Crime & Punishment

6) buy a mining permit, see sig for details

7) Reconsider your play style.

Remember that anyone logging on to EVE has already consented to PvP.

Join the New Order in enforcing the Code. If you have a second account for a scout it allows for a very independent style of play. Once logged on you can be out-and-about within minutes and sometimes score within the same time frame. At the least you can have the pleasure of all lightly tanked mining ships docking up or running away. You can also log off at any time (much harder when on a fleet roam through 0.0 or when your fleet mates depend on your logistics ship).
At times where you are looking for a bit more social contact join with a couple of other Agents to bring down the tankier Exhumers. And stay tuned for a fleet form-up to bring down an Orca or freighter.

Best of all, a ganking character can add value to the corp within a week and have near-optimal skills within two months (very fast for EVE) and a scout can start out in a Venture, quickly upgrade to a barge and later to a cov ops. This allows you to independently develop other characters on your account(s) to join in other EVE activities.

Good attitude. Also, for a wall 'o text, that was surprisingly legible. Well done.

You, unlike my victims, learn well. I am the most bottom-feeding of bottom-feeder gankers, and my victims tend to be the poster-children for "not fit to be a miner." Which is a very sad level of sad, indeed.

The behaviors you're citing would serve you well in any system I haunt. You need to learn a bit more about ganker strategies, so you don't fall prey to the tricks, but you've got a solid basis from which to work. In support of that, I suggest you fire up an alt, and train Gallente Destroyers, Gunnery, Blasters, and Weapons Upgrades. Join in on the ganking, even if it's not your preference - You'll learn a lot about the tricks and techniques, which will serve you well in learning how to not be a victim.

And in the process, you'll not be wasting an alt - It takes relatively little time to get up to solo-gank skill level, and you can then either park the alt, or repurpose it to some other end - Scout, maybe?

Meanwhile, you *have* appeared to have found your niche, so I'd stick to that most of the time.



1) Paranoia is always good in EVE. If your mining system is being haunted by an active ganker, go elsewhere, or do something different - maybe on another alt. Don't go overboard on paranoia though, 'cause then you'll miss out on the social aspect, which is nice part of the game. I chat with my victims - and my killers - all the time. Most are nice enough folks, and so long as you don't rage or whine, most are perfectly happy to talk nicely.

2) Higher sec is safer, but not safe. Yields are also less. LoSec is moderately dangerous, but lower-end HiSec (0.6 and 0.5) should be survivable if you use due care. And I see some pretty large rocks there.

3) Tanking up is my favored advice - it's easy to do. You don't even need to await the Skiff; A Procurer can tanke well enough to deter all but the most determined gankers. Sure, you sacrifice hold capacity, and a bit of yeild, but what's more annoying - hauling ore, or replacing a barge?

4) All manner of corps exist - My main is in a corp where you can pretty much do as you please, when you please - It mostly exists to allow a bunch of like-minded free-spirits to set up and hold a tower in W-Space. Think 'Communal flop-house for neck-bearded anarchists.' Everyone puts a little into the collection jar and in return, they get a secure refuge.

5) Don't. You've found what you like, you just need to learn a few things about survival.

6) Accept the inevitable, and plan for it. When my main mined, and when I dust off my miner alt, I plan(ed) the cost of lost hulls into the profit-loss sheet. I put together the absolute cheapest hulls I could that would at the same time return a reasonable yield, figured out how often I could afford to lose a hull whilst still turning a profit, and set that as my break-even line. I keep (kept) track, and found that I was actually losing far fewer hulls than I could afford to lose.

IOW, I was doing fairly well. It seems to me that you should be, as well - two losses in a couple months? Unless you're seriously pimping out your hulls, you should be doing OK.

7) Try setting up a logi-alt, and remote-rep your barge. That'll mess with the ganker's minds. It's hardly eveer done, that I've seen, in HiSec, so you'll at least have the advantage of novelty going for you. Or train an Orca alt, though that takes a while.

Mind you, Orcas get ganked, too. And they're expensive.

8) Up your drone skill, and train Electronic Warfare and EW Drones. Add some jamming drones (Hornet EC-300s) to your combat drone mix - Gankers have to be able to keep you locked in order to gank you. Won't make you gank-proof, but will make it harder, more rare, and more expensive for a sucessful gank attempt - and all for a relatively modest investment.

First off: Thanks to all who have responded, it's been remarkably constructive.

RE: why not go procurer right now?
Just a coincidence. Soon, I will be going out of town for a while, and when I get back, my final skill needed to fly an Exhumer will be hours from finishing training. Rather than replace my hull right now, I have taken a short break and will probably go directly to an Exhumer hull when I get back.



I know pretty much nothing about the politics of EvE, but I was wondering if there were mid-largish corps with both industrial and PvP wings, control of some section of null/low/W, and relatively forgiving recruiting policy that I could join. Mining in corp controlled space, and selling to a fixed (and slightly discounted) market in order to help on projects like building a titan would be a good fit for me. I'd be paying protection money in the form of materials, and the king/soldiers I supported around me would shoot people who came into corp controlled space. It would be like feudal Europe. It might also give me the chance to try out doing things with other players, as long as they were OK with my unreliable schedule.



I'm fine. There was nothing super fancy in any of them; no rigs, and T1 everything else except T2 strip miners on the second loss. My accounting is not particularly clean on this, but I would guess that they accounted for something like 10-20% of the gross earnings they produced. Insurance on them is total crap, BTW. The best pays something like 5mil on a 25-35mil hull, not including the fit.

So...
Any advice on how to go about finding a corp like what I describe above, or would that be like asking for advice on how to locate the tooth fairy? I'd be OK with paying protection money as long as it actually protected me. The problem with paying the NO folks is that it's not really protection; there seem to be plenty folks out there who gank for entertainment and cannot be bought. Then again, if NO patrolled an area and defended the miners who paid them, 10M/yr would be an unbelievable deal. A flat 5% tax would be high, but less than my current estimated loss rate, and would produce something like 300-400M/yr/miner. Its not ideal for the miner, but neither was feudal Europe.

Failing that, I'll probably Skiff it when I get back, and try to move to somewhere more remote to solo. Thanks for pointing out the ECM drones; I need to get Drone V once I unlock Exhumers, but once I do I will probably work on the skills for the ECM drones.

A few further thoughts from me that I sent by mail to Mythos Majere that I feel are worth posting here.

Hi Mythos.
I have recently read your post from the thread I started a while ago.
Perhaps a few more words of advice and encouragement. I must firstly re-iterate my opening post remarks. EvE is only a game and if you maintain that constant mantra it will help quite a bit. I've never been ganked by suicide pirates in hi-sec but have lost ships and pods over nearly a year of play. You must expect this. Nowhere is safe in EvE. I've been smartbombed and killed just because I was in the wrong place at the wrong time and merely as a bystander to the disgruntled tactics of a player leaving the game for good.
I always make a point of chatting to my killer in a calm and non-confrontational way. I have to say that in ALL cases, I have had a constructive and learning experience from these pilots.
As regards to mining. It is important to find a quiet 0.5/6 system in or near your base of operations. They will generaly give you good yields and if you can't find one, then move your base of operations. This is really important and they can be found, believe me. Checking your locality for a system that is maybe a terminus jump route or a tiny hub (one in, in out) is the way to go. Once you base yourself there, over time you will get to know the locals so that potential intruders will stand out more.
It is important to set your overview uncluttered. When I'm mining, I have four dedicated tabs for asteroids, rats, ships and stations/gates. I constantly keep an eye on the ships tab since the local chat channel may not always reveal a potential enemy. As a further precaution I always keep my escape gate in the middle of my display so that in an emergency I can quickly find it an am happy to leave any drones behind if it means saving the ship and myself.
Another tactic that has been recently useful to me is to develop some good skills to pilot a cruiser (I currently use a combat battlecruiser) and have had chance to 'police' my local when an intruder has flagged himself as a pirate and have been succesful in engaging him.
I hope that this mail has been useful to you. I have found that it is important to be communicative and civil to all players and by and large this will be reciprocated. Fly safe.

You know, it just keeps getting better. This dude is so full of crap its hilarious. (James)

I gotta admit, I read the minerbumping blog. Its like one of those car accidents you can look away from.

Take, for example, this quote, available from minerbumping:

"The New Order is a welcoming bunch. We gain power by inviting people in, not excluding them. This is what distinguishes us from other elite PvP outfits. However, it's still important for new members to make a clean break with their dark past."

James, and this is a question for you... what part about ganking ships with no way to fight back would you consider to be "elite" pvp? What a joke. Blapping a few mining ships is so easy you could AFK for the duration... that is until concord rolls in and ends it. You remind me of kamikazes. Remember how that went for them?

If only CONCORD would pod.....

Riiiight.

What about the lawless station trading, lawless mission running, lawless planetary interaction, and lawless exploration that goes on? GHASP!

You are correct. They are PVPing. Against nobody. Its a one sided fight. So no, there isnt anything elite about it. Ganking a miner and losing your ship is fail/fail. Also, if they are elite, why do they drop corp/reopen when they get a wardec? That doesnt seem very elite to me, either. Player versus Player, yes. Anything elite about it, no. So if my definition of PVP is askew, YOUR definition of elite needs a little work as well.

Its like watching minivans race. Anti-climactic. If you win, you still lose. Honestly, if they were able to do it without being instagibbed by CONCORD, I would at least see the skill in it. But since that cant happen, minivans it is.

They pick on miners because they cannot defend themselves. A mission runner (albeit while not fit for PVP) can defend himself, if not only by tanking damage until CONCORD wins the epic pvp showdown. Not to mention scanning down a ship in deadspace is a pain in the ass depending on their signature radius... No, the new order is simply a bunch of bullies demanding lunch money from the small kids. Maybe I could respect them for that, if they were to admit thats what it is. Not this mining permit drivel though. "Lawless mining" lmao.

At least a pirate has the decency to be a pirate.

An excellent quote. www.minerbumping.com is full of information just like this. It is best practice to set it as your homepage. I, for one, was shocked that the New Order was not featured in the new forum thread featured in the launcher news regarding helpful information for people new to Eve. Perhaps if we had "university" in our name we would be at the top of the list.

Speaking of noobs, a new article has just been posted for your enjoyment.

*Spoiler alert*

The "noob" is actually older than you think

To be continued at....

www.minerbumping.com

Unlike a minivan race, I think everyone wants to see a hisec full of compliant, at-keyboard miners.

And when it comes to working towards the above, I think the New Order fits your posted definition of elite to a T. If they are not the best, who is better?

Alas it seems we shall have to agree to disagree. I've had fun talking about this with you. You're a stand-up guy.

I'm all for CONCORD podding gankers.. and sleepers podding wh residents.. Sansha podding incursion runners.. Serpentis .. Blood Raiders..

How hysterical would it be to have a miner with a 1.5bil isk pod floating in a belt, AFK of course, get podded by the belt rats. Tears would flow like rain from the sky.