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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Caldari

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InZerobiq
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#761 - 2013-05-16 03:41:30 UTC
Would it be possible to make the Scorpion an omni EWAR ship, that is, giving it bonuses to tracking disputers, sensor dampeners, and ECM. Not sure if that would be too OP but I'd imagine the ship would get used more if the pilot had more choices in EWAR. I'm not suggesting it should keep the 3 ECM bonuses it has now and add these, but give it a single bonus to each of the 3 EWAR.

Just a thought....
Bigg Gun
T.I.E. Inc.
#762 - 2013-05-16 05:11:04 UTC
I like it, although I don't see how somebody not shooting at you at all is worse than somebody shooting at you with less tracking, ah well. It will never be a ship that is all that effective in big fleets and now and at 200 mil it's gonna be better to use the falcon, faster locks and smaller target. At least it's a t1 insurable hull
Thaddeus Magnificen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#763 - 2013-05-17 01:25:45 UTC
What I've never understood about Caldari ships is that even though they're all shield focused, they seem to be some of the highest mass, biggest signature and slowest ships in the game. Are the shield generating systems so much heavier than just adding armour or what?
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#764 - 2013-05-17 07:24:02 UTC
Thaddeus Magnificen wrote:
What I've never understood about Caldari ships is that even though they're all shield focused, they seem to be some of the highest mass, biggest signature and slowest ships in the game. Are the shield generating systems so much heavier than just adding armour or what?

nope cause winmatar is also shieldish ,but they are the fastest ,smallest and lightest ships
basically ccp keep things like this to make caldari unusable in pvp,
and argue that 5% more shield hp than winmatar balance it out somehow...
full biased devs thats all it takes
Dragonv2
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#765 - 2013-05-17 07:57:17 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
Thaddeus Magnificen wrote:
What I've never understood about Caldari ships is that even though they're all shield focused, they seem to be some of the highest mass, biggest signature and slowest ships in the game. Are the shield generating systems so much heavier than just adding armour or what?

nope cause winmatar is also shieldish ,but they are the fastest ,smallest and lightest ships
basically ccp keep things like this to make caldari unusable in pvp,
and argue that 5% more shield hp than winmatar balance it out somehow...
full biased devs thats all it takes


I wish it weren't true but based of the current way the caldari ships are going, pretty certain there is a bias, admittedly caldari have some pretty good frigs right now though, maybe ccp just sucks at BS re balancing :P

as for why they are so slow, they could probably explain it for all the stabilizer systems that allow the caldari ships to fire on targets very far away, kinda like how a sniper rifle is much heavier and larger than a assault rifle
lovatus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#766 - 2013-05-17 08:03:15 UTC
speed issue is probably to differentiate the feel between caldari and minmatar, the idea being caldari are slower but stronger shielded and more focused while minmatar were faster and more varied. obviously its not completely worked out.

also I notice we dont have a really good reason to take a rokh over a naga, they could have turned the rokh into a decent mid range brawler but theyve left it mostly the same
fuxinos
Perkone
Caldari State
#767 - 2013-05-17 11:27:08 UTC  |  Edited by: fuxinos
Any PVP pilot with brain would fly a Typhoon over a Raven aaaany day after these changes.

If its an attack battleship then get rid of this useless velocity bonus and replace it with a explosion radius bonus acompanied by a 7th launcher hardpoint and the needed PG/CPU for it.

That would set it apart from the Typhoon.

And no, it would not be OP considering the Typhoon has a 125m/bits drone bandwith in exchange and the raven has no utility highslot then.Attention

Also the explosion radius just makes more sense for an attack shipAttention

How about a reply Rise? I would be inrested in what you would say to this suggestion.
Josilin du Guesclin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#768 - 2013-05-17 12:35:39 UTC
lovatus wrote:
speed issue is probably to differentiate the feel between caldari and minmatar, the idea being caldari are slower but stronger shielded and more focused while minmatar were faster and more varied. obviously its not completely worked out.

also I notice we dont have a really good reason to take a rokh over a naga, they could have turned the rokh into a decent mid range brawler but theyve left it mostly the same
Once upon a time Caldari ships were slow, but tend to be agile, but over time they've been made increasingly clumsy as well.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#769 - 2013-05-17 13:12:36 UTC
lovatus wrote:
speed issue is probably to differentiate the feel between caldari and minmatar, the idea being caldari are slower but stronger shielded and more focused while minmatar were faster and more varied. obviously its not completely worked out.

also I notice we dont have a really good reason to take a rokh over a naga, they could have turned the rokh into a decent mid range brawler but theyve left it mostly the same


It wouldnt be bad if minmatar speedy/small/and paper and caldari slow+bulky+tanky,but i cant see where caldari is tankier at all.
Minmatar ships has nearly the same shield hp as caldari but more armor, the extra hull hp is meaningless
just compare them:
raven: 7000(-500) / 5800(-841) / 6400(-241)
tempest: 7000(+46) / 7300(+1089) / 6800(+259)
typhoon: 6500(+289) / 6000(+531) / 6000(-211)

mael:8000 / 7500 / 7000
rokh:8500 / 7000 / 7500
not even 10%more shield hp... and after you put on some exterders which give the same hp for all race the advantage is even less
then add in that the matar ship reduces incoming dmg better due to smaller sig/faster movement, and need more time to be locked
and you end up with matar ships tanking better

Ofcourse the shield resistance bonused ships tank better but that is cause of the bonus ,where matar ship gets a dmg/rof bonus.

If ccp realy would wanted races to be balanced they would give caldari better base shield resists.
Johnson Oramara
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#770 - 2013-05-17 14:20:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Johnson Oramara
Naomi Knight wrote:
If ccp realy would wanted races to be balanced they would give caldari better base shield resists.

If they did that every single amarr, gallente and minmatar pilot would be yelling for a nerf until ccp gave in. Or it would be done in a way that they reduce something in exchange making the outcome as zero or possibly even negative.
Kenshi Hanshin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#771 - 2013-05-18 23:36:04 UTC
Johnson Oramara wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:
If ccp realy would wanted races to be balanced they would give caldari better base shield resists.

If they did that every single amarr, gallente and minmatar pilot would be yelling for a nerf until ccp gave in. Or it would be done in a way that they reduce something in exchange making the outcome as zero or possibly even negative.


Can't disagree with that remark...
Sumthinburnin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#772 - 2013-05-20 19:14:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Sumthinburnin
All of these changes matter not if BS are still beaten by lesser vessels.

Strat cruisers own BS

I think the best change you could make to the BS lines for ALL races, give them the functionality that the strat cruisers get. Allow us to build the BS that WE want.

Anything less than this, is really just a waist of time and energy. I am not saying nerf the cruiser, I am saying bring our BS up to par and give us the same choices they have.

You want an 8 slot rokh missile boat - u could do it
You want a faster BS- u could do it
ECM improvement- easy just pick the right parts

I don't see why this is not even on the list of things to do, its already in game its just a matter of including other ships.
Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#773 - 2013-05-21 07:33:48 UTC
Sumthinburnin wrote:
All of these changes matter not if BS are still beaten by lesser vessels.

Strat cruisers own BS

I think the best change you could make to the BS lines for ALL races, give them the functionality that the strat cruisers get. Allow us to build the BS that WE want.

Anything less than this, is really just a waist of time and energy. I am not saying nerf the cruiser, I am saying bring our BS up to par and give us the same choices they have.

You want an 8 slot rokh missile boat - u could do it
You want a faster BS- u could do it
ECM improvement- easy just pick the right parts

I don't see why this is not even on the list of things to do, its already in game its just a matter of including other ships.


T3 Battleship, yummy..
Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#774 - 2013-05-21 07:35:11 UTC
Sure many have noticed CCP found time to bork the CNR, and actually give the Fleet Phoon missile systems as well and of course made it better than the CNR, all the while nerfing its dps.
Jitoru
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#775 - 2013-05-21 07:54:21 UTC
Either the above... Modular building of battleships... or there could be just the Weapons being adjusted.

CCP could invent a new module, a slotitem, that makes several weaponslots out of one battleship weaponslots.

medium Weapon battery: Would make 2 Medium Size WEapon Slots out of one Battleship sized... only allowing medium weapons in it.

you could make a small weapon battery too. Using one Large Weapon Gun- or Missileslot they would make room for 3 small weapons.

By adding this items a Battleship could fit against smaller ships by sacrificing a little Large Weapon Damage for better Tracking of small Weapons, inventing the feeling of a real Battleship out of all the movies we all know.

Of course a serious closer look is needed for this to balance right.

Maybe we could give it a thought.
TehCloud
Guardians of the Dodixie
#776 - 2013-05-21 08:13:54 UTC
Hagika wrote:
Sure many have noticed CCP found time to bork the CNR, and actually give the Fleet Phoon missile systems as well and of course made it better than the CNR, all the while nerfing its dps.


So please tell me how the CNR got nerfed, since with the new CMs and it's new bonus it's doing more dps than before. It also has an additional Medslot, really got nerfed.

Please explain why you think it got nerfed. (7x1.25>8 is not a valid argument in this case)

My Condor costs less than that module!
Otto Schultzky
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#777 - 2013-05-22 00:59:11 UTC
Why is Rokh not getting a 25m drone bay increase?

That would put it inline with the rest of the former Teir 3 / LvL 3 Battleships and proposed Combat Battleships

There is absolutely no reason to train Large Hybrid weapons if you fly Caldari and if you do have large Hybrid weapons then you should have cross trained Gank-lante and Win-matar
Grunnax Aurelius
State War Academy
Caldari State
#778 - 2013-05-22 01:19:55 UTC
Otto Schultzky wrote:
Why is Rokh not getting a 25m drone bay increase?

That would put it inline with the rest of the former Teir 3 / LvL 3 Battleships and proposed Combat Battleships

There is absolutely no reason to train Large Hybrid weapons if you fly Caldari and if you do have large Hybrid weapons then you should have cross trained Gank-lante and Win-matar


First of All its Gay-lentte and Second of all is Minma-tard, get it right man, ok lets see your Megathron deal 1000DPS at an optimal of 12km with 0 tracking mods, oh look the megathron reaches 6750m sorry bud!!!

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#779 - 2013-05-22 11:42:39 UTC
aaand the scorp still doesn't have the correct scanres on the test server, still only has 75 as opposed to the updated 110

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#780 - 2013-05-22 11:57:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Caitlyn Tufy
Otto Schultzky wrote:
Why is Rokh not getting a 25m drone bay increase?

That would put it inline with the rest of the former Teir 3 / LvL 3 Battleships and proposed Combat Battleships

There is absolutely no reason to train Large Hybrid weapons if you fly Caldari and if you do have large Hybrid weapons then you should have cross trained Gank-lante and Win-matar


Rokh's problem isn't its power - it never was. Rokh's problem is that it's effectively a dead end as a shield hybrid battleship. Every following caldari tier (navy, pirate, T2) either uses missiles or a non-caldari weapon system (in the case of Nightmare).