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why cant we have mining moved to grav sites?

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Darenthul
Anstard Armory Inc.
#81 - 2012-12-12 18:00:41 UTC
Kathtrine wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
Darenthul wrote:
Also throw in the fact there are barely enough grav sites as is.. I scanned down a dozen systems last night, low traveled ones too, and only one found and it was already being mined. (Full skilled, full setup scanning ship I should note)


That's just luck, all I ever get is grav sites and I have no interest in them ¬¬


Thats becuase EVE can read your mind and knows you dont want them.


I would love to see more Grav Sites in EvE. But really we do have them. Run lvl 3 missions and then go mine them out. You could also scan down the Mission runners and go scout thier mission to see if it has rocks. Mind you it wont be jaspet or hemorphite but just extra high-sec ore. Mostly its Veldspar but other ores do show up.

And your not likely to run into a random belt Ganker. Not that they bother me much.


The only thing is, there really is never much ore in those and they're always tiny asteroids. The time to find/clear/mine them with a fleet makes them less effective than belting.

However for solo mining it works well.

"I find mining to be an incredibly relaxing thing to do after work. It's like fishing without waking up early. Or cold. But the beer, the beer is the same." - arramdaywalker
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#82 - 2012-12-12 18:04:15 UTC
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Darenthul wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
So no one truly hates this plan of action?


We've all come to the conclusion exploration is dated, crude, and poorly implemented in the current scheme of things. Its an old system that needs updating as much as the next.

When I get caught up here at work in a bit I'll begin writing a proposal and link it from here (for the ideas/features forum) and we'll see what kind of support we get going.


I agree as well.

The can fix that at the same time as they do this change as it would go hand in hand.

You do realize that Scanning has been updated (2 or 3 years ago)?

Seriously - you can't just filter your results?

/pants-on-head.....

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2012-12-12 18:07:46 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Darenthul wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
So no one truly hates this plan of action?


We've all come to the conclusion exploration is dated, crude, and poorly implemented in the current scheme of things. Its an old system that needs updating as much as the next.

When I get caught up here at work in a bit I'll begin writing a proposal and link it from here (for the ideas/features forum) and we'll see what kind of support we get going.


I agree as well.

The can fix that at the same time as they do this change as it would go hand in hand.

You do realize that Scanning has been updated (2 or 3 years ago)?

Seriously - you can't just filter your results?

/pants-on-head.....


Once again, another poster that doesn't read the thread before jumping to conclusions. I know you vets like to think you know everything, but if you read the thread, you would see that we've been over this.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Borascus
#84 - 2012-12-12 18:10:20 UTC
This Stealth-Pyerite-Buy-Order needs to take accessibility to the front line.

As is, new players leaving the starter systems can find that their 3 week old pilot can make or produce enough minerals to buy a cruiser every three hours.

Moving roids to scannable belts prevents that. Veld prices would drop stupidly low as it "requires no effort". Cutting another new batch of new players out of their only cycle.

The main power blocs in EVE have "years of history in EVE" knowing that it will take 286 million days for a Titan is accepted and expected (figure out of my ass for ebb and flow). New players don't want to wait 5 months to jump into their carefully selected Myrmidon they've just bought the BPO for.

The current belt system allows cruiser production early, learning scanning skills for 3 weeks - Roll


If you wanted mid-minerals out of the belts they are, its Hedbergite etc... only available at Grav sites in hi-sec. Where is the Morphite coming from if people aren't farming Mercoxit?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2012-12-12 18:14:15 UTC
Borascus wrote:
This Stealth-Pyerite-Buy-Order needs to take accessibility to the front line.

As is, new players leaving the starter systems can find that their 3 week old pilot can make or produce enough minerals to buy a cruiser every three hours.

Moving roids to scannable belts prevents that. Veld prices would drop stupidly low as it "requires no effort". Cutting another new batch of new players out of their only cycle.

The main power blocs in EVE have "years of history in EVE" knowing that it will take 286 million days for a Titan is accepted and expected (figure out of my ass for ebb and flow). New players don't want to wait 5 months to jump into their carefully selected Myrmidon they've just bought the BPO for.

The current belt system allows cruiser production early, learning scanning skills for 3 weeks - Roll


If you wanted mid-minerals out of the belts they are, its Hedbergite etc... only available at Grav sites in hi-sec. Where is the Morphite coming from if people aren't farming Mercoxit?


You can get morphite easily from reprocessing modules looted on missions. I've got a huge cache of the stuff and I've never touched Merc

And as has been stated previously, I was scanning sites on my second day in the game. It cuts out no one. Just makes them work harder for the rewards.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Darenthul
Anstard Armory Inc.
#86 - 2012-12-12 18:15:45 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Borascus wrote:
This Stealth-Pyerite-Buy-Order needs to take accessibility to the front line.

As is, new players leaving the starter systems can find that their 3 week old pilot can make or produce enough minerals to buy a cruiser every three hours.

Moving roids to scannable belts prevents that. Veld prices would drop stupidly low as it "requires no effort". Cutting another new batch of new players out of their only cycle.

The main power blocs in EVE have "years of history in EVE" knowing that it will take 286 million days for a Titan is accepted and expected (figure out of my ass for ebb and flow). New players don't want to wait 5 months to jump into their carefully selected Myrmidon they've just bought the BPO for.

The current belt system allows cruiser production early, learning scanning skills for 3 weeks - Roll


If you wanted mid-minerals out of the belts they are, its Hedbergite etc... only available at Grav sites in hi-sec. Where is the Morphite coming from if people aren't farming Mercoxit?


You can get morphite easily from reprocessing modules looted on missions. I've got a huge cache of the stuff and I've never touched Merc

And as has been stated previously, I was scanning sites on my second day in the game. It cuts out no one. Just makes them work harder for the rewards.


And adds new tiers of rewards past there.

"I find mining to be an incredibly relaxing thing to do after work. It's like fishing without waking up early. Or cold. But the beer, the beer is the same." - arramdaywalker
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#87 - 2012-12-12 18:16:45 UTC
Bear in mind it's been at least 2 years since I have been in an indy corp (and I was always stuck hauling when we did ops), but we did grav sits more than belts when we did ops because they are worth more than belts, usually have some higher end ores, and are off the overview, making it safe from casual flippers.

I'm not sure changing mining to be all sites would really improve things. it would hurt the newbies, and small groups while not really effecting the large corps (though the change in meneral prices from making it more difficult for John Doe in his Venture might change mineral prices)
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#88 - 2012-12-12 18:16:47 UTC
Grav Anomaly sites for the majority of low ores would be just as easy for the newbies to find as belts, you just include them in the career mining missions.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Darenthul
Anstard Armory Inc.
#89 - 2012-12-12 18:18:40 UTC
Or have low end ones findable on ship scanners.

"I find mining to be an incredibly relaxing thing to do after work. It's like fishing without waking up early. Or cold. But the beer, the beer is the same." - arramdaywalker
Darenthul
Anstard Armory Inc.
#90 - 2012-12-12 18:36:16 UTC
Finished my example spreadsheet:

http://i.imgur.com/jAzKD.png

To note, for those who don't understand which are new/not. The Orange/Blue ones would be new.

"I find mining to be an incredibly relaxing thing to do after work. It's like fishing without waking up early. Or cold. But the beer, the beer is the same." - arramdaywalker
Eru GoEller
State War Academy
Caldari State
#91 - 2012-12-12 18:38:10 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Darenthul wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
So no one truly hates this plan of action?


We've all come to the conclusion exploration is dated, crude, and poorly implemented in the current scheme of things. Its an old system that needs updating as much as the next.

When I get caught up here at work in a bit I'll begin writing a proposal and link it from here (for the ideas/features forum) and we'll see what kind of support we get going.


I agree as well.

The can fix that at the same time as they do this change as it would go hand in hand.

You do realize that Scanning has been updated (2 or 3 years ago)?

Seriously - you can't just filter your results?

/pants-on-head.....


Once again, another poster that doesn't read the thread before jumping to conclusions. I know you vets like to think you know everything, but if you read the thread, you would see that we've been over this.


Jumping again, your "special gears" sounds to be exatly what the old probes did, also it adds another layer to scanning, which
in itself have enough of micromanaging without adding another one.
Darenthul
Anstard Armory Inc.
#92 - 2012-12-12 18:41:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Darenthul
Eru GoEller wrote:

Jumping again, your "special gears" sounds to be exatly what the old probes did, also it adds another layer to scanning, which
in itself have enough of micromanaging without adding another one.


Complication for access to more results isn't needless complication.

Its simple, you wanna go find grav sites and have the ISK/skill investment, you pop in some grav probes and fire them. Instead of finding EVERYTHING in a system, you'll only spot grav sites, including a lot of them that general probes wouldn't have shown otherwise. If you want, you can continue scanning just like you're doing with your general scan probes and no issues, but if someone wants to dive deeper into exploration and increase their chances of finding specific things that general probes won't see, they can pop on special probes.

"I find mining to be an incredibly relaxing thing to do after work. It's like fishing without waking up early. Or cold. But the beer, the beer is the same." - arramdaywalker
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2012-12-12 18:46:44 UTC
Eru GoEller wrote:

Jumping again, your "special gears" sounds to be exatly what the old probes did, also it adds another layer to scanning, which
in itself have enough of micromanaging without adding another one.


Well, I have already explained why it is nothing like the old system, and wouldn't cut out or remove the existing system in any way. It would only add new features to the existing system.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Darenthul
Anstard Armory Inc.
#94 - 2012-12-12 18:50:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Darenthul
Expanded it a little, with a goal note, and a scanning example grid of how it should work.

http://i.imgur.com/7h9uH.png

"I find mining to be an incredibly relaxing thing to do after work. It's like fishing without waking up early. Or cold. But the beer, the beer is the same." - arramdaywalker
cynthia greythorne
Blue Cat Instrumentality
#95 - 2012-12-12 19:29:48 UTC
I would not mind at all improvements to the scanning system. I find it to be tedious and slightly frustrating as it currently devised.
As for moving most asteroids to hidden belts, would that not mean that some systems would be sometimes bereft of anything worth mining? Systems in which one has established excellent relations with a particular corporation in order to achieve so-called perfect refining? And perhaps the next system, and the one after that would also be empty of anything but elementary Veldspar and Scordite. I realise that one could mine in the system that finally has a worthwhile hidden belt and then transport all the minerals to one's preferred station, but that seems to be a tiresome complication. Worse would be the system in which there are no stations at all in which to store one's gleanings, no matter how temporarily.

I would also be concerned by the crowds that would appear at each hidden belt. If twenty systems in a constellation of 35 systems were empty, the miners that are currently spread out across those 35 systems would be concentrated at just 15 sites? That is, unless the number of hidden belts were to be considerably increased, as yes, as has been suggested. But increase their number too much, and the whole exercise would seem to devolve into just a rather pointless exercise in needless complexity.

If such a scheme were to be enacted, I suspect that I would just pay someone to tell me where they are mining rather than going through all the fuss and bother of scanning down a hidden belt and changing ships, no matter how easy hidden belt scanning were to be transformed.

I am not opposed, really, but the scheme would present us with many changes, some of which appear to be of dubious value.
Dr Sirius
Clone Arrangers
#96 - 2012-12-12 19:36:32 UTC
I'm entirely in support of this. Remove belts and make them randomly spawned and needing to be scanned to find them.

Best thing about this idea - it would %$^& up the bots for a long time
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#97 - 2012-12-12 19:36:52 UTC
I for one completely agree that all mining belts, including ice belts, should be converted into randomized grav belts that must be scanned down.

And CCP should jump on this asap.
Just as soon as they convert moon goo to no longer be found at static moons but only in these new randomized grav belts.
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2012-12-12 19:38:35 UTC
I ask again, why do mining spots have to be grav ones in particular and why is everyone so obsessed with gravimetric anomalies?

What is wrong with having it purely random type for mining spots specifically?

The way I see it, the only thing that you have to do is add new types of anomalies that happen to be made to mine in. That is all. As for what type it has to be, who cares? Have all 4 types. The only thing that could vary between them is amount of minerals. As far as everything else, it is just a matter of changing a few variables here and there. EVE already pretty much have everything that is required for this to happen in place anyway.

That way it won't matter if a new player cannot scan down gravimetrics. That player will still have easier types to scan down and the yield/type marginal is once again a mere matter of playing around with numbers until something sticks.
Casirio
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2012-12-12 19:42:31 UTC
ok i have only mined like 10 minutes in my whole eve career and it was the boringist thing ever. I think mining should be a mini game, like scanning.. where you have to direct your laser on a big asteroid and chip away at it, finding the hidden good bits of ore that can be worth a lot of isk or something. That would be great.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#100 - 2012-12-12 19:53:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Keep your filthy crap sites from polluting the scanning system or make it so, that such sites are ship scanner sites. That way every noob can find them and every explorer can filter them out immediately without having to waste time to scan them.


Yes, I know, let's take the easy-to-acquire minerals that are too easy to acquire and make them just as easy to acquire by making them a mouse-click away to find. Roll

Let me reiterate: I scanned my first grav site on my second day. Noobs can find them too. And there is also an "ignore result" option on your scanning UI. Learn how to scan.

And I spent like 2 weeks trying to scan down anything other than a wormhole.

YOU got lucky.
That doesn't maean that it's the same for everyone. YOU are one person out of a few hundred thousand; your experience doesn't constitute what can be expected as an overall experience.


And I disagree with the OP. There's no reason to move people from the general game world in such a way or extent.

I'd actually like to see more persistance in sites, and for sites to function more like low sec. Admittedly, most people would be against the later.