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So this is it for eve, is this the future, is it?

First post
Author
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#241 - 2013-08-29 11:33:30 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Yeep wrote:
Sure you can. Bring a dread or a supercap in and attack one of the many targets the guy you quoted mentioned. Bring a battleship and shoot at them, it'll take longer but you'll get there in the end.

So, how long would you say is a reasonable amount of time for 1 person to be able to take down 1 structure that 1 other person put up?

Lucas Kell wrote:
Yeah, structures generally can't be killed solo.


Then, why can they be deployed solo? Why can they be maintained solo?

I know you're going to say, "But, the whole corporation/alliance/coalition deploys and maintains the structure." No they [expletive deleted] don't, or else there would be no need for "Invulnerable" and "Reinforced".

You just argue for the sake of arguing. You honestly can't be stupid enough to think that it would be a good change to make a POS more easily damaged. It would in no way help the little guy, it would simply mean that solo roamers could get a bunch of structures into reinforce. Structures are designed to not get destroyed too quickly. If they were like blapping a frigate, they'd be pointless.

Personally I think it's fine as it is. It takes a not too excessive a time to take down a POS and as I've already stated, some stuff in MMOs you simply can't do alone.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#242 - 2013-08-29 11:37:14 UTC
Yeep wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Yeah we're talking about objects, some which only cost around 100 million isk (POCO), which is 50% less then a Battleship and you need a multi billion isk fleet to kill one. If that's not hand holding I don't know what is.


No, you don't. You only need a multi-billion ISK fleet if you want to destroy them before anyone shows up to defend them.

Exactly. Hand holding. Not prepared to defend them so the system defends them for you till you can bring an overwhelming force to safely deal with the issue. No risk for you.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#243 - 2013-08-29 11:37:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
Lucas Kell wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
nothing is going on out there, I'm pretty sure the average kill per system per hour is below zero, this is nothing for me... you might endup with a thousands because of that, but it does not feel like it, it feels just like 1 kill per hour max... pew nothing pew

There's loads going on out there. Stop saying the same dumbass stuff over and over again. At this point you are just spouting bullshit in an attempt to troll.
Of course there are completely empty systems that will bring it down, but your argument is you can't find ANY kills, and we are telling you to look in the right places. 1DH-SX in Delve for example has had 265 kills in the past 24 hours, that's 11 per hour. PR-8CA has had 221 in 24 hours, that's 9.2/hour. 319-3D has had 124, that's 5.1/hour.
Considering 1DH and PR-8 are next door to each other and 319 is 3 jumps away, it would seem to me that there's plenty going on there, and that's the place to go.
Here's a list of other places you might find people fighting:
WD-VTV (Catch)
TG-Z23 (Stain)
Y-MPWL (Providence)
KFIE-Z (Delve)
4-EP12 (Fountain)
6-CZ49 (Syndicate)
NRT4-U (Stain)


I searched the whole map, for sure hundreds of jumps in the last weeks, if there is a spot where a fight is on the map, you might go there but its over before you arrive... this **** happens day by day, so you endup camping a gate like all the other players out there, you wait for 1-2 hours, I did wait even longer, thats the only way to get a kill... you might join a corp and beg to god they start a war once a year, however as there is a maximum of 1 fight per day in nullsec, it would be like a loto jackpot to choose the right corp to assure you get into that fight

you also missunderstand that those fights are not spread over the whole day, you would need to hit the right time when those fights are happening, they take place in 1-2 hours each day, you never find one, its impossible because the map shows the fights delayed, its ****

this game would be cool if every 5-10 jumps there are fights, but therefore more corps would need to fight but all of you prefer to be friends instead
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#244 - 2013-08-29 11:37:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Moneta Curran
Harry Forever wrote:
nuking towers solo, we finally getting there... I would have solo killed mittanigrad 3 month ago, because you people just take sov, and then logout


Sure you would have, Harry, sure you would. Maybe it's time for mommy to put you to bed?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#245 - 2013-08-29 11:37:37 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Yeep wrote:
Sure you can. Bring a dread or a supercap in and attack one of the many targets the guy you quoted mentioned. Bring a battleship and shoot at them, it'll take longer but you'll get there in the end.

So, how long would you say is a reasonable amount of time for 1 person to be able to take down 1 structure that 1 other person put up?

Lucas Kell wrote:
Yeah, structures generally can't be killed solo.


Then, why can they be deployed solo? Why can they be maintained solo?

I know you're going to say, "But, the whole corporation/alliance/coalition deploys and maintains the structure." No they [expletive deleted] don't, or else there would be no need for "Invulnerable" and "Reinforced".

Yeah we're talking about objects, some which only cost around 100 million isk (POCO), which is 50% less then a Battleship and you need a multi billion isk fleet to kill one. If that's not hand holding I don't know what is.

It's called balance you moron. To a huge alliance, the time it takes to drop a POS is nothing. It would barely affect us if it was made easier. A 10 man WH corp with all of their assets in a POS however probably doesn't want their POS soloable. Structures are balanced to be strong enough to withstand a random pleb shooting them, but fragile enough that 40 torpedo bombers can grind through a resist boosted large tower in a relatively short amount of time.
I don't even get why you are arguing. Do you really want structure kills on your KB that badly?

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#246 - 2013-08-29 11:42:30 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
however as there is a maximum of 1 fight per day in nullsec, it would be like a loto jackpot to choose the right corp to assure you get into that fight
Have you tried actually looking at the map? Again, if you're going to make stuff up, why do you choose something that is so trivially easy to disprove?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#247 - 2013-08-29 11:45:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Lucas Kell wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Yeep wrote:
Sure you can. Bring a dread or a supercap in and attack one of the many targets the guy you quoted mentioned. Bring a battleship and shoot at them, it'll take longer but you'll get there in the end.

So, how long would you say is a reasonable amount of time for 1 person to be able to take down 1 structure that 1 other person put up?

Lucas Kell wrote:
Yeah, structures generally can't be killed solo.


Then, why can they be deployed solo? Why can they be maintained solo?

I know you're going to say, "But, the whole corporation/alliance/coalition deploys and maintains the structure." No they [expletive deleted] don't, or else there would be no need for "Invulnerable" and "Reinforced".

Yeah we're talking about objects, some which only cost around 100 million isk (POCO), which is 50% less then a Battleship and you need a multi billion isk fleet to kill one. If that's not hand holding I don't know what is.

It's called balance you moron. To a huge alliance, the time it takes to drop a POS is nothing. It would barely affect us if it was made easier. A 10 man WH corp with all of their assets in a POS however probably doesn't want their POS soloable. Structures are balanced to be strong enough to withstand a random pleb shooting them, but fragile enough that 40 torpedo bombers can grind through a resist boosted large tower in a relatively short amount of time.
I don't even get why you are arguing. Do you really want structure kills on your KB that badly?

Oh now we're seeing what I'm saying and getting upset and personal. Been here for 10 years and I don't take anything personally nor get angry at insults so you can simply not bother or continue as it doesn't bother me and clearly what I'm saying must bother you :)

I would point out that I am not talking about POS, POS are needed to be in reinforced, have many HP simply because they house very expensive assets. Clearly, since I specifically pointed out POCO's as being 100 million and requiring huge amounts of time or a multi billion isk fleet I was not talking about POS.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#248 - 2013-08-29 11:46:10 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Yeep wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Yeah we're talking about objects, some which only cost around 100 million isk (POCO), which is 50% less then a Battleship and you need a multi billion isk fleet to kill one. If that's not hand holding I don't know what is.


No, you don't. You only need a multi-billion ISK fleet if you want to destroy them before anyone shows up to defend them.

Exactly. Hand holding. Not prepared to defend them so the system defends them for you till you can bring an overwhelming force to safely deal with the issue. No risk for you.


Showing up with a fleet before the structure is destroyed IS defending it. If a solo pilot could destroy a structure before enough defenders (lets say 2 people, although 1 in a superior ship would do) arrived nobody would ever deploy them. Do you really expect an alliance to keep one pilot sat at each structure they deploy 24/7/365 just in case someone feels like throwing a missile at it?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#249 - 2013-08-29 11:48:25 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
I searched the whole map, for sure hundreds of jumps in the last week, if not thousands, if there is a spot where a fight is on the map, you might go there but its over before you arrive... this **** happens day by day, so you endup camping a gate like all the other players out there, you wait for 1-2 hours, I did wait even longer, thats the only way to get a kill... you might join a corp and beg to god they start a war once a year, however as there is a maximum of 1 fight per day in nullsec, it would be like a loto jackpot to choose the right corp to assure you get into that fight

you also missunderstand that those fights are not spread over the whole day, you would need to hit the right time when those fights are happening, they take place in 1-2 hours each day, you never find one, its impossible because the map shows the fights delayed, its ****

ok, you don't seem to be getting it, so I'll say it as clearly as possible.
GO TO 1DH-SX.

Here, I'll even give you breakdown of kill by hour so you can see the hot spots:
10:00 5
09:00 2
08:00 2
07:00 0
06:00 0
05:00 7
04:00 7
03:00 18
02:00 12
01:00 7
00:00 6
23:00 9
22:00 15
21:00 4
20:00 4
19:00 57
18:00 22
17:00 6
16:00 8
15:00 5
14:00 4

If you are too ******** to find kills in a warzone, then quitting EVE might not be enough.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#250 - 2013-08-29 11:53:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Yeep wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Yeep wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Yeah we're talking about objects, some which only cost around 100 million isk (POCO), which is 50% less then a Battleship and you need a multi billion isk fleet to kill one. If that's not hand holding I don't know what is.


No, you don't. You only need a multi-billion ISK fleet if you want to destroy them before anyone shows up to defend them.

Exactly. Hand holding. Not prepared to defend them so the system defends them for you till you can bring an overwhelming force to safely deal with the issue. No risk for you.


Showing up with a fleet before the structure is destroyed IS defending it. If a solo pilot could destroy a structure before enough defenders (lets say 2 people, although 1 in a superior ship would do) arrived nobody would ever deploy them. Do you really expect an alliance to keep one pilot sat at each structure they deploy 24/7/365 just in case someone feels like throwing a missile at it?

We're not talking about solo, we're talking small to med gang.

Likely use more ammo worth on it then a POCO is worth.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#251 - 2013-08-29 11:57:54 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

We're not talking about solo, we're talking small to med gang.


Thats even worse. Now you expect an alliance to station a small gang on every structure they own.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#252 - 2013-08-29 11:59:22 UTC
Yeep wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

We're not talking about solo, we're talking small to med gang.


Thats even worse. Now you expect an alliance to station a small gang on every structure they own.

No I expect alliance assets abandoned in systems be destroyable. You should be defending, not the server.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#253 - 2013-08-29 12:00:16 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Oh now we're seeing what I'm saying and getting upset and personal. Been here for 10 years and I don't take anything personally nor get angry at insults so you can simply not bother or continue as it doesn't bother me and clearly what I'm saying must bother you :)

I would point out that I am not talking about POS, POS are needed to be in reinforced, have many HP simply because they house very expensive assets. Clearly, since I specifically pointed out POCO's as being 100 million and requiring huge amounts of time or a multi billion isk fleet I was not talking about POS.

I apologise, I didn't mean to insult you. I didn't say you are a moron as an insult. I said it because based on the thing you say, I legitimately think you are a moron.
POCOs have no turrets, no ability to augment their defense and have about as much HP as a small tower (they have ~15m hp, not 100m). I think that's weak enough, and again I think WH folk might not be best pleased with the idea of reducing their defense. I couldn't care less, as PI is only a fragment of my income. Half the time I forget to reset it.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#254 - 2013-08-29 12:01:19 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
No I expect alliance assets abandoned in systems be destroyable. You should be defending, not the server.

The server isn't defending outside of highsec, and even then, that defence has a deliberate mechanism for circumventing it called wardecs.
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#255 - 2013-08-29 12:07:43 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
You honestly can't be stupid enough to think that it would be a good change to make a POS more easily damaged. It would in no way help the little guy, it would simply mean that solo roamers could get a bunch of structures into reinforce. Structures are designed to not get destroyed too quickly.
...
I've already stated, some stuff in MMOs you simply can't do alone.


Oh, I see. Lucas Kell, advocate for and defender of "the little guy". Is that why you've been running around on your alt(s) ganking noob mining barges? Are they somehow hurting "the little guy"? Are their Retreivers and Mackinaws a threat to "the little guy"? GTFOOH

Tell me what "little guy" has a POS up in the heart of sovereign null sec. Tell me what "little guy" built Mittaningrad. Tell me why this "little guy" needs to be able to repel all of the firepower in the entire galaxy for almost TWO DAYS, and tell me what he's going to do against that firepower once the reinforcement timer is up on his small tower.

Some stuff you can't do alone. Some stuff you SHOULDN'T BE ABLE to do alone, like hold multiple systems hostage for days without any effort or input on your part when there is a determined force working against you.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#256 - 2013-08-29 12:09:08 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
No I expect alliance assets abandoned in systems be destroyable. You should be defending, not the server.

The server isn't defending outside of highsec, and even then, that defence has a deliberate mechanism for circumventing it called wardecs.

The server is most definitely defending your assets. In history, many conglomerates, empires, coalitions have over extended and made themselves vulnerable to guerrilla warfare and raids on their assets. Having a vast empire opens one up to having ones assets raided.

However in EvE this can't occur, everything, even a 100 million isk customs office, has 10's of millions of HP's, goes into reinforced, removing any chance that an alliance needs to organize itself to defend. A small group needs to risk billions and spend hours to blow up something worth less then a battleship.

All the excuses in the world, oh we have to sleep, we'll have no one on to fight or why should we have people in our systems to defend when we could be care-bearing somewhere else blah blah blah is all just sad lazy nullbear excuses for CCP's wiping your litlte arses and holding your willies to take a pee.

I'm embarrassed you're all defending it.



CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#257 - 2013-08-29 12:19:57 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
The server is most definitely defending your assets. In history, many conglomerates, empires, coalitions have over extended and made themselves vulnerable to guerrilla warfare and raids on their assets. Having a vast empire opens one up to having ones assets raided.

However in EvE this can't occur, everything, even a 100 million isk customs office, has 10's of millions of HP's, goes into reinforced, removing any chance that an alliance needs to organize itself to defend. A small group needs to risk billions and spend hours to blow up something worth less then a battleship.

All the excuses in the world, oh we have to sleep, we'll have no one on to fight or why should we have people in our systems to defend when we could be care-bearing somewhere else blah blah blah is all just sad lazy nullbear excuses for CCP's wiping your litlte arses and holding your willies to take a pee.

I'm embarrassed you're all defending it.
Through what evidence or reasoning did you arrive at that conclusion?
Would it be possible for any counterevidence or counterargument to sway you?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#258 - 2013-08-29 12:25:39 UTC
Alphea Abbra wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
The server is most definitely defending your assets. In history, many conglomerates, empires, coalitions have over extended and made themselves vulnerable to guerrilla warfare and raids on their assets. Having a vast empire opens one up to having ones assets raided.

However in EvE this can't occur, everything, even a 100 million isk customs office, has 10's of millions of HP's, goes into reinforced, removing any chance that an alliance needs to organize itself to defend. A small group needs to risk billions and spend hours to blow up something worth less then a battleship.

All the excuses in the world, oh we have to sleep, we'll have no one on to fight or why should we have people in our systems to defend when we could be care-bearing somewhere else blah blah blah is all just sad lazy nullbear excuses for CCP's wiping your litlte arses and holding your willies to take a pee.

I'm embarrassed you're all defending it.
Through what evidence or reasoning did you arrive at that conclusion?
Would it be possible for any counterevidence or counterargument to sway you?

Show me a customs office that doesn't have 10 million shield, 500,000 armor and I might be swayed.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#259 - 2013-08-29 12:30:17 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
...A small group needs to risk billions and spend hours to blow up something worth less then a battleship...

I'm embarrassed you're all defending it.
I am puzzled why you think POCOs are an issue? Do you believe that the major alliances somehow make lots of money off PI?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#260 - 2013-08-29 12:37:02 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
...A small group needs to risk billions and spend hours to blow up something worth less then a battleship...

I'm embarrassed you're all defending it.
I am puzzled why you think POCOs are an issue? Do you believe that the major alliances somehow make lots of money off PI?

They're not an issue. They're a stark example of a very cheap deploy-able module that are unable to be killed by raiders without disproportionate time and effort and isk being put in to kill them.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)