Tau Ceti Federation
Solar Fleet
Majestica Empire
Atlas Alliance
White Noise.
Raiden.
Convicted
Cascade Imminent
And yes, even Goonswarm.

All of these large alliances have either been completely destroyed and disbanded or knocked off their large sov holdings at some point.

I am not going to list literally the hundreds of other smaller alliances that have come and gone (that have held sov).

Was legion of xXDeathXx supposed to be on this list? They got mashed last year.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#558 - 2013-09-04 16:28:26 UTC
JinSanJong wrote:
Tippia wrote:
JinSanJong wrote:

No Tippia you are what we call a 'drainer' go away your boring the hell out of me now with your nonsense

So you agree then, seeing as how you can't think of any kind of counter-argument or proof to the contrary, and instead have to resort to ad hominems.


Sorry what was that? I really don't have a clue what you're saying, just comes out as gibberish

lol
The "I can't understand you" argument. This is basically the last resort argument when there's absolutely no other way to go. This is even below ad hominem.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#559 - 2013-09-04 16:30:50 UTC
JinSanJong wrote:
Sorry what was that? I really don't have a clue what you're saying, just comes out as gibberish

So you agree then, seeing as how you still can't think of any kind of counter-argument or proof to the contrary, and instead have to resort to even more ad hominems.
Linistitul
Gea'Vii Enterprises
#560 - 2013-09-04 16:39:13 UTC
Yeep wrote:
Oh sorry, I didn't realise this was in addition to your other stupid idea rather than instead of it.

Oh, I see, show me on the blue doughnut where the bad people touched you. Argument from consequences much?