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So this is it for eve, is this the future, is it?

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Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#301 - 2013-08-29 15:39:33 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Who wants to actually fight when you can shoot structures and run away

:smugdog: paging Lyris Nairn


The thing is shooting and running away actually does work if you keep doing it because eventually the owners will mess up or timers will coincide and you'll get a free run at destroying the structure. Unfortunately thats too much effort for someone who's thought process goes "me no like man, want make bad man thing go boom".
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#302 - 2013-08-29 15:58:17 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Who wants to actually fight when you can shoot structures and run away

:smugdog: paging Lyris Nairn

You're assuming we want to fight you. We don't. We want to gank you when you least expect, blow up your shite and then run away so we can gank you again later and then blow up more of your shite.

If I wanted to duel people on even terms I would have rolled a Paladin in WoW.


CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#303 - 2013-08-29 16:03:16 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Who wants to actually fight when you can shoot structures and run away

:smugdog: paging Lyris Nairn

You're assuming we want to fight you. We don't. We want to gank you when you least expect, blow up your shite and then run away so we can gank you again later and then blow up more of your shite.

If I wanted to duel people on even terms I would have rolled a Paladin in WoW.

We're not assuming that at all. We've quite clearly said that's what you want to do. We just don't think we should ruin the balance for everyone else just to make it easier for you.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#304 - 2013-08-29 16:13:05 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Who wants to actually fight when you can shoot structures and run away

:smugdog: paging Lyris Nairn

You're assuming we want to fight you. We don't. We want to gank you when you least expect, blow up your shite and then run away so we can gank you again later and then blow up more of your shite.

If I wanted to duel people on even terms I would have rolled a Paladin in WoW.

We're not assuming that at all. We've quite clearly said that's what you want to do. We just don't think we should ruin the balance for everyone else just to make it easier for you.

What balance? The requirement to bring 10 ships and spend 3 hours to put a 100m isk module into reinforced mode so someone can not do PI for a day? That's ludicrous imbalanced.

You want CCP to hold your hand so you can as you say "go do something more useful than defend your own space".

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#305 - 2013-08-29 16:20:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Who wants to actually fight when you can shoot structures and run away

:smugdog: paging Lyris Nairn

You're assuming we want to fight you. We don't. We want to gank you when you least expect, blow up your shite and then run away so we can gank you again later and then blow up more of your shite.

If I wanted to duel people on even terms I would have rolled a Paladin in WoW.

We're not assuming that at all. We've quite clearly said that's what you want to do. We just don't think we should ruin the balance for everyone else just to make it easier for you.

What balance? The requirement to bring 10 ships and spend 3 hours to put a 100m isk module into reinforced mode so someone can not do PI for a day? That's ludicrous imbalanced.

You want CCP to hold your hand so you can as you say "go do something more useful than defend your own space".


10 ships = 15 mins. Did you forget to read that one. If 10 ships take you 3 hours, then your ships are only putting out 69.5 DPS.

And no, again you seem to fail to read the point. Here goes again, as simply as is possible:
If every POCO had to be guarded all the time to make sure it stayed alive, PI profit would be less than profit from those same defenders simply ratting for a little while. THUS: If POCOs are made easier to kill, null sec PI will simply stop, and we will just do PI in high sec.
All of our PI is done by alts anyway, so they can do that anywhere.

I really don't know how that can be put any simpler. It's half simple math, and half simple economics. But if you still don't get it, and you still don't understand how 7.5m hp will take 10 people with ~800 dps 15 minutes to go through, then you have no hope of ever understanding.

EDIT: TBH, after running the numbers, I'm considering going and blowing up a few POCOs myself. Just for the giggles.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#306 - 2013-08-29 16:40:31 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Who wants to actually fight when you can shoot structures and run away

:smugdog: paging Lyris Nairn

You're assuming we want to fight you. We don't. We want to gank you when you least expect, blow up your shite and then run away so we can gank you again later and then blow up more of your shite.

If I wanted to duel people on even terms I would have rolled a Paladin in WoW.

We're not assuming that at all. We've quite clearly said that's what you want to do. We just don't think we should ruin the balance for everyone else just to make it easier for you.

What balance? The requirement to bring 10 ships and spend 3 hours to put a 100m isk module into reinforced mode so someone can not do PI for a day? That's ludicrous imbalanced.

You want CCP to hold your hand so you can as you say "go do something more useful than defend your own space".


10 ships = 15 mins. Did you forget to read that one. If 10 ships take you 3 hours, then your ships are only putting out 69.5 DPS.

And no, again you seem to fail to read the point. Here goes again, as simply as is possible:
If every POCO had to be guarded all the time to make sure it stayed alive, PI profit would be less than profit from those same defenders simply ratting for a little while. THUS: If POCOs are made easier to kill, null sec PI will simply stop, and we will just do PI in high sec.
All of our PI is done by alts anyway, so they can do that anywhere.

I really don't know how that can be put any simpler. It's half simple math, and half simple economics. But if you still don't get it, and you still don't understand how 7.5m hp will take 10 people with ~800 dps 15 minutes to go through, then you have no hope of ever understanding.

EDIT: TBH, after running the numbers, I'm considering going and blowing up a few POCOs myself. Just for the giggles.

10 ships = 15 minutes + 24 hours to destroy a POCO.

I think it highly amusing you don't get what I'm saying. I think you actually do but you're trying to justify wanting CCP to protect your assets rather than you doing it.

The most ironic thing about this whole thread, is you and a bunch of Goons trying to justify why their 100m isk POCO shouldn't be allowed to be ganked by a small to medium gang when the Goons, and most of EvE are totally cool with gankiing billion isk freighters in highsec.

So I'll borrow a little off them and suggest that if you can't afford to lose it, don't anchor it. Don't expect CCP to hand hold you. Null sec is not supposed to be safe, for you or your POCO.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#307 - 2013-08-29 16:47:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhes
Infinity Ziona wrote:
a bunch of Goons trying to justify why their 100m isk POCO shouldn't be allowed to be ganked by a small to medium gang


Absolutely nobody is arguing this. There is nothing stopping you from bringing a small gang to our space and killing POCOs...you just have to put some time into it. Kind of like the time we put into conquering and maintaining the space.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#308 - 2013-08-29 16:52:20 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
a bunch of Goons trying to justify why their 100m isk POCO shouldn't be allowed to be ganked by a small to medium gang


Absolutely nobody is arguing this. There is nothing stopping you from bringing a small gang to our space and killing POCOs...you just have to put some time into it. Kind of like the time we put into conquering and maintaining the space.

Cool so I guess after we put them into reinforced mode, we'll just sit around and have tea with you guys and then blow them up when they come out? You can help us with the remaining 25%?

Yeah... I don't see that happening. They're essentially indestructible.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#309 - 2013-08-29 16:54:17 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
a bunch of Goons trying to justify why their 100m isk POCO shouldn't be allowed to be ganked by a small to medium gang


Absolutely nobody is arguing this. There is nothing stopping you from bringing a small gang to our space and killing POCOs...you just have to put some time into it. Kind of like the time we put into conquering and maintaining the space.

Cool so I guess after we put them into reinforced mode, we'll just sit around and have tea with you guys and then blow them up when they come out? You can help us with the remaining 25%?

Yeah... I don't see that happening. They're essentially indestructible.


No, you come back when they are out of reinforcement to prevent us from repping them and then finish the job. If you want to be an agent of change in nullsec you have to put in the effort.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#310 - 2013-08-29 16:59:28 UTC
Or you and Harry can fly through in some stab bombers and blow up some cyno ships. Hardly any effort required.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#311 - 2013-08-29 17:02:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
a bunch of Goons trying to justify why their 100m isk POCO shouldn't be allowed to be ganked by a small to medium gang


Absolutely nobody is arguing this. There is nothing stopping you from bringing a small gang to our space and killing POCOs...you just have to put some time into it. Kind of like the time we put into conquering and maintaining the space.

Cool so I guess after we put them into reinforced mode, we'll just sit around and have tea with you guys and then blow them up when they come out? You can help us with the remaining 25%?

Yeah... I don't see that happening. They're essentially indestructible.

So you're telling the guy that he should not ask CCP to make his poco safe for him, while at the same time telling ccp to make things easier for you? Nope, no double standard there at all.

It's no different than when you suggest ccp should make deep null logistics easier for you despite the fact that you proved that raiding deep null is possible with a little effort (would have been less effort if you'd planned better or cooperated with someone, but still.....). You tend to see only those things that benefit you, which is fine but you should look down on people for doing the same thing (like you accused the Goon).
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#312 - 2013-08-29 17:05:08 UTC
Maybe he doesn't understand how reinforcement mechanics work. It's confusing for a lot of high sec pubbies.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#313 - 2013-08-29 17:16:57 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
a bunch of Goons trying to justify why their 100m isk POCO shouldn't be allowed to be ganked by a small to medium gang


Absolutely nobody is arguing this. There is nothing stopping you from bringing a small gang to our space and killing POCOs...you just have to put some time into it. Kind of like the time we put into conquering and maintaining the space.

Cool so I guess after we put them into reinforced mode, we'll just sit around and have tea with you guys and then blow them up when they come out? You can help us with the remaining 25%?

Yeah... I don't see that happening. They're essentially indestructible.


No, you come back when they are out of reinforcement to prevent us from repping them and then finish the job. If you want to be an agent of change in nullsec you have to put in the effort.

I'm not an agent of change. I want to blow your lame POCO's up without being required to wait for 24 hours and have a blob waiting because they got warned.

Perhaps they should give your freighter gank targets a 24 hour reinforcement timer too? If your stupid POCO has one I don't see why freighters can't. Sure to make you all unsub in null bear protest though I think :)

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#314 - 2013-08-29 17:26:41 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I want to blow your lame POCO's up without being required to wait for 24 hours and have a blob waiting because they got warned.


Just stick to ganking ratters and cyno ships. Hardly any waiting and zero effort. Have fun in nullsec!

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#315 - 2013-08-29 17:27:50 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Perhaps they should give your freighter gank targets a 24 hour reinforcement timer too? If your stupid POCO has one I don't see why freighters can't. Sure to make you all unsub in null bear protest though I think :)


If they make the freighter immobile while it's in reinforcement I'd have no problem with that.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#316 - 2013-08-29 17:28:04 UTC
if you want all content available to the solo player with little effort

i suggest you play a different game

singleplayer games often have cheat codes for god mode, you'll love those
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#317 - 2013-08-29 17:34:35 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Perhaps they should give your freighter gank targets a 24 hour reinforcement timer too? If your stupid POCO has one I don't see why freighters can't. Sure to make you all unsub in null bear protest though I think :)


A freighter has a pilot who can defend it by not being stupid. A POCO is required by game mechanics to be in space even when it is not being used. I could get behind replacing POCOs with a special ship that you fly to a planet to offload your PI goods but you're not going to get to blow up those for free either so I guess thats a no go too.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#318 - 2013-08-29 17:42:27 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I want to blow your lame POCO's up without being required to wait for 24 hours and have a blob waiting because they got warned.


Just stick to ganking ratters and cyno ships. Hardly any waiting and zero effort. Have fun in nullsec!

I'll kill whatever I like - except your precious POCO... now go do some PI yeah

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#319 - 2013-08-29 17:42:39 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
a bunch of Goons trying to justify why their 100m isk POCO shouldn't be allowed to be ganked by a small to medium gang


Absolutely nobody is arguing this. There is nothing stopping you from bringing a small gang to our space and killing POCOs...you just have to put some time into it. Kind of like the time we put into conquering and maintaining the space.

Cool so I guess after we put them into reinforced mode, we'll just sit around and have tea with you guys and then blow them up when they come out? You can help us with the remaining 25%?

Yeah... I don't see that happening. They're essentially indestructible.


No, you come back when they are out of reinforcement to prevent us from repping them and then finish the job. If you want to be an agent of change in nullsec you have to put in the effort.

I'm not an agent of change. I want to blow your lame POCO's up without being required to wait for 24 hours and have a blob waiting because they got warned.

Perhaps they should give your freighter gank targets a 24 hour reinforcement timer too? If your stupid POCO has one I don't see why freighters can't. Sure to make you all unsub in null bear protest though I think :)


+1 for freighter reinforcement timer! It would be so cool to see 100 frieghters 12 km from the Niarja gate (because they were autopiltiing) in reinforced more. and thousands of Goons sitting there in tornados and thrashers just waiting lol.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#320 - 2013-08-29 21:53:28 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
10 ships = 15 minutes + 24 hours to destroy a POCO.

I think it highly amusing you don't get what I'm saying. I think you actually do but you're trying to justify wanting CCP to protect your assets rather than you doing it.

The most ironic thing about this whole thread, is you and a bunch of Goons trying to justify why their 100m isk POCO shouldn't be allowed to be ganked by a small to medium gang when the Goons, and most of EvE are totally cool with gankiing billion isk freighters in highsec.

So I'll borrow a little off them and suggest that if you can't afford to lose it, don't anchor it. Don't expect CCP to hand hold you. Null sec is not supposed to be safe, for you or your POCO.

You said quite clearly:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
The requirement to bring 10 ships and spend 3 hours to put a 100m isk module into reinforced mode so someone can not do PI for a day? That's ludicrous imbalanced.

Yet now you add reinforced mode. You as a small group can disrupt a POCO for 24 hours with very little time investment. No structure should be able to be completely destroyed in a single session as that would just mean everyone runs around when their enemy is offline destroying everything. That wouldn't be fun for anyone.

The short of it is, you want to kill our stuff, but you don;t want to put the effort in. At the same time, you think we should have to put whole groups of pilots on 24 hour standby to guard every POCO. It's stupid and you bloody well know it is.

You've been playing the game long enough to not be this stupid, so stop sitting around crying and play the fuckin game.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.