Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Entity, You should start crying now, that sounds as if the RSI will get nerved into oblivion.

That is one mad dude over there.

The Rokh didn't change at all except for a VERY LIGHT EHP REDUCTION. Very light means it will lose maybe 8k EHP. It's safe to say that the Rokh didn't change at all. It became a good fleet ship with the Hybrid changes, and will still be a good fleet ship after those changes. A damage bonus wouldn't hurt, that's for sure. But I like both bonuses. It just happens to be a range bonus. I'm alright with it.

The Raven got the ability to be fit as it's supposed to be (ie with T2 launchers, a heavy neut, a propmod and a proper shield tank) with the extra goodness of +1 medslot. While I still doubt the usability of the Raven in both fleets and small gangs because of the torps themselves, I think that it became better overall. 7 Medslots means you can fit a MWD, 2 LSE, Invul, Invul, Scrambler, Targetpainter. That kind of tank isn't stellar, sure. But at least it can apply more damage that you ever could while still keeping some EHP.

The main problem remains the weapon system. And the issue is pretty simple to understand. Torps don't have anywhere near enough range, and it's quite hard to apply full damage, even with multiple painters. If that is fixed, the Raven is mostly fixed.

The second most important problem the Raven encounters is its capacitor. It's bad beyond measure. Can't move around with the MWD without emptying it in seconds.

The Scorpion could have gotten +1 lowslot -1 highslot, that would have gave him either more jamming power or more armor tank. Considering the ECM nerfs, I think it would have been a good change.

Not much to say to these changes really as they're not as radical as the other races.

You're reducing the base shield of the Raven? I don't think that's a good idea even with no tackle it's shield ehp fit isn't great. I think you should leave it's shield as is. The raven is also still incredibly slow. One of the reasons no one PvPs solo in a Raven - and I've tried. You have to not only give up 3 mids for mwd disruptor and web which is half of your mid slots, even when you tackle anything they're still way faster than you and you can't keep them tackled. Keep the Rokh and Scorp slow but make the Raven a bit faster, it's still pretty fat.

As far as Scorp it could use the base EHP. I think you could consider dropping a mid for a 5th low though.

Does that mean that the build cost of the Scorpion will remain the same, considering that you are basically not changing the ship ? Or should we expect the usual ~+60% price hike the "tier 1" hulls have encountered at smaller hull sizes.

I'm a bit worried that you might push that basically suicide ship hull cost to the levels where it might no longer make sense to fly a Scorpion over, say, falcon, for example.

CCP Rise have you considered reducing the Rokh's optimal range bonus to say 7.5% or 5% in exchange for more speed and reduced mass or even a combo of damage and range?

rails at battleship level don't need a range bonus to be useful but it could use more damage and a blaster version could use more mobility and damage to be worthwhile instead of using a shield mega?

These ideas are terrible.

The Rokh is very healthy as a fleet BS because of its tank and damage projection. It needs these abilities more than it needs minor mobility increases, and it certainly doesn't need to tread on the toes of what the Gallente fleet BS should look like - a railboat with less tank but considerably greater tracking and gank at close ranges, which is what your idea of a damage bonus and reduced range bonus would do.

Stop trying to neuter the Scorpion while keeping it an ECM boat. If you don't like it as an ECM boat, then change it entirely, don't do this half-arsed single missile bonus. As a fleet ewar BS it again needs force projection and it doesn't need mobility as nearly as much as the Raven anyway, whose unimpressive mobility you appear quite happy with! The only real change I'd make to the Scorp is to move a highslot to a lowslot so it can fit a better armour tank.

I really dislike the idea of ships being limited to a fleet/blob role, not everybody enjoys that kind of game play - I certainly don't. Making ships less viable for small gangs or 1 vs N won't "bring solo back". Besides that "very light EHP reduction" isn't so light when active-tanked. I compared the new stats with the Maelstrom in one of my earlier posts. How can that difference in solo performance be justified?

I really had hoped for a battleship buff in general to make them useful PvP boats in a much broader variety of situations. Whilst an across-the-board-damage-increase might be game-breaking, one easy way to achieve an improvement for this ship class would be to enhance the tanks. Now the sword of Damocles that the exact opposite might happen is dangling above our heads! This is really frustrating.

Tilo R.

Coming back to this after reading the minmatar BS post...

Why do you nerf the Rokh's Active shieldtank capabilities but do nothing to the already superior Meal tank?
I just dont get it. What is this thought progress?
If you say RR then nerf it to4% but nerf the meal to 5% shieldboost aswell.

Or do you really want me to fly solo Blastermeal this badly?!

First off, the only Caldari battleship that have been usefull lately have been the Rokh.

Rokh: "Take a good hard look At the motherfu*#ing Rokh. I'm in a Rokh!" You get it, its a somewhat iconic ship with alot of fans, so please dont make it yet another Caldari BS that gets left in the shadows after the other racial BS's gets pulled out of the mud, ok? I dont mind the changes, resistances are way powerful in the game as it is, and on big hull, i like that your giving it a small but hopefully noticable nerf. But dont just leave it at that, give it some usefull love in other areas just to keep it a open choice for large shield ships, those are already very rare when it comes to the Caldari line as it is. If not for this ship, BS or higher, Caldari blows, end of discussion. They all need some luvin', ok? *cough* Chimera *cough*

Raven: The biggest thing thats gonna effect the Raven, is how you guys decide on changing the large missiles. I'm gonna abstain on commenting, and instead hold my breath until i've read that thread.

Scorpion: Now this is the place you should be thinking outside the box guys. You've already decided to not follow the standards and give the Caldari a unique battleship in this, and i love the fact your doing that, cause it keeps the hope of a meta thats been circling the drain still alive. But instead of going "Yeah, we're keeping it as is", and in most other ships your saying "We're trying to focus on enhancing the ships strong points", but with these changes the Scorpion are still not going to be usefull. As so many already have said, why fly a Scorpion when you could fly a Falcon? So how about this, and hear me out please:

Slot layout: 4H(-2), 8M, 6L(+2); 2 turrets , 2 launchers

Everyone knows the Scorpion isnt there to help doing DPS. You never bring a knife to a gunfight, and thats what this ship is supposed to be, the ultimate swiss armyknife. Its there to stay alive, and to be a great utility ship. 9 Mids give that chance, focusing on its intended purpose and (hopefully) strong points, say with 8 ecm and a prop mod, and then leave those 6 lows for a Caldari Armortank BS. If thats not mixing things up enough already, remove the ECM burst bonus and instead say give it 10% Energy Transfer Amount pr lvl. Why you say? Imagine this: You take out your 50-200man Shield fleet, and as support, you bring along a squad of Scorpions. Right now, mixing up armor tanks and shield tanks in EVE is unheard of, and it pretty much should be, but what if the Scorpions was the support ships that actually took care of themself? 4 highslots, 2 of them used for remote armor repairs, and two for energy transfer. The scorpions make a cap chain like logis does, keeping eachother alive (rest of the shield logis take care of the fleet), and also help supporting the main fleet with ECM, and with the good amount of lowslots, its sporting a tank that actually gives the rest of the Scorpion Squad enough time to atleast try to keep it alive instead of yellowbox=your scrapmetal. However dont make it capstable doing this like other logi, make it only able to hold eachother alive long enough to actually be on the battlefield for a while. Think about it, how much more variety wouldnt something like this bring. Ofc this is just a example, but again the support ships isnt there to do the damage, its there to stay alive and be usefull in other ways for the good of the group. Its of no good if its dead 10 sec after the engagement. Im not saying you should go totaly overboard and make it a "must have" in all types of battleship+ fleets, but again, keep it a option for those that want to mix things up abit instead of it being yet another big caldari ship just collecting dust in hangars. Something like this could even help justify the Neutralizer and Energy Vampire range on the Armageddon, making that a very good counter to this sort of setup.

The Scorpion (and its variations) are unique hulls visually, and alot of new players join the game and go "Wow, i want that ship!" After weeks and weeks of playing, finally getting to the point when they got the option to start using it, they notice how horrible they all are, and then regret all the time spent on training up the caldari tree when they could (and should have), stopped at Caldari Cruisers.. Even Vic knew it looked cool, but he also knew that after becoming so experienced flying those ships that he could get into a Widow, he could only gank Ventures that was afk-mining. It was cool enough to sport as the trailer for a expansion and hopefully draw in alot of new players to the game, but for him as a person, all it got him was a nice bounty and a trip back to the clone bays. Let us learn from Vic's mistakes, keep the Scorpion variations alive! Dont let it die like this please.



And the absolute worst change with Oddysey? CCP Rise Why change something that isnt broken. Give us CCP Kil2! you're awsome man and we all love you. Dont try to hide from your past, we all know who you are, you scoundrel!

XDMR, I think CCP Rise is a bit invested in Alpha-maels game wise, so they remain untouched. Rokhs and Abaddons on the other hand, have the only bonus that can stand up to alphagank, so they get nerfed.

CCP Rise, please post that resists rebalance thread so that we may try to convince you to change something other than the Rokh and Abaddon's resist bonuses, Your not just nerfing their tanks here, your are also giving a giant middle finger to anyone who has trained Battleship 5 for these ships.

If remote reps + resist tank is OP, lets talk about adding a temporary resist penalty to people who are actively receiving remote reps. There are ways to make the game more interesting and tactical without screwing over those of use who have invested 40 days into BS 5 and 120 days into tech 2 large weapons.

Edit: Here are the changes the Rokh should have gotten:

+25 M3 drone bay
100 m/s base speed
1000 sec cap recharge (Possibly via a 4% per level hull bonus for cap recharge time, BS's should all get 3 hull bonuses each. 2 major, and 1 minor. The Abaddon should get this bonus too.)