EVE General Discussion

It's been under 24 hours since CCP Soundwave's last post, so a crazy idea maybe that he's gone to do some work with the rest of the people in his team about things that have come up in this thread and then maybe... I don't know, gone home to bed?

@ CCP SOUNDWAVE

1) Fix Plexing. There are a lot of broken mechanics about Plexing currently, the Pirate Faction bullshit I mentioned earlier, the fact that it is pointless, the fact it gives no LP Reward, etc. Fixing Plexes is the key to fixing FW, this should be your priority objective. When we go back to fighting in Plexes as opposed to fighting at gates and stations, it'll fix a lot of the complaints about Blobbing, Hot - Drops, outside interference that people have with the current state of FW.

2) You proclaim that FW is a place for "people to dip their toes in the world of PvP" but that is not the way it is at all. The NPC Corps are completely broken. New players have a terrible experience in them and don't learn how to PvP because they don't get to PvP with the main fleets of Militia except for a few brave FCs who pick up Xs in General Militia. You need to change the way new players are introduced into Militia (eliminate NPC Corp and force them into Player Corps is a decent idea) or you need to change the label of FW as being a place for new players.

3) Don't give us new zones to fight in, fix the zones that we have. Expanding HighSec to standard FW Combat will simply thin the crowd out even more. Part of the reason I love FW is because the whole front is contained in a single region, a few constellations, a few key systems. There is no 30 jump roams going on, if you want a fight, you go one or two jumps over to the enemy's main systems and find them there.

@ The Rest of Us in this Thread

Ignore Pandemic Legion's attempts to troll. This isn't about Pandemic Legion. This is about Faction Warfare; about us. If he wants to provide actual ideas, thats fine, but giving his trolling recognition in the thread is detracting from the purpose of the thread and making it harder for CCP Soundwave to pick out the good ideas.

my 2cents.

1. Highg-sec navy should stay or else high sec trade hubs will be camped. New militia members ganked in they newly fitted t1 frigs and they will leave militia. Its pretty easy to fight in enemy high sec now if u know how to do it but the NPC navy prevents gate and station camping which imo is good.

2. No need to ban supers from low-sec. I think EVE doesnt need any restricions of that kind. It should be as "open" as possible (u may laugh at my english :) ). PL presence in Ama area is great. They deliver more targets and prevent FW blobing. FW is great arena of small gang solo now. Thank u PL.

3. Faction NPC corp station guns in militia "owned" systems (TLF for example) should open fire at enemy militia but they should allow them to dock with 50% shield 50% cap penalty at undock. That would mean less staion camping. Im sure every1 saw what was happaning at Auga 3rd which was camped 23/7 (Huola 24 imperial is capmed as well, i know that ). Fresh unexperienced militia members ganked in their frigs got frustrated and left. That would allow to make such stations safer allowing them to grow into low-sec trade hubs for militia members.

4. Faction frigs leveled with AF. No more drams in minor plexes.

5. If u look at militia kb ull recognize that there are less then 100 pilot names. Rest of militia members just farms LP from FW lv4 missions. I make ISK not in FW missions so it easy for me to say it but lower the LP income from FW missions or get rid of the missions. Give more LP for 1.killing enemy militia, 2. taking plexes, 3.defending plexes, 4.taking over a system.

6. Plexes may be more diverse. Minor-1 , Minor-5, Minor-unrestriced, would allow to enter 1 pilot from both sides, up to 5, or unlimited number on both sides. I like the idea of alarm visible to militia membres in constelation/system informing about a plex being taken.

7. Minor plexes have to be doable solo. Spy-paranoia prevented new militia members from getting into a good corp. They have to have a chance of making ISK/LP from plexing solo, work for their name and look for a corp.

Of course EvE isn't a level playing field, and I'm glad you agree that you ought to be able to build Super Caps where they can be used.

I haven't read the entire thread yet, so apologies for any double-posting or no not including previously made arguments. I'll catch up soon though and will post again...

Disclaimer: I have been in FW for a relatively short time pretty soon after it launched. Back then there were mostly medium-sized blobs (50 players or so) and it was entertaining for a while, but got old pretty fast. Missed any incentive to engange in small numbers to have an actual fight develop instead of others jumping into us, lag lag, shoot a couple shots, lag lag, dead. (yes I know, lags with fleets that size won't happen anymore, but you also wouldn't get fleets of that size in FW together nowadays from what I read)



This would have a pretty huge impact! It would change FW to be basically a normal war. It would most likely stop being about low-sec (if the rest stays the same at least, let's hope it doesn't!) and move more to Hubs and the like, be more about station games there trying to catch people unprepared instead of trying to find others also looking for a fight in the "designated areas".

Outside of FW I'm very much in favor of this though. The current standing/navy mechanic is quite unfair to Gallente/Minmatar for those that want to do normal missions against other facions (or have done so in the past before they knew any better). Why? Because Jita happens to be Caldari space. Most people have to (or at least want to) go there every once in a while.

So this is a dilemma now, and it would just turn to a different dilemma if this was changed.
Now/Before change: Joining FW means it's impossible to go to jita for any market activity, because of navy. Even after leaving FW my standing with caldari will probably be low enough that they'd shoot me then too.
After change: I can always go there, but joining FW means I can be shot by the opposing side pretty much everywhere, including in my home system while doing something carebar-y.
So in both there are pretty strong incentives not to join FW (which I assume we're trying to get rid of I presume), but all in all removing the navies will be the better solution in my opinion.

On a different note: FW item Requests: I want my militia to roll out onto the field completely pimped out in Faction Navy Gear!

Improve some gear.
1. Make lower tier navy faction cruisers worth owning. (Exeqeror Navy Issue, etc..).
2. Increase speed of faction navy drones to their T2 counterparts.

Add some gear.
3. Create a Faction Navy Destroyer and Battlecruiser (yes I'm dreaming).
4. Seed the FW LP store with cheap meta-4 mods (Fed navy equivalent of modal light neutron blasters for example) of all mods. You want T2=0.0, meta-level = low sec? This is how you do it!
5. Create Fed Navy Drone Link Augmentors, Drone Navigation Computers, etc... You know drones need some love.

Make existing gear affordable enough so I can use it in combat.
6. Reduce the tag requirements of the current empire faction navy mods. I want to roll into a fight with Fed Navy Heavy Nuetron Blasters fitted with Fed Navy Mag Stabs!

Agreed.

I think the important thing to remember about farming is that we're all going to do it as long as there's isk and its still fun. I am more than willing to say I farm faction warfare missions, because they are the most lucrative form of income I have access to, and they offset the cost of PvP.

The reason I have no shame in saying this is that there isn't a single time that I've set out to do a round of missions that I haven't engaged in PvP along the way, even if its purely games of cat and mouse, outrunning, evading, and sometimes confronting your attackers.

Bombers have always been my ship of choice (anyone can see my lossmails to know this, no secrets there), though I don't use an Inty, I just speed tank the aggro myself. Even if I'm solo farming, the fun for me is the challenge of fighting an NPC fleet in the most fragile ship in the game, while being chased by sometimes groups of war targets. It's dangerous, you'll lose ships every time you make a single mistake, but there is great satisfaction in knowing that you've managed to survive against the odds, complete your objectives, and come home with a pocket full of cash.

There is great fun when you're in a system full of WT's chasing you, you have three missions to do, and you can cloak past accel gates, get in there, complete the mission, and get out before they realize that you've snuck past them. And than do it again. And again, taunting the dramiels and slicers with a kill thats forever just out of reach. When they finally get me, they've earned it.

To me, this is a form of PvP even though I'm engaging in what is considered whoring/farming missions. I'm entertained, the WT's are entertained, there is real risk as the offset for the rewards.

All this to say, I dont see missions as necessarily broken, there has to be a substantial income source for militia pilots if we are expected to pew pew daily in support of our factions.

The pilots who actually PvP on the frontlines are not getting absurdly rich off this, we burn through this isk as fast as we make it. The problem are the huge number of alts that fill up the NPC militia corps and farm missions while refusing to plug in to a player corp who they can fleet with as well.

TL: DR - Its not the money that can be made off the missions (or plexes if the rewards are shifted there), or the fact that they can be done solo, its the lack of oversight over those who join general militia with an alt, farm faction gear which should be the unique reward for the militia pilots, flood the market and hurt the only viable living most milita PvPers have, but never actually contribute to the PvP scene.

Re move the bunker bash, and make all the faction station conquerable.

This would give a system meaning allowing only owner's of sytem to dock. + agents loss / gained

If alliance are allowed to join fw. then dont remove fw navy in high sec. make them think more about who they side with ie jita / amarr hubs.

Fw navy needs balance.. ie amarr navy shud have neuts. tracking and hit harder then it does.

Use Fw missions to differnace rather then sitting at aplex for 15 + mins. This would spread the warfare out more then just lets sit in 1 system.
This get rid of the spawn at dt.

The poison pill is a great idea, and here's why. The main thing a poison pill does is force a resolution to the conflict. Either you complete mission with no opposition, fight and win, fight and die, or leave in defeat. If you don't want to get griefed while running your 10 missions for the day, then call for backup, or run them with a PvP gang that can fight off whoever is trying to grief you (which will lead to nice gang fights in the end).

Edit: BTW forcing a resolution to a conflict inside FW plexes is the main challenge to FW as well. Oftentimes the winner of the conflict has to sit on the button for 27+ minutes to secure his victory. Fortunately for all militias have guys with alts who like doing that stuff.

It will be easier to grief mission running alts, but they'll have some defence: 1) They will wait to open up a mission until you are long gone, 2) They will ship up to Tengus or other OP ships that can easily cap a mission (This is good. More shinies roaming low sec is good) or 3) leave and go complete the 10 other missions he has taken (which is what many people do already).

The regular pvp crew will also have many counters: 1) they can wait to open the mission when you leave, 2) they can ship up to OP ships, or 3) they can have their gang waiting next door so when the griefer warps in on you, you can point him and then nail him, 4) they can fly a pvp-fit ship and not enter the mission (griefer lands on gate and dies), etc...

BTW, I've lost over 50 HACs in missions because the fights in and near them are fun and challenging (yes I suck). But we've also used the missions as bait on occasion: open it up, get point on griefer at mission entrance, and call in support. I've even gotten some solo kills against griefers who have tried to kill me inside the mission because you don't need to go full PvE to complete them. Also, L1 through L3 missions can easily be solo'd by PvP ships (if you want ship limited combat).

I've also had 80+ kills of mission running stealth bomber alts (mostly because they were surfing the web while completing their mission afk). I would like to force them into a more pvp-like posture if CCP were to give me the tools.