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So this is it for eve, is this the future, is it?

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#381 - 2013-08-30 09:48:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You see those words above in those posts you skipped over... you should read them before commentting. No one is suggesting solo pilots should be able to easily blap sov assets. As I have stated over and over I am talking about small to medium gangs.

There I pointed out your failure at reading whats being argued about.
Really? So you didn't post this?
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I play EvE on hard mode. I don't use jump clones. I use full sets of implants in PvP. I don't use booster alts. I jump 100 jumps to get to my hunting grounds dodging your lame blob camps. I solo exclusively. I using billion isk Proteus killing nullbears in hubs with 5 to 20 reds in local.
How does it feel to be hoisted by your own petard?
Maybe you should take your own advice and not skip reading posts, especially your own Oops
Harry Forever wrote:

those ideas are not stupid, you are just not smart enough to get it

you don't murder anything, you just dock... all you do is dock

pathetic nullsec alliances, one ship comes, and you dock

dock dock dock, thats your gameplay

I'm smart enough to realise that they're stupid, which is more than you seem to be, your nuke idea, for example, was so dumb it lowered the IQ of anybody that read it. FYI I rarely play in nullsec and I'm not in an alliance.

edit - Harry, I see you still haven't mastered the art of blocking posts, if memory serves me correctly you stated that you'd blocked me about 6 weeks ago, but have actually failed to left click my name and select block posts, it's not rocket science.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#382 - 2013-08-30 09:48:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
nullbear: hey, an enemie is in the system
crazy nullbear: oh ****
nullbear: **** man
crazy nullbear: hey, why not just dock?
nullbear: hmmm...
crazy nullbear: they can't shoot our stuff, muhahaha!
nullbear: hell yea!

crazy nullbear: *docking*
nullbear: *docking*

this is EvE

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#383 - 2013-08-30 09:52:15 UTC
nullbear: oh man ****, some people did take sov close by
crazy nullbear: oh ****
nullbear: ****, what are we gonna do?
crazy nullbear: **** man, fight?
nullbear: hell no!
crazy nullbear: muahaha, why not be friends with them?
nullbear: lol, **** you are smart

crazy nullbear: *snoring*
nullbear: *snoring*

this is EvE

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#384 - 2013-08-30 10:04:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
Nullbear: *waking up* ****
Crazy nullbear: ****! whats going on?
Nullbear: they changed something in the game!
Crazy nullbear: oh **** man, what?
Nullbear: moons are important now!
Crazy nullbear: **** man, we need to play?
Nullbear: I think so!
Crazy nullbear: **** we are ******
Nullbear: oh **** man, oh ******* ****
Crazy nullbear: this is hell man, ******* hell

this is EvE

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#385 - 2013-08-30 10:16:47 UTC
You know, most of those "nullbears" would be more like "Oh hell yeah, x for MURDER!" but it's funny how you cry. Amusing.

Now, it's worth noting that there's a lot of trash drifting in nullsec space:

- Dramiels/lone 'ceptors. Damn fast to catch, best baited by lone pilots if they feel like killing something. If not? No point forming, they'll just outrun you.
- Ghost T3s. Going after a cloaky/nulli T3 is like chasing a ghost. Their pilots are often too paranoid to pick on a pvp target in fear of a gang/drop so it's not worth the effort.
- Other cloakies. If it's a bomber, it won't fight. If it's a recon, 80% of the time it's a drop.
- As of late, T1 explorer frigates. Just take a Sabre and go gatecamping, scavenge the scavengers for extra irony points.

Thing about trash is nobody actually bothers taking it out, since it's not fun. Two ways to deal with it is blob it and make it die without even a chance to fight back, or leave it to get bored. Both increase a chance of it not coming back, getting a hostile out of your system - accomplishes the objective.

Plus, there's a difference between "fight" and "murder", and it's pretty significant - you can lose a fight, you can't lose a murder. We prefer the latter, one outcome and a lot of fun to do.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#386 - 2013-08-30 10:23:12 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You see those words above in those posts you skipped over... you should read them before commentting. No one is suggesting solo pilots should be able to easily blap sov assets. As I have stated over and over I am talking about small to medium gangs.

There I pointed out your failure at reading whats being argued about.
Really? So you didn't post this?
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I play EvE on hard mode. I don't use jump clones. I use full sets of implants in PvP. I don't use booster alts. I jump 100 jumps to get to my hunting grounds dodging your lame blob camps. I solo exclusively. I using billion isk Proteus killing nullbears in hubs with 5 to 20 reds in local.
How does it feel to be hoisted by your own petard?
Maybe you should take your own advice and not skip reading posts, especially your own Oops

I'll let you in on a little secret - just because one doesn't participate in certain activities in EvE Online doesn't mean one can't have an opinion on aspects of those activities.

We have an enormous amount of nullbear tears over isk generation in highsec missions despite those nullbears not running them. Likewise I would like to see null become more dangerous and less easy mode.

Therefore despite having ever been in a gang or fleet I have a very strong and justifiable argument regarding the server handholding in sov systems.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#387 - 2013-08-30 10:25:45 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
You have blinkers on. Either that or you fail at comprehending my words.

I comprehend you perfectly. You want POCOs to have less HP and no reinforcement cycle. You want this because you want small and medium gangs to be able to do structural damage to large nullsec alliances without the certainty of that nullsec alliance forming up for a timer.
But your idea has several flaws, which have been pointed out more than once.
1. Null sec alliances don't make enough from PI over high sec PI to make a POCO worth defending. This change would just result in null sec alliances taking down POCOs and running PI in high sec.
2. This change would affect the income of small to medium corps working out of low sec, WH space and NPC null. They too would be likely to pull down POCOs and run PI from high sec.
3. Anyone relying on PI to build fuel for their POS would now need to ship fuel from high sec. This would particularly affect WH corps.

Overall your idea would provide you with only short term gains, but would affect anyone running PI outside of high sec long term.

1. If you can't defend it nor afford to lose it don't anchor it except in systems where you can defend it.
2. Small to medium corporations already get facestomped as do their POCO's. A 24 hour timer on a small to medium corporation is unlikely to be defended by a small to medium corporation if the attacker is greater. A 24 hour timer makes no difference. In any case no one is suggesting reinforcement timers be removed, nor that that HP be reduced. There has been no suggestion of any changes being made. Only an observation that the current system is flawed.
3. Booo fugging hooo. If you can't manage to defend your assets and have to import fuel bad luck. EvE is not supposed to be easy or fair.


It's like you don;t even read before you post!
1. If it doesn't make enough ISK, it's not worth defending, so WE SIMPLY WOULDN'T USE THEM. So you would still have nothing to shoot at. I'm not saying we would be sad because they would be hard to defend, they just would not be worth the isk investment and they'd become an unused feature.
2. Small to medium corps don't normally have to worry about huge alliances wandering in and stomping a POCO. We simply don't care enough about taking away a tiny fraction of income to stomp on them.
3. How about boo fugging hoo, if you can't kill a POCO solo then bad luck. EvE is not supposed to be easy or fair.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#388 - 2013-08-30 10:29:14 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I'll let you in on a little secret - just because one doesn't participate in certain activities in EvE Online doesn't mean one can't have an opinion on aspects of those activities.

We have an enormous amount of nullbear tears over isk generation in highsec missions despite those nullbears not running them. Likewise I would like to see null become more dangerous and less easy mode.

ISK generation is far easier and faster in null. I think you'll find the people tearing up over high sec income are not nullbears.

Infinity Ziona wrote:
Therefore despite having ever been in a gang or fleet I have a very strong and justifiable argument regarding the server handholding in sov systems.

No, you have a particularly weak argument. Which is why your main supporter is Harry Forever. You essentially want to make a change which would make a whole portion of EVE too costly to bother using. All so you can get a couple of structure kills on your killboard because you're upset at losing 2 ships this month. You want a target that doesn't shoot back.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#389 - 2013-08-30 10:30:04 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
...We have an enormous amount of nullbear tears over isk generation in highsec missions despite those nullbears not running them. Likewise I would like to see null become more dangerous and less easy mode...
We??? I have a PvE toon that runs L-4s... am I part of the we?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#390 - 2013-08-30 10:31:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Infinity Ziona wrote:

I'll let you in on a little secret - just because one doesn't participate in certain activities in EvE Online doesn't mean one can't have an opinion on aspects of those activities.
You can certainly have an opinion, it's about the only thing you're entitled to here. However, that doesn't make your opinion valid, especially when it's about things you have little, or no knowledge of.

Quote:
We have an enormous amount of nullbear tears over isk generation in highsec missions despite those nullbears not running them. Likewise I would like to see null become more dangerous and less easy mode.
How do you know nullbears don't mission in highsec? Plenty of nullsec players have alts in highsec, because it's so damn easy to make money there as an individual, through missions, trade and industry, and all of it in a relatively risk free environment. However it doesn't scale well for large entities such as those with sov bills.

Quote:
Therefore despite having ever been in a gang or fleet I have a very strong and justifiable argument regarding the server handholding in sov systems.
How can you have a strong argument about something you have no knowledge of? That's like me saying I have a strong argument regarding the way eBay runs its business, despite having no knowledge or experience of actually running a business.
What you have is an opinion, which is not the same as an argument.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#391 - 2013-08-30 10:33:11 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
You have blinkers on. Either that or you fail at comprehending my words.

I comprehend you perfectly. You want POCOs to have less HP and no reinforcement cycle. You want this because you want small and medium gangs to be able to do structural damage to large nullsec alliances without the certainty of that nullsec alliance forming up for a timer.
But your idea has several flaws, which have been pointed out more than once.
1. Null sec alliances don't make enough from PI over high sec PI to make a POCO worth defending. This change would just result in null sec alliances taking down POCOs and running PI in high sec.
2. This change would affect the income of small to medium corps working out of low sec, WH space and NPC null. They too would be likely to pull down POCOs and run PI from high sec.
3. Anyone relying on PI to build fuel for their POS would now need to ship fuel from high sec. This would particularly affect WH corps.

Overall your idea would provide you with only short term gains, but would affect anyone running PI outside of high sec long term.

1. If you can't defend it nor afford to lose it don't anchor it except in systems where you can defend it.
2. Small to medium corporations already get facestomped as do their POCO's. A 24 hour timer on a small to medium corporation is unlikely to be defended by a small to medium corporation if the attacker is greater. A 24 hour timer makes no difference. In any case no one is suggesting reinforcement timers be removed, nor that that HP be reduced. There has been no suggestion of any changes being made. Only an observation that the current system is flawed.
3. Booo fugging hooo. If you can't manage to defend your assets and have to import fuel bad luck. EvE is not supposed to be easy or fair.


It's like you don;t even read before you post!
1. If it doesn't make enough ISK, it's not worth defending, so WE SIMPLY WOULDN'T USE THEM. So you would still have nothing to shoot at. I'm not saying we would be sad because they would be hard to defend, they just would not be worth the isk investment and they'd become an unused feature.
2. Small to medium corps don't normally have to worry about huge alliances wandering in and stomping a POCO. We simply don't care enough about taking away a tiny fraction of income to stomp on them.
3. How about boo fugging hoo, if you can't kill a POCO solo then bad luck. EvE is not supposed to be easy or fair.

You need to work on your ability to respond to posts on the forum. You're simply going around in circles getting nowhere and avoiding the topic.

The fairer solution would be to leave assets with the same HP as they have at the moment, no reinforcement, but make all the HP armor. That way we can damage it and if you fail at defending, which you obviously appear to be incapable of, then that damage would be permanent and we could eventually pop it. Having to wait 24 hours to get your lazy asses into a massive blob to wtf pwn gangs is hand holding.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#392 - 2013-08-30 10:35:01 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

I'll let you in on a little secret - just because one doesn't participate in certain activities in EvE Online doesn't mean one can't have an opinion on aspects of those activities.
You can certainly have an opinion, it's about the only thing you're entitled to here. However, that doesn't make your opinion valid, especially when it's about things you have little, or no knowledge of.

Quote:
We have an enormous amount of nullbear tears over isk generation in highsec missions despite those nullbears not running them. Likewise I would like to see null become more dangerous and less easy mode.
How do you know nullbears don't mission in highsec? Plenty of nullsec players have alts in highsec, because it's so damn easy to make money there, through missions, trade and industry, and all of it in a relatively risk free environment, policed by instapwn cops.

Quote:
Therefore despite having ever been in a gang or fleet I have a very strong and justifiable argument regarding the server handholding in sov systems.
How can you have a strong argument about something you have no knowledge of? That's like me saying I have a strong argument regarding the way eBay runs its business, despite having no knowledge or experience of actually running a business.
What you have is an opinion, which is not the same as an argument.

What specifically have I said about null sec or its mechanics that is incorrect? Please point it out?

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#393 - 2013-08-30 10:35:42 UTC
dear stupids

nullseccers have been asking for small gang targets, farms and fields and disruptable nullsec income for years

unfortunately the shrieking highsec monkey posters are against anything that'd make nullsec worth living in to make any of these work properly and any almost-decent discussion on the topic is ruined by said sub-humans

your own selfish ideas are bad and you've been told why they're bad by your betters

and the responses i see are BUT I WANT IT and the ad hominem YOU JUST DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO DEFEND YOUR STUFF

stop posting, love benny
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#394 - 2013-08-30 10:37:02 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
...That way we can damage it...
We?? Didn't you say, "I solo exclusively".
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#395 - 2013-08-30 10:39:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
Nullbear: ****! my hauler was shotdown by harry forever!
Crazy nullbera: oh ****! you are doomed!
Nullbear: but why? what should i do?!
Crzay nullbear: **** man, just trash him with your tengu!
Nullbear: hell yea! *undocking*
Crazy nullbear: did you get him?!
Nullbear: what the ****? alone??
Crazy nullbear: oh **** you are right! *calling friends*

2 hours later

Nullbear: **** man! where is he?
Crazy nullbear: ******* afk cloaker!

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#396 - 2013-08-30 10:39:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Infinity Ziona wrote:

What specifically have I said about null sec or its mechanics that is incorrect? Please point it out?

You really expect me to trawl through all your posts to simply repeat what other posters have already pointed out to you? Dream on.

You also forgot to answer any of the questions I posed in the post you quoted, is there a reason why? NB: They haven't already been answered, unlike your own

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#397 - 2013-08-30 10:40:15 UTC
Trii Seo wrote:
You know, most of those "nullbears" would be more like "Oh hell yeah, x for MURDER!" but it's funny how you cry. Amusing.

Now, it's worth noting that there's a lot of trash drifting in nullsec space:

- Dramiels/lone 'ceptors. Damn fast to catch, best baited by lone pilots if they feel like killing something. If not? No point forming, they'll just outrun you.
- Ghost T3s. Going after a cloaky/nulli T3 is like chasing a ghost. Their pilots are often too paranoid to pick on a pvp target in fear of a gang/drop so it's not worth the effort.
- Other cloakies. If it's a bomber, it won't fight. If it's a recon, 80% of the time it's a drop.
- As of late, T1 explorer frigates. Just take a Sabre and go gatecamping, scavenge the scavengers for extra irony points.

Thing about trash is nobody actually bothers taking it out, since it's not fun. Two ways to deal with it is blob it and make it die without even a chance to fight back, or leave it to get bored. Both increase a chance of it not coming back, getting a hostile out of your system - accomplishes the objective.

Plus, there's a difference between "fight" and "murder", and it's pretty significant - you can lose a fight, you can't lose a murder. We prefer the latter, one outcome and a lot of fun to do.

You're not helping your argument by supporting mine...

You outlined exactly my point and why I think the system is flawed.

Solo pilot, small gang, even medium gang... oh well, just trash, they can't hurt any of our stuff, lets just dock, or leave, or just ignore them...

Thank you.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#398 - 2013-08-30 10:41:15 UTC
nullsec defence should be conducted by a series of honorable 1v1s vs the invaders NO BLOBBING
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#399 - 2013-08-30 10:43:08 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

What specifically have I said about null sec or its mechanics that is incorrect? Please point it out?

You really expect me to trawl through all your posts to simply repeat what other posters have already pointed out to you? Dream on.

No, you stated I don't know what I'm talking about. I asked you in what way... are you saying that I don't know what I'm talking about but you don't know what I'm talking about either... how do you come to a conclusion someone doesn't know what they're talking about if you don't even know what they're saying? Are you psychic?

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#400 - 2013-08-30 10:45:25 UTC
It's just a recent trend of hisec people discovering pvp and slowly getting their feet wet in the whole "no targets" bitterness.

That subject is a dead horse that's been flogged to the point it's a jelly-like wobbling mass with none of its characteristics remaining remotely horselike. There's no incentive to risk it, no reward to make you think "oh crap, a neutral/red scout in local. But I must remain in this easily-targetable place in my faction fit Tengu! I must get a shot at the billion ISK jackpot module or the anomaly will despawn!"

Risk vs. Reward is skewered and CCP should take a looong look before fixing it in a haphazard way, since in doing so they might do more harm than good. A good, big rebalance of PvE is needed.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph