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Team Avatar and the future of our prototype

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Cpt Tirel
Institute For Continuous Glory
#3001 - 2013-11-29 15:27:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Cpt Tirel
Trii Seo wrote:

For now CQ is an artsywork SP module that runs, from the looks of it, completely clientside. CCP would likely have to recode the whole thing from scratch and that takes devtime - one that could be put elsewhere.


It is FIS that needs a recode, a huge one. EVE has become like old silverware and every time CCP shines it up the players complain that it is not shiny enough. And it isnt, probably never will be because the base game is old.
FIS probably cannot be "fixed" unless they make a new game, instead they made WIS, a newer less limited game within an old game, but old grandmother-like people like you would rather have them continue scrubbing that ancient silverware.Roll
Naomi Tichim
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
#3002 - 2013-11-29 17:21:40 UTC
Inir Ishtori wrote:
I resubscribed recently and promptly checked out the new mobile depot for it's "immersion factor", so to say. Sadly, there was hardly one, in my opinion.

Looking at the depot, i thought: wouldn't it be cool to have you own little home with a spectacular view at all the pretty nebulas - from the viewpoint of an avatar/person and not of a ship-entity? Literally through a window into space.

And then it hit me - all the small fragments and pieces of "proper", "meaningful" WiS are already there. We have the mobile depot to store your stuff and refit your ship while you are away from a station or a starbase and maybe somewhere deep into Nullsec. We already have a somewhat working prototype for walking in a room and interaction with objects in 3rd person view. We have got a new ship with some serious firepower to allow players sneaking into low and null for ratting, exploration or pvp more easily. There is also some general focus on exploration lately, with various new loots.
And there is constant demand for some vanity items and avatar decorations.

Putting these fragments together creates a logical(from my standpoint, at least) evolution of the WiS concept - one that serves a game purpose involving direct interaction with FiS content.


Therefore my suggestion:

Restart WiS in a smaller, more controllable environment, that does not carry the burden of a gigantic vision about hundreds of wildly emoting players on your screen at once - or even the horrors at Jitat 4-4 - and gigantic, varying station environments.

Start with a personal outpost - not unlike a mobile depot - with a room, similar to the current WiS one and a big window into space to remind you of what game you are playing Blink.
Allow players to dock to it and store 2 ships there, limiting it to the cruiser size. Allow players to decorate their home - look at Mass Effect captain's quarters for a very simple way. It would be already enough for a start.
Create some useful holoscreens with some interesting information for the 3rd view: for example display of PI reactor time, production etc.
And now allow players to invite one(1) another person into their home, if they keep one of the two hangar slots free to dock to.


From here it's easy to slowly go up in size:

A 10 people outpost for small corporation, stores 20 ships, may be decorated. Several rooms(where you are able to encounter all other inhabitants inside at the same time) and at it's heart the war room where you can use a map tool to mark places and discuss ship movements etc in a graphical way.
This outpost would be hard to locate and, compared to a moon tower, would be ideal for groups that do not like to see their installation being scouted and hotdropped by 100 capitals on their first day in nullsec.


Next would be a 30-40 people trading outpost/casino/amusement park involving some sabotage, wild 3rd person shooting, FiS pewpewing and bank robbing - and all sorts of profitable ingame buisiness opportunities.

I would like to write more as i have a couple of ideas on fairly easy money for CCP, but this post is already a bit too big and i just wanted to see if there is general interest in the ideas above. If you liked what you've read and found that interesting, just comment here or like this post and i will add more details on hows and whys later.


I like it. I'd suggest that corporate offices in stations should get some of the same functionality.

Improving Archaeology
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#3003 - 2013-11-29 18:39:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Trii Seo wrote:
Arduemont wrote:

This already happens in sov warfare. What exactly is your point?

You do realize it doesn't, right? There's this wonderful new thing called TiDi that's been around for, I don't know, two years that prevents just this?

So why then, was there more than 1000 Tribe/Test/etc people sitting on titans unable to jump in when Goons polished off Test Alliance HQ? Hm? And that time the nodes were all pre-reinforced ready for the fight. In big fights, local is regularly capped. Jita is almost perma-capped at 2000.

TiDi is amazing, but it is not the be all and end all of lag management.

Trii Seo wrote:

For now CQ is an artsywork SP module that runs, from the looks of it, completely clientside. CCP would likely have to recode the whole thing from scratch and that takes devtime - one that could be put elsewhere.

Flying In Space has many lingering issues - POSes affect us all and are terrible. Sov affects many and discourages many from sov warfare (because it's either being in a 200+ man blob or grinding a structure for hours.) and those things alone are a few good weeks of brainstorming to fix.

Maybe then you should be whining about things that actually are taking up all Eve's dev time, instead of whining in here. Like for example Dust, WoD, Valkyrie and a bunch of mobile apps no one will appreciate.

Cpt Tirel wrote:

EVE has become like old silverware and every time CCP shines it up the players complain that it is not shiny enough. And it isnt, probably never will be because the base game is old.
FIS probably cannot be "fixed" unless they make a new game, instead they made WIS, a newer less limited game within an old game, but old grandmother-like people like you would rather have them continue scrubbing that ancient silverware.Roll


Dat metaphor.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#3004 - 2013-11-29 19:16:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Trii Seo
Arduemont wrote:

So why then, was there more than 1000 Tribe/Test/etc people sitting on titans unable to jump in when Goons polished off Test Alliance HQ? Hm?


I'm not sure, but it might be because they were kind of dead and not sitting on titans. There were only ~2k CFC at peak and local went up to 4k with TEST and Co. around. And no, local doesn't reach cap regularily in big fights.

When it comes to devtime, I could scream - like many others - that I'm a paying customer and I shall demand the rope be pulled my way, no matter what insensible idiocy I happen to be spouting out. Fortunately, above the coders in CCP stand managers and CSM. That actually do things, believe it or not - earlier CCP announced that T3 sub refits won't come in Rubicon. They did.

They know more about time management, company resources and strategy than we do. Sides, while those are CCP products - I do believe they're actually developed by a different team than the one working on EVE.

FiS has its flaws, but it's also the best part of EVE. The base mechanics are solid and the developers are iterating on that ground, which is as it should be - there isn't a single game that allows fights of such varying scale.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#3005 - 2013-11-29 19:24:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Trii Seo wrote:
Arduemont wrote:

So why then, was there more than 1000 Tribe/Test/etc people sitting on titans unable to jump in when Goons polished off Test Alliance HQ? Hm?
That's not true! WAH!


Oh all right, so all the first person accounts I hear from members of Tribe who were actually sitting on titans ready to jump are obviously rubbish and you know best.

As for the "CCP knows best" argument. That used to be a difficult case to argue against... but then there was Incarnageddon, massive lay offs, Dust launch flopping and other such **** ups.

If CCP knows best why do they continually rely on player input on their changes? Answer; because they don't. They rely on what the players want for their development decisions. Which, by the way, is smart.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#3006 - 2013-11-29 19:40:06 UTC
Well then it's a good thing they're ignoring this thread because it's full of literally everything but constructive input so far.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
CCP Aporia
C C P
C C P Alliance
#3007 - 2013-11-29 20:06:37 UTC
CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-:

Friend of walking avatars, currently hibernating until he gets to open that door.
Naomi Tichim
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
#3008 - 2013-11-29 20:09:11 UTC
CCP Aporia wrote:
CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-:


That figures.

Improving Archaeology
Tanthalassa
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3009 - 2013-11-29 20:40:52 UTC
Trii Seo wrote:
When it comes to devtime, I could scream - like many others - that I'm a paying customer and I shall demand the rope be pulled my way, no matter what insensible idiocy I happen to be spouting out. <...>
They know more about time management, company resources and strategy than we do. Sides, while those are CCP products - I do believe they're actually developed by a different team than the one working on EVE.

Maybe it should also occur to you that there're plenty of paying customers here also, here in this very thread about avatar content and everything related to it.

You really think the resources are managed well enough? Wonder what all the other project teams are funded by... Your precious "spaceships only" Eve, which received "oh so much" attention from development team lately (Fozzie and Rise were hired from playerbase directly.)

But it's not like your
Trii Seo wrote:
insensible idiocy I happen to be spouting out
is affecting their decision, but rather CCP's way investing in Dust, WoD and Valkyrie plus whatever other yet unannounced projects. Potentially Eve could be oh so much more even if it were only about spaceships.

But we did pay for Eve, and it's their money now. Their master-plan of people hooked to skill queue online pays well Blink
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#3010 - 2013-11-29 20:56:04 UTC
CCP Aporia wrote:
CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-:


Thankfully they are just a minority.

The Tears Must Flow
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
#3011 - 2013-11-29 21:01:12 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
CCP Aporia wrote:
CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-:


Thankfully they are just a minority.


Strange you would be thankful for a minority of the company being innovative.

wumbo
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#3012 - 2013-11-29 21:04:27 UTC
Eli Green wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
CCP Aporia wrote:
CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-:


Thankfully they are just a minority.


Strange you would be thankful for a minority of the company being innovative.


Second Life already exists.

The Tears Must Flow
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#3013 - 2013-11-29 21:09:38 UTC
CCP Aporia wrote:
CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-:


If I had that kind of money (and faith on CCP) I would hand you 10 million dollars to hire 100 additional devs and put them to work on WiS alone. Roll

The key concept is, additional devs. Spaceship devs may not be the right people to make avatars. Specially if they should be busy with spaceships.

That was the lesson I take from Incarna.

And, as for meaningful avatar gameplay... this thread has shown many times that the definition of "meaningful" should be left to the players willing to pay for WiS.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Anslo
Scope Works
#3014 - 2013-11-29 21:10:58 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Eli Green wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
CCP Aporia wrote:
CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-:


Thankfully they are just a minority.


Strange you would be thankful for a minority of the company being innovative.


Second Life already exists.

Look out guys! We got another edgy badass over here!

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#3015 - 2013-11-29 21:17:58 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Eli Green wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
CCP Aporia wrote:
CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-:


Thankfully they are just a minority.


Strange you would be thankful for a minority of the company being innovative.


Second Life already exists.


Also exists this.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#3016 - 2013-11-29 21:25:42 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Eli Green wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
CCP Aporia wrote:
CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-:


Thankfully they are just a minority.


Strange you would be thankful for a minority of the company being innovative.


Second Life already exists.


Boo Hoo, CCP not going your way, HTFU.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#3017 - 2013-11-29 21:28:25 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Eli Green wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
CCP Aporia wrote:
CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-:


Thankfully they are just a minority.


Strange you would be thankful for a minority of the company being innovative.


Second Life already exists.


Boo Hoo, CCP not going your way, HTFU.


I think you've got it backwards, CCP is going my way.

The Tears Must Flow
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#3018 - 2013-11-29 21:30:38 UTC
CCP Aporia wrote:
CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-:


Thanks for posting, it's nice to know that there's some hope even if it's a long way off.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#3019 - 2013-11-29 21:44:14 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:

I think you've got it backwards, CCP is going my way.


If you were aware of my earlier post you'd understand that I favour both fis and wis development to have equal attention, you however are partisan and favour only fis development. Why would you want to limit an amazing sci fi universe to just one form of meaningful game play?

The fis crowd say that eve is only about spaceships, but that is as stupid as PI players saying that eve is all about planetary interaction when clearly it isn't.

You should come back to this conversation when you can meaningfully demonstrate that you have the IQ to participate.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Broker Agent
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3020 - 2013-11-30 01:03:14 UTC
CCP Aporia wrote:
CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-:


Thank you. It's good to hear some people at CCP still have the dream of a complete sci-fi simulator. It's just a shame management don't think the same way.