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Dont change the 2/10 plexes!

First post First post
Author
Kane Rizzel
NovaKane Incorporated
You've got RED on you
#401 - 2013-01-15 16:56:33 UTC
Didn't realise this was hostile...

[URL=http://novakaneinc.blogspot.co.uk]A Pirate's Perspective[/URL] [URL=http://community.eveonline.com/community/fansites.asp]Official EVE Online Fan Site[/URL]

Turgesson
Gorillaz In The Mist
#402 - 2013-01-15 17:28:12 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Guys I appreciate you're really frustrated, but making the thread even more hostile than it already is isn't going to attract the developer attention you're looking for.


With all due respect, history disagrees with you and even your presence on this page is proof that it will.

Remember it was CCP's decision to not give anyone a heads up that this change was going to come with retribution so we could participate in testing and suggest things before any KNOWN harm was done. I would say almost all of us opened our patch notes to see what goodies we got to only see our home systems made into ghost towns.

I've added a bio to direct people to your forums with the reason they are being mass murdered in high sec and loosing their only possesions in New Eden. This isn't meant as a hostile act against CCP it's just presure and numbers to make our end of the metrics matter. I don't want to be hostile to any developer willing to at least meet us halfway with returned plexes in LOW SEC. We can deal with drop rates, types of loot, ways to gain keys/unlocking the gates full time, variations in the respawn timers, etc..after they are returned and work on them until we are both satisfied.

You don't have an unreasonable bunch here but a simple "NO, now let's talk about no loot arenas" isn't going to fly.
MrDiao
Perkone
Caldari State
#403 - 2013-01-16 02:09:41 UTC
Turgesson wrote:
with returned plexes in LOW SEC. We can deal with drop rates, types of loot, ways to gain keys/unlocking the gates full time, variations in the respawn timers, etc..after they are returned and work on them until we are both satisfied.
.


The answer should be "No". Exploration system should do what it supposed to do, if you want to encourage low-sec people's activities, introduce another idea called "low-sec static deadspace to encourage low-sec pvp", not by abusing the exploration complex system, especially for what aims at helping the newbies to start the game.
Laktos
Perkone
Caldari State
#404 - 2013-01-16 03:13:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Laktos
MrDiao wrote:
Turgesson wrote:
with returned plexes in LOW SEC. We can deal with drop rates, types of loot, ways to gain keys/unlocking the gates full time, variations in the respawn timers, etc..after they are returned and work on them until we are both satisfied.
.


The answer should be "No". Exploration system should do what it supposed to do, if you want to encourage low-sec people's activities, introduce another idea called "low-sec static deadspace to encourage low-sec pvp", not by abusing the exploration complex system, especially for what aims at helping the newbies to start the game.


Oh good, another person who doesn't live in low-sec and has no idea what they're talking about.

Just fyi, the old 2/10's were a fantastic place for newbies to get into PVP and provided a loot drop that didn't take months of training to obtain, all at the same time.

Latest PVP Video: Perseverance

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Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#405 - 2013-01-16 07:46:42 UTC
Goon talking against abusing game mechanics - priceless.

Invalid signature format

Volstruis
Mise en Abyme
#406 - 2013-01-16 08:50:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Volstruis
CCP Goliath wrote:
Guys I appreciate you're really frustrated, but making the thread even more hostile than it already is isn't going to attract the developer attention you're looking for.


I think you'll find ignoring people and trying to inspire meaningless debate will lead to increased hostility ... This is 'serius business' TM after all :)

If the answer is no, we are not putting them back, we've told you why, htfu, then just say it. I don't understand why we need to lobby for developer attention or discuss random 'never-to-be-implemented' solutions.

The threadnought wants things the way they were. The code is written, it is in a backup. Are you guys going to consider putting it back or not?
Robinton Jax
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#407 - 2013-01-16 09:35:36 UTC
Laktos wrote:


Just fyi, the old 2/10's were a fantastic place for newbies to get into PVP and provided a loot drop that didn't take months of training to obtain, all at the same time.


Thats how I got started 1v1 pvping, fit out a dirt cheap PvP Rifter and went out. I would get some PvP and learn something, or a drop. Better than running 4's like a robot.
Alex Medvedov
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#408 - 2013-01-16 12:59:24 UTC
As the long time frigate pilot and frequent 2/10 plex visitor I would like to add a few words to this topic.

First the idea of simple accelaration gates which was proposed by CCP will not work, as was pointed out already, because there will be no incentives for pilots to frequently visit or more importanly to stay for a some time in that empty pocket.

Let me demonstrate how the pirates think. Nobody sane likes the camping - regardless if you are about to camp acceleration gate, gate or a station. So if you are on the roam you jump into system and check your scanner - have you found no ships around? You will move on. Thats the problem if tose empty pockets in space, nobody will be staying there just because theres small chance once a day some bored dude might come along.

The plexes on the other had were different.

1) To complete them the visitor had to spend some time there and therefore he created a window of opportunity for any pvp pilot lucky enough to be around.

2) The plexes were worth visiting even if you were the only one in local - you were able to do the plex, gain some money and wait for any opposition to show up.

3) The plexes were attracting not only pirates but the pve playeyers as well, which in turn provided the wider target selection for pirates and provided sometimes the first taste of EVE PVP combat for pvers.

Truth is that the plexes could be camped, the plex mechanics was rather imperfect, but still they were able to drag some more people to low-sec, especially in areas like Molden Heath where 4 of them were relatively close to to each other. And thats preciselly what low sec needs - more activity! And more activity needs more opportunities to do something!

Can really see how would the reintroduction of 1/10 and 2/10 plexes into low sec brake anything ballance wise. Those plex rewards are not so high after all.
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#409 - 2013-01-16 14:20:21 UTC
MrDiao wrote:
Turgesson wrote:
with returned plexes in LOW SEC. We can deal with drop rates, types of loot, ways to gain keys/unlocking the gates full time, variations in the respawn timers, etc..after they are returned and work on them until we are both satisfied.
.


The answer should be "No". Exploration system should do what it supposed to do, if you want to encourage low-sec people's activities, introduce another idea called "low-sec static deadspace to encourage low-sec pvp", not by abusing the exploration complex system, especially for what aims at helping the newbies to start the game.


So instead of putting these newbies into a potentially exciting low sec pve scenario where they could meet people who can teach them things when they have the right attitude they should be put in direct competition with the lifetime carebear explorers and just play race to the loot in high sec where they can't take any preemptive aggressive action?

Don't think for a minute just because someone is a newbie that they couldn't smoke a 4yr old carebear in a low sec static. Let's not make believe moving these sites to high sec exploration did anything for newbs....it actually hurt the truly new players worse than us.
Toterra
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#410 - 2013-01-16 20:34:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Toterra
Looking through the CSM minutes from December.... I can't find any mention of this. Anyone else?

(I could miss it though as it it over one hundred pages of text!)

Edit: The tiny mention of this issue has been found (see below). Doesn't look good.
Etuura Zellis
Scarlet Corsairs
#411 - 2013-01-16 20:52:21 UTC
Did a keyword search and found nothing, perhaps it was deemed NDA? Could've swore Hans had said he brought it up.
Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#412 - 2013-01-16 21:00:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Sugar Kyle
He said he chased Devs and talked to them. It was not part of the scheduled events which is what the notes are. I'm sure that there were plenty of side discussions for various smaller topics.

When the patch notes came out and the winter summit topics were put up there was no place for us to request more information on this or a review. The Summit is rather time constricted and the topic did not have a time slot for it.

Edited cuz Wrong:

Page 63, last paragraph, first sentence.

Hans took a moment to remind the team that the removal of the DED Level 1 and 2 static complexes in
low-sec was a huge loss for the PvP community, and said this may have the potential to bring back some
of these fights via increased belt traffic.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.

Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#413 - 2013-01-16 21:10:25 UTC
Quote:
Hans took a moment to remind the team that the removal of the DED Level 1 and 2 static complexes in low-sec was a huge loss for the PvP community, and said this may have the potential to bring back some of these fights via increased belt traffic.


Bolded "this" being Tags4Sec which were discussed atm. Funny thing: nobody said a word in response to Hans' remark.

Invalid signature format

Kane Rizzel
NovaKane Incorporated
You've got RED on you
#414 - 2013-01-16 23:53:03 UTC
INCREASED BELT TRAFFIC?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...





HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[URL=http://novakaneinc.blogspot.co.uk]A Pirate's Perspective[/URL] [URL=http://community.eveonline.com/community/fansites.asp]Official EVE Online Fan Site[/URL]

Turgesson
Gorillaz In The Mist
#415 - 2013-01-17 01:11:50 UTC
Maybe next time when Hans brings up a topic it'll get more attention than a confused look around the room...


After reading the beginning of the minutes something just doesn't make any sense. If you have a feature that caters to all 3 tiers of the layered model for customer experience why in the world would you remove it? I honestly don't think the people who made this decision understand anything about it and thought adding more sites to scan down in high sec would capture more short term customers while at the same time underestimating the amount of long term loyal customers who enjoy this feature.

I'd write more on the subject but my gcc timer is up and I'm allowed out of the penalty box...here venture venture.



(I was going to step it up and start smartbombing all the afk retrievers around but why help the overmining problem by default. Leave those alone.)
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#416 - 2013-01-17 11:31:01 UTC
If hans is still following the thread, could you tell us what went on?
Toterra
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#417 - 2013-01-17 18:06:50 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Guys I appreciate you're really frustrated, but making the thread even more hostile than it already is isn't going to attract the developer attention you're looking for.

Reading through this thread I am amazed at how respectful it is. There are no threats, no raging, just a persistent (mostly) polite reinforcement that removing these sites destroys an emergent gameplay mechanic enjoyed by low-sec players. Your post above, however, is (aside from some trolls) probably the single most hostile post in this entire thread! Yes we are trying to attract developer attention in the very forum that was setup to discuss features and ideas. Even though we have mostly been ignored we have continued to politely push this topic because it is important to us.

Please CCP, engage with your community and don't talk down to us.

Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#418 - 2013-01-18 00:21:58 UTC
Would sending a few shapely ladies with loose morals up to Iceland for a cake and blumpkin party be nice enough to get these back? If it's a lady in charge maybe I can come up and give some good sloppy head?...I'll bet Hans didn't try THAT!

Screw developer attention at this point I want to speak with the Unifex person at the top of the heap...these underlings move too slow and are slowly ruining your product.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#419 - 2013-01-18 11:05:08 UTC
Goliath, the reason people are getting mad is because I made this thread literally right after patch notes came out, which was the first time we were told about this. This change wasnt on SISI, wasnt announced earlier. (as a side note, why would any change go live without testing?)

It took nearly THREE WEEKS (18 days) for a dev (you) to come in and say "oh yeah, we have seen this thread"

It took over FIVE WEEKS for a dev (Fozzie) to come in an actually explain something, and fozzie wasnt even involved in this change!

This is barely even about the 2/10 plexes anymore, but more about a perceived lack of CCP response. We STILL havent heard from the dev who made this decision, and its been 2 months.
Vincent R'lyeh
Screaming Hayabusa
Neo-Bushido Movement
#420 - 2013-01-18 12:58:24 UTC
Who with leet artistic skills wants to whip up a nice 'Bring back the 2/10's in Low-Sec' A4 poster which can be scattered liberally around the Veto London Meet on 9th Feb?

I have deliberately developed an air of cynicism that I originally intended to make me appear somewhat louche and caddish but actually comes across as irritable hostility combined with the unspoken threat of sudden violence.....