EVE General Discussion

Cutting the Net mission has a poison pill, for example. If I try to engage a mission runner and he bails, I go to the container, pick up the documents. He cannot complete his mission - I win. In every other mission, the mission runner bails, safes up, plays some other game for 20 minutes and then comes back and completes it after I have left.

BTW, if CCP implements a poison pill feature, it would be nice if the poison pill could be returned to any station rather than having to go all the way back to the agent. The FW griefer also ought to be able to turn it in for a very minor LP reward (make the reward too big and it'll be exploited).

EEEwwwww.....I hate cutting the net. In that case, consider me a "no" vote for more crap like that....

I think "griefers" should be able to disrupt mission runners by chasing them off or killing them, but a simple gimmick that prevents them from ever completing it due to an item seems too overpowered.

If every mission had these, you could effectively follow targets and deny missions, not by outmatching them but beating them to the can, forcing them to wait out the entire mission expiration before being able to grab more missions.

I've you've made the mission runner target take a 20 minute break to play another game, you've successfully disrupted his income source in a significant way.

FW missions are lucrative in terms of isk/hour. Every 20 minute timeout you provide the target, reduces this isk/hour ratio drastically. If you're chasing targets around and discouraging missioning, you're killing his income and hitting him in the wallet same same as if you blew up a ship. By reducing his isk/hour ratio, you're killing the advantage that he has by running the privileged missions over other forms of income like level 4's, mining, or exploration.

If the majority of militia pilots rely on FW missions to fund their PvP, being able to make hits on their income through mission interception is a totally legit strategy, but making it so that WT's can force you to wait 12 hours every time they best you simply means that too many people won't be able to run them at all.

None of us have the free time to take an hour to pick up a stack of missions, spend another hour getting themselves locked out of the mission missions beacuse of WT's, and than spend another 12 hours waiting for the offer to lapse. We'd never get anything done.

20 minute time outs are more than painful enough. Poison pills could kill the incentive to go out and mission at all.

I see your point on somebody speed tanking to the can. One way to resolve that concern is to not allow the can to be open if the mission runner is still on grid.

Also, 20 minutes was an exaggeration. I usually hang out for five minutes and then get bored and leave (it's as bad as sitting on a plex timer). The mission runner oftentimes goes on to the next mission and then comes back to complete it or waits me out.

(BTW, Cutting the Net is a breeze and can be done in a mwd ishkur (for Gallente). The only reason people don't run it is that the LP is really lower than regular missions, and you have to return the documents to your agent.)

and what is to stop PL from joining their alliance to a faction? your idea wouldn't change anything. besides PL would just bridge in a fleet of tengu's or even the new tier 3 bcs to whoop your ass.

I still have to use 3 Sensor boosters to be able to target in a mission. Locking a battleship rat can take up to 40 seconds in some scenarios due to damps. Remove all NPCs ECM/damps and reduce their dps to such **** that I can bring a pvp ship rather than a pve one if this "poison pill" concept is to have any merit. Everyone that wants to make isk making a pvp activity just want to gank pve fitted ships with their pvp fitted ship. Mixing pvp and pve has already proven to be a bad idea (see FW plexing).

I consider all insurgents alts of the tyrant Shakor!

Yes, it will impact legitimate runners. But one must assume that they are accustomed to pew and can thus just as easily do the missions in a proper ship (I know the Vagabond is insanely effective for you lot .. better/faster than bombers).
The impact for crews like AUTOZ will be next to nothing as you can just get into the habit of picking up a few missions each before going on a roam .. complete them instead of sitting on a gate/undock waiting for one of us silly Amarr .. you'll be surprised how effective small-gang FW missioning can be *pop*pop*pop*

Excellent point, and I sympathize with those in other militias who have ewar being used on them that makes mission running a royal pain in the ass. I haven't run missions for other militias, but I hear its pretty awful.

I won't pretend the Minmatar don't have it easy, its almost cute when the Amarr spam my Hound with 27 tracking disruptors. The fact that you are having to fit multiple SeBo's to mission run is utter horseshit.

Tweaking the NPC behavior in missions is a fantastic way to fix up faction warfare and make it more balanced, and more fun.

Missions should absolutely be designed to be run in PvP - fit ships, you are spot on in this observation.

The currenty imbalances that are a direct result of sloppy, inconsistent AI difficulties from militia to miliita have large, noticeable market indicators that things are out of control.

CCP Soundwave would be well served to look at the prices of the faction gear being farmed and sold on the market, to see that Minmatar LP rewards flood the market with much more frequency than those of other factions, whos prices are much higher comparatively.

The fact that the market clearly indicates a preference for the farming of one factions missions over another is also a fantastic demonstration of the sheer number of alt-farmers who only enlist for the purposes of creating and selling gear. If the missions were of similar difficulty in scope, I think the natural balance between player RP preference would be evident in seeing people enlist in a variety of militias, and run a variety of missions, not just loading up minmatar because their cake is tastier and is easier to obtain.

I don't quite follow - are you suggesting that AUTOZ don't go out and run missions in gangs and prefer to station camp? What a daft suggestion. Apologies if I'm misunderstanding you - but really, AUTOZ activity is pretty regular and not that difficult to observe and see what we've been up to. Your implications couldn't be farther from the truth.

Running missions in gangs is the BEST way to run them, in terms of overall fun level. Its just unfortunate the mechanics don't encourage this more. I think that being able to run missions solo should still be viable, but a definite challenge and the overall design should make running them in gangs the most efficient method to earn income, to encourage this kind of gang work.

I speak as the dirty (currently in fw) pirate i am.
be carefull here.
i think this could be a good idea whit npc customs but not for this.

The current mechanics are ok, but they might even need a boost.
I already now se fellow fw pies like myself perma tanking navys whit simple canes and drakes, ganking fw newbies outside stations that didnt know they should check local before undocking.

there is a reason why us pirates are forced out to low sec. we can never be enforced, only kept at bay, NPC are stupied, and players are often to weak.

Currently navys and players together is just that. a force that keep us at bay.
But if you removed them, ach poor fw newbies..
I think you pretty soon would find alt boosted SEBO camps at every main gate that would be practically invulnerable becasue no one could light a cyno on us.

so be carefull before you unleash our evil and let our alts go rampant in empire.

My problem with allowing alliances into FW has nothing to do with the uber blobs (we all know thats what it would become) my problem is with the income aspect of it. FW remains one of the best ways to make isk in this game short of being a tycoon. Caldari already has a problem with corps that are there solely for farming missions (including a number of well known alt corps for the bigger alliances). This can easily be seen by the price of Navy Scorps and Scorpians in recent months... Once news about the impending fix to FW was released Navy scorp prices dove 20 to 30 mil and scorpian prices jumped 10 mil, there where even a few times in Jita where there seriously was not a single scorpian for sale... I say if you really wanna fix FW create a mechanic that would kick out the carbears... On paper Caldari milita out numers the other militas by 2k members... in practice we are probably one of the smallest of the militias...

Allowing more people into FW would kill the market far more than it already has esp[ecially since the ships that FW provides are hardly ever used in combat (navy scorps and ravens) in fact the only faction ships seen regularly in FW are the faction frigates, their needs to be a new ship that can be priced just right so that its expensive enough to make isk but low enough that you dont kill your KB every time you loose one, i think Faction BC's would really fill that void since most of our fleets are BC fleets anyways.


P.S. sorry if what i said has already been said.... too many pages to read everything :)