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Dev Blog: Resource Shakeup in Odyssey: Just don’t call it a Cataclysm + Companion blog

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Jita Bloodtear
Bloodtear Labs
#521 - 2013-04-30 15:16:46 UTC
Right now the rorqual can compress ore to match the mining rate of 20 perfect ore miners in perfect boosts with 5% implants. Currently a rorqual can only compress ice to match 4 perfect ice miners. After the expansion it will only be able to match compression rates with 2 ice miners. That's a factor of TEN difference. Please reconsider the compression times for ice BPOs for rorquals
agrajag119
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#522 - 2013-04-30 15:19:43 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I wasn't happy with the way the best truesec systems often missed out on good ice so each tier builds upon the one before instead of replacing. The best ice anoms found in the lowest truesec in all areas of space will contain all three non-racial ice types.


Care to elaborate on this a bit here? Will low truesec belts contain a mix of all three non-racial ice or will you get one additional type per tier of truesec?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#523 - 2013-04-30 15:19:59 UTC
Beaver Retriever wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Liz Laser wrote:


So when I do have a free moment, I spend it in high-sec. Except time spent in high-sec keeps becoming less and less valuable and I don't even login except to change skills.


Looks like someone moved your cheese.

Maybe consider adapting?


He did adapt, like many others will do. By playing SWTor.

BTW in that MMO I am on the English PvP server over there, playing a character named... Vaerah.

What a shame, we lost a player who wasn't interested in a sandbox MMO anyway.


Yeah I am subbed to EvE (8 accounts), Istaria, SWTor, WH Online and of course also play GW2 and others.

It's *clearly* because I am not interested to a sandbox game (it's why I am subbed to 2 sandbox MMOs Roll, was 3 before).

Oh wait, I am *adapting* and just downsizing to do something else since I lost 1 avenue of play. Idea

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#524 - 2013-04-30 15:22:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Meltmind2 wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
[quote=CCP Fozzie]
Scanning? Sure, actually make it harder if anything.
Waiting for 3.5 hours for a new spawn like an idiot? NO WAY.

Or you could *gasp* move over to another system and/or mine rocks instead.


Spoken like a true ignorant.

Let me speak it slowly for you: moving 30-ish freighters worth of ice is not a small task even if I currently have 2 freigthers and 1 JF so I am in a better situation than most..

Continuosly relocating requires standings with the appropriate stations for perfect refine and grinding standings is not an overnight task either.

Also, I have multiple rocks mining fleets and 4 Orca boosting characters, *maybe* I also mine rocks? Who knows Roll

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#525 - 2013-04-30 15:25:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Frying Doom wrote:
Meltmind2 wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
[quote=CCP Fozzie]
Scanning? Sure, actually make it harder if anything.
Waiting for 3.5 hours for a new spawn like an idiot? NO WAY.

Or you could *gasp* move over to another system and/or mine rocks instead.

Or stop mining all together and do something that will be still profitable in hi-sec, like missions or incursions.


Missions are 2010, incursions too long to setup and join for my limited time, and currently my available bandwidth (I went to live on a nice islands but that has downsides, like pay per megabyte internet fees).

Also, missions can't compete with mining done well, I have a Vargur and multiple faction / deadspace fitted shinies parked at my base, taking dust.

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#526 - 2013-04-30 15:28:44 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Meltmind2 wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Scanning? Sure, actually make it harder if anything.
Waiting for 3.5 hours for a new spawn like an idiot? NO WAY.

Or you could *gasp* move over to another system and/or mine rocks instead.

Or stop mining all together and do something that will be still profitable in hi-sec, like missions or incursions.

That would involve adapting which is evidently an unthinkable concept, it's only other people who should Adapt Or Die when changes are made.

Much better to sulk and cry on the forums about it instead.


The ones who NEVER stop crying on the forums mostly come from your alliance. Just saying...

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Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
Kvitravn.
#527 - 2013-04-30 15:36:52 UTC
Fozzie, as you plan to improve Outpost... how about improving POS refining?
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#528 - 2013-04-30 15:44:32 UTC
Jita Bloodtear wrote:
Right now the rorqual can compress ore to match the mining rate of 20 perfect ore miners in perfect boosts with 5% implants. Currently a rorqual can only compress ice to match 4 perfect ice miners. After the expansion it will only be able to match compression rates with 2 ice miners. That's a factor of TEN difference. Please reconsider the compression times for ice BPOs for rorquals

please don't those vile ice compression rorquals will steal all our tax monies
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#529 - 2013-04-30 16:16:40 UTC
Ereilian wrote:
I will not make the usual "omg ragequit" statements but personally I will be allowing most of my mining alts to lapse as I see the new system as taking change too far.

Please do.
Let the live people enjoy the game.
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#530 - 2013-04-30 16:17:46 UTC
Guys my very enthusiastic ice mining operation!!!! SadSadSad

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
Dmitri Ronuken
ReStore of Reset
#531 - 2013-04-30 16:30:06 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Kadl wrote:


I would also like to see the new ice sites as signatures, but keeping the grav sites is more important.


We're quite happy in general with the increased risk associated with the increased reward. Ore sites in lowsec, 0.0 and wormholes (especially lowsec) are getting a whole lot more valuable.



You and others might be happy with with the "improved" risk/reward balance, but I'm not happy that you've removed a lot of the fun in mining. You just eliminated prospecting from the game, and any reason for miners to pick up scanning and astrometrics skills. Why not just make the "hidden" asteroid fields show up like the static belts? One button click is a joke of a separation. The only challenge left in mining now is ganking, and that's not the same kind of fun as scanning down a 1.25% gravimetric signature and being the first person to mine it was. If miners wanted to play PvP they'd play PvP in something other than mining barges.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#532 - 2013-04-30 16:50:22 UTC
Dmitri Ronuken wrote:
You and others might be happy with with the "improved" risk/reward balance, but I'm not happy that you've removed a lot of the fun in mining. You just eliminated prospecting from the game, and any reason for miners to pick up scanning and astrometrics skills. Why not just make the "hidden" asteroid fields show up like the static belts? One button click is a joke of a separation. The only challenge left in mining now is ganking, and that's not the same kind of fun as scanning down a 1.25% gravimetric signature and being the first person to mine it was. If miners wanted to play PvP they'd play PvP in something other than mining barges.


There's also the non secondary factor that true scanning would be harder to bot than the proposed simpleton way.

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Iosue
League of Gentlemen
The Initiative.
#533 - 2013-04-30 16:58:46 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Kadl wrote:
Welcome back Fozzie.

There are a number of people asking that you keep the grav sites as signatures (probable), as opposed to converting them to anomalies. I would like to give you two more reasons to avoid making the conversion. First the work to do this can be avoided, leaving happier players. Second, changing this now and then discovering the problems will only cause more difficulties in the future. Of course, the numerous reasons already listed are also important such as the problems that this causes for wormhole miners, a miner considering low sec, and some null sec miners.

I would also like to see the new ice sites as signatures, but keeping the grav sites is more important.


We're quite happy in general with the increased risk associated with the increased reward. Ore sites in lowsec, 0.0 and wormholes (especially lowsec) are getting a whole lot more valuable.


Fozzie, do you see this changing the calculus of when industry upgrades are installed in null? if the system already has access to ABC ores, there will be less reason to upgrade space. the protection offered by current grav site mechanics gives incentive to spend isk improving even good trusec. if you remove this mechanic, they will be less reason to improve space if attractive ores are already in abundance in that system.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#534 - 2013-04-30 17:05:16 UTC
Iosue wrote:

Fozzie, do you see this changing the calculus of when industry upgrades are installed in null? if the system already has access to ABC ores, there will be less reason to upgrade space. the protection offered by current grav site mechanics gives incentive to spend isk improving even good trusec. if you remove this mechanic, they will be less reason to improve space if attractive ores are already in abundance in that system.

at the rate people mine out grav anoms the system would be utterly bare every day if they tried just belt mining

they'll keep anom mining
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#535 - 2013-04-30 17:06:51 UTC
So Fozzie.
Have you and CCP Rise completely stopped taking feedback on the ship and module balance changes?
Are you just going to release things as they are currently presented?
We're just over a month from release and the last time you or he posted in any of the Amarr T1 BS or the LET threads was just a handful of posts by Rise completely discarding most of the feedback in the thread from the past 90 pages before his post. And those handful of posts were over a week after anything previously.

What's the point of making such threads then? You haven't really given us much indication that you're doing anything about them, that you're reading them anymore, or even that you care.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#536 - 2013-04-30 17:10:56 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
So Fozzie.
Have you and CCP Rise completely stopped taking feedback on the ship and module balance changes?
Are you just going to release things as they are currently presented?
We're just over a month from release and the last time you or he posted in any of the Amarr T1 BS or the LET threads was just a handful of posts by Rise completely discarding most of the feedback in the thread from the past 90 pages before his post. And those handful of posts were over a week after anything previously.

What's the point of making such threads then? You haven't really given us much indication that you're doing anything about them, that you're reading them anymore, or even that you care.


We've been very busy with fanfest and myself with getting these devblogs out the door. We're definitely not done taking feedback on those balance changes.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Meltmind2
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#537 - 2013-04-30 17:18:28 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Meltmind2 wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
[quote=CCP Fozzie]
Scanning? Sure, actually make it harder if anything.
Waiting for 3.5 hours for a new spawn like an idiot? NO WAY.

Or you could *gasp* move over to another system and/or mine rocks instead.


Spoken like a true ignorant.

Let me speak it slowly for you: moving 30-ish freighters worth of ice is not a small task even if I currently have 2 freigthers and 1 JF so I am in a better situation than most..

Continuosly relocating requires standings with the appropriate stations for perfect refine and grinding standings is not an overnight task either.

Also, I have multiple rocks mining fleets and 4 Orca boosting characters, *maybe* I also mine rocks? Who knows Roll

The 4h respawn time means you have plenty of time to relocate, haul stuff around or do ~other things~.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#538 - 2013-04-30 17:19:23 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Meltmind2 wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
[quote=CCP Fozzie]
Scanning? Sure, actually make it harder if anything.
Waiting for 3.5 hours for a new spawn like an idiot? NO WAY.

Or you could *gasp* move over to another system and/or mine rocks instead.


Spoken like a true ignorant.

Let me speak it slowly for you: moving 30-ish freighters worth of ice is not a small task even if I currently have 2 freigthers and 1 JF so I am in a better situation than most..

Continuosly relocating requires standings with the appropriate stations for perfect refine and grinding standings is not an overnight task either.

Also, I have multiple rocks mining fleets and 4 Orca boosting characters, *maybe* I also mine rocks? Who knows Roll

out of pure curiosity where do you mine
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#539 - 2013-04-30 17:22:37 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
So Fozzie.
Have you and CCP Rise completely stopped taking feedback on the ship and module balance changes?
Are you just going to release things as they are currently presented?
We're just over a month from release and the last time you or he posted in any of the Amarr T1 BS or the LET threads was just a handful of posts by Rise completely discarding most of the feedback in the thread from the past 90 pages before his post. And those handful of posts were over a week after anything previously.

What's the point of making such threads then? You haven't really given us much indication that you're doing anything about them, that you're reading them anymore, or even that you care.


We've been very busy with fanfest and myself with getting these devblogs out the door. We're definitely not done taking feedback on those balance changes.

Well that's comforting. At what point before an expansion would you say changes are locked in? A week before? Two weeks?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
DrDethHunter
Shoal of the Intrepid Righteousness
#540 - 2013-04-30 17:25:32 UTC
Everytime you think you need to fix something that is not broken you need to revamp it and make it worse for the the little guy. some of us don't have the time to go searching for worm holes and anomalies or sites. And when your on a fixed income and like to play multiple games then you have to choose what to play and not play. I like playing eve and I have been playing for a long time and from time to time I have posted when I felt something was wrong. like when the Personally owned station got messed up. now you doing the same with the ice belts. I see I serious ecomony backlass where prices are going to skyrocket in player goods instead of being stable or going down. As right now the buy order on ice are going up so that means when the ice disappears into a randopm hidden belt a lot of us are going to be looking for a new game to play because ccp forgets about us bread and butter people in the industry area. Ice harvesting should stay static but make so it spawns and despawns every 4 hrs sounds better,. I don't know just know it will make the ecomony worse for some of us with low isk compare to others like goons or test who have big wallets. I like buying plexes with my isk and with the ice going away guess I wont be buying plexes anymore and my accounts will be shutting down.