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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Eve F2P?

First post
Author
BORRIS DEMONTFORD
THE OFFENDERS
#61 - 2013-05-23 19:02:10 UTC
F2P?

No thanks.
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#62 - 2013-05-23 19:06:00 UTC
EvE is one of the oldest-surviving computer games, even older than WoW (albeit by a few months). Why change a winning strategy with something that has been shown time and again to have a high rate of failure?
Helios Aquiness
Perkone
Caldari State
#63 - 2013-05-23 19:10:55 UTC
Winter Archipelago wrote:
EvE is one of the oldest-surviving computer games, even older than WoW (albeit by a few months). Why change a winning strategy with something that has been shown time and again to have a high rate of failure?


One of the oldest surviveing mmo's perhaps but not computer game. Diablo 2, The origonal Starcraft and Doom have it beat by far in terms of longevity. But I digress.
Carebear? Im a brony, motherf***er.
Yim Sei
Perkone
Caldari State
#64 - 2013-05-23 19:12:00 UTC
Olterin Fire wrote:
In addition to everything mentioned above (in particular the "no" bits), there's the consideration of just how much the servers can take. Imagine if everyone could suddenly get 10 more alt accounts, and fly them? Or for that matter that the amount of people online would multiply by 10 (arbitrary number to get the point across)? Ok, let's assume the servers can (just barely) take it - let's double the amount of people once again (keep in mind, this is without CCP getting more revenue). Servers crash and burn.

So, in my opinion, it's a very bad idea from a very technical point of view.



Excellent answer sir and I think a very very viable point.

From this simple and mature reply it is now obvious to me that this cant work - many thanks Olterin.



...btw to all those who insulted me, trolled me and generally put out your personal hang ups for all the interwebz to see, why did you bother?

Olterin Fire answered the post perfectly in a mature and intelligent manner, was it so hard for the rest of you?.

..anywho it gave me 4 pages of posts which I imagine would make anyone with half a brain feel infinitely superior so thanks for that ;)

/thread

Post with my main? This is my main - I just overtrain and overplay my alts.

Mat'thias vonKlaive
JynxHeavenly Dragons Inc.
#65 - 2013-05-23 20:07:44 UTC
Helios Aquiness wrote:
Saheed Cha'chris'ra wrote:
All MMO's which were Pay2Play first and were introduced to the F2P-Market failed in the long run. If you want to make a F2P-Game you have to be very careful to get no Pay2win-Imbalance, because then your game will fail.

Eve is not suited for such a model, and not suited for having things like golden ammo with extra damage for $!


Not true, LOTRO went for the hybrid model a few years ago and they are still going strong. Personally I think hybrid is the best model but I like EVE's Make some one else pay 2 play or as I call it. MSOEP2P



^This. I still do LOTRO (I cant play just one mmo, I can't do it!) and it's going strong. Also, more and more games are going f2p because it makes money. LOTS of it. The only reason I doubt it will worth with eve is because eve is simply too "sand box" for it and they are making money from people who have 2-3 accounts. (Who mostly use them to train alts, for example.)

While f2p is the future of mmos, again because it makes a ton of money when done correctly (Again, see LOTRO), I think the "elitism" of the pbase and the open sandbox feel of 7000 systems and 7 billion stories will keep eve from going the full "MT" route rather then the use of plex it currently uses (Which makes it at least semi f2p).

I havent done a trial account in a long while but isn't it a limited time trial? Because I could easily see them go the route of "WAR" and just making it an "endless trial with normal restrictions" (which, no, is not true f2p)
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#66 - 2013-05-23 20:58:48 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
No, you said players WANTED MT. Show me your source for that. I have yet to encounter anyone in game who actually wanted that except for you. Pricing is not at issue and was not referenced in my request.


Ah, so people complaining about the price of items in the virtual item store doesn't mean they wanted things in the virtual item store at a cheaper price, at about, say, the level of a micro transaction?

You're applying the "no true Scotsman" argument here. Pricing was the issue, rather than the presence of the item store. Certainly there were people like me who didn't want the item store in the format that it was executed, but we were by far the minority: for most people the issue wasn't so much the presence of the boots magicked into the economy without player involvement, so much as the price of them. When people are haggling about price, they have already indicated that they want the item.

Just because you didn't want the Noble Exchange doesn't mean everyone else didn't want it. They were complaining about the price of its stock, not the presence of the store. They were complaining about the promises made in Fearless about saved fitting slots being purchasable for Aurum. They were complaining about the future of the game should CCP decide to follow the path of LOTRO, DDO and SW:TOR, not realising that those games went F2P because they were crap (i.e.: they didn't turn to crap because of F2P, though LOTRO didn't help the case by selling The One Ring and SW:TOR didn't help their case by selling hotbars).

Doc Fury wrote:
I have however experienced players who want WIS, show me some statistics where this constitutes more than a dozen or so of the same players posting over and over in the same "GIEV WIS NAOW!!!" threads.


Show me the statistics for people who rioted over WiS. Not the folks who don't care about WiS, not the folks who rioted because WiS took so much time away from flying in space, but the people who rioted because Incarna existed at all. People oohed and aaahed at the presentation back in 2009 (I think?) where Hilmar walked a capsuleer around the inside of the station. We speculated about what else would happen in stations besides trading boosters "off the grid" and playing/betting on Slay, and what would be involved in running an establishment, and would we be able to put our exotic dancers to work drumming up clientele?

Trinity Faetal
Faetal Interstellar Science Institute
#67 - 2013-05-23 21:02:11 UTC
no
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#68 - 2013-05-23 21:03:49 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
No, you said players WANTED MT. Show me your source for that. I have yet to encounter anyone in game who actually wanted that except for you. Pricing is not at issue and was not referenced in my request.


Ah, so people complaining about the price of items in the virtual item store doesn't mean they wanted things in the virtual item store at a cheaper price, at about, say, the level of a micro transaction?

You're applying the "no true Scotsman" argument here. Pricing was the issue, rather than the presence of the item store. Certainly there were people like me who didn't want the item store in the format that it was executed, but we were by far the minority: for most people the issue wasn't so much the presence of the boots magicked into the economy without player involvement, so much as the price of them. When people are haggling about price, they have already indicated that they want the item.

Just because you didn't want the Noble Exchange doesn't mean everyone else didn't want it. They were complaining about the price of its stock, not the presence of the store. They were complaining about the promises made in Fearless about saved fitting slots being purchasable for Aurum. They were complaining about the future of the game should CCP decide to follow the path of LOTRO, DDO and SW:TOR, not realising that those games went F2P because they were crap (i.e.: they didn't turn to crap because of F2P, though LOTRO didn't help the case by selling The One Ring and SW:TOR didn't help their case by selling hotbars).

Doc Fury wrote:
I have however experienced players who want WIS, show me some statistics where this constitutes more than a dozen or so of the same players posting over and over in the same "GIEV WIS NAOW!!!" threads.


Show me the statistics for people who rioted over WiS. Not the folks who don't care about WiS, not the folks who rioted because WiS took so much time away from flying in space, but the people who rioted because Incarna existed at all. People oohed and aaahed at the presentation back in 2009 (I think?) where Hilmar walked a capsuleer around the inside of the station. We speculated about what else would happen in stations besides trading boosters "off the grid" and playing/betting on Slay, and what would be involved in running an establishment, and would we be able to put our exotic dancers to work drumming up clientele?



The onus of proof is on you, as you made the baseless statements. Suggesting that I or anyone else do the research for you is disingenuous and only proves you are making-up things to assert your position. If the facts support your position you should have no trouble linking all of us to that information.

As originally stated: CITATION NEEDED.




There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Stonkeep
Osmanli Empire
#69 - 2013-05-23 21:13:24 UTC
This is an extremely interesting topic. The MMO Market is changing.

Currently only 2 MMO that I know of still sub based are EVE and WoW. Pretty much all other games went F2P. The list includes some triple A productions such as SWTOR, LOTRO, STO, Rift, AgeofConan, Warhammer and many others.

The future MMO industry going to be a very different one from the one we know, this is pretty obvious.

Also, PLEX is not F2P. When you pay your sub with PLEX that means some other player paid your sub instead of you ;).
Isonda
suspended animations DOT
None Of The Above
#70 - 2013-05-23 21:47:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Isonda
Make free to play accounts perma -10 after trail account days, or account lapse, not able to train, not able to turn off the safetey in 0.5 or above space... And unable to use any level 5 or level dependant skill.. ( or maybe cap all skills calculated at 512001 sp until you plex your clone)

Just counted... I have spent more than 7000 usd on eve subs since my first account 10 years ago.
Six Six Six
Doomheim
#71 - 2013-05-23 22:00:49 UTC
Stonkeep wrote:
The future MMO industry going to be a very different one from the one we know, this is pretty obvious.




It is, but after 30 years of gaming it's also the reason I play less and less MMOs and games like Mass Effect, Dragon Age and Skyrim. I see myself ceasing to be a gamer in the not too distant future. As far as MMOs are concerned I'm now just down to EVE, so if I lose interest here then that will be the end of it.
Jarod Garamonde
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2013-05-23 22:25:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarod Garamonde
I have tried F2P MMO's. Screw that.
Crappy engines, botched visuals, boring gameplay, microtransactions for decent stuff, can't win if you don't RMT.

There is a reason I never quit EVE (my old toon doesn't count... I lost track of it when I joined the Army).

Keep your cute little JRPG-style cellshader sprites, your poorly animated angel-winged swordsmen, your animationless medieval strategy browser text, and your huge power gaps between subbed and free accounts (Penny Arcade knocked on that trend, hilariously, a while back).
I will be here... drinking my rum and coke, snarking away in local, jumping unsuspecting lowsec ratters, running with BlOps incursions into Sov-holder nullspace for little more than laughs, and not giving a damn whether or not I'm actually any good at PvP. I'm having fun, dammit.

Here's to 10 more years of EVE.
Maybe some day CCP will let me become Jovian.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Xavier Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
#73 - 2013-05-23 22:28:00 UTC
Yim Sei wrote:
...however you can only use clone upgrades, implants, plex and train/inject skills on a subscribed account?

(I suppose you could even 'police' where they could go with Concord and limit to certain ships)



Would this mean more potential customers for CCP?


Would this mean a massive influx of useless alts or bots?

What does the community think? I am interested


Go back to SWTOR Lol
Shaco LaRusko
Veritas Theory
#74 - 2013-05-23 22:28:42 UTC
Brainless Bimbo wrote:
Yim Sei wrote:
...Drivel


lots of accounts are free to play atm thanks to the introduction of PLEX




Free to play means that CCP gets no money unless you choose to spend it. Someone already bought that plex. CCP got paid. You put in hard labor to have a month to play. It may not cost you the end user money but it was hardly free.
Xavier Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
#75 - 2013-05-23 22:33:06 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Is this a stealth nerf highsec thread?


No, this is a remove local thread, pay attention!
Six Six Six
Doomheim
#76 - 2013-05-23 22:48:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Six Six Six
Shaco LaRusko wrote:
Brainless Bimbo wrote:
Yim Sei wrote:
...Drivel


lots of accounts are free to play atm thanks to the introduction of PLEX




Free to play means that CCP gets no money unless you choose to spend it. Someone already bought that plex. CCP got paid. You put in hard labor to have a month to play. It may not cost you the end user money but it was hardly free.



The way I look at it is making isk in-game is free as it's only leisure time and if people count all their leisure time as having a monetary value then why aren't they out working and earning real money instead of playing games. As far as I'm concerned and I'm sure others probably feel this way, leisure time does not have any monetary value.


Other F2P games will not be free either as someone is paying for you to play albeit indirectly. Some of those F2P games are only partially free as they have restrictions unless you subscribe but those are usually ones that were converted due to falling subscriptions.


Edit: That's not to say some people with their leisure activities can't make real money, but in EVE you don't get that option as we only make toy money in-game. But you do get the option to extend game time with toy money via PLEX.
Jarod Garamonde
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2013-05-23 23:21:02 UTC
Keep Calm
and
Listen To
In Flames

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#78 - 2013-05-23 23:30:58 UTC
the only way ftp would work for me is if you could not train skills... if you want to train you either need plex or pay sub.

that way if you ran out of plex you could still rat/plex and stuff to gain isk to buy a new plex but loose the ability to gain sp untill you get a plex or pay a sub.

not saying i want it that way but its the only way i would accept the concept.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Ocih
Space Mermaids
Somethin Awfull Forums
#79 - 2013-05-23 23:36:06 UTC
It wouldn't work with the EVE model. Considering the huge impact meta gaming already has on EVE, the lengths people will go to in an effort to ruin someones day, giving them a card with no strings attached like a free EVE client, it's the red oak the broke the camels back.
Jadzia Idaris Devereaux
Perkone
Caldari State
#80 - 2013-05-23 23:54:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jadzia Idaris Devereaux
Yim Sei wrote:
...however you can only use clone upgrades, implants, plex and train/inject skills on a subscribed account?

(I suppose you could even 'police' where they could go with Concord and limit to certain ships)



Would this mean more potential customers for CCP?


Would this mean a massive influx of useless alts or bots?

What does the community think? I am interested



absolute not. ...

Not to mention if u can make 500+ m a month which is actually not hard its free just buy a plex.. Between Pi mining and hauling not even including mission running you can make that easy with little to 0 effort. If u cant plex an account in a month of game time your doing it wrong no offence.