These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Crime & Punishment

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Crimewatch is Rubbish
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Pipa Porto
#61 - 2012-10-13 06:38:35 UTC
Jint Hikaru wrote:
loyalanon wrote:

When I first started playing eve, I played due to the nature of eve, and how you are never safe when undocked and you can partake in non-consensual pvp with other players.


"Waaaaaaa, I dont like it when I'm the one the non-consentual pvp happens to."


So let me get this straight.... you love ganking hisec haullers and/or mining barges, "woohoo HTFU stupid bears!!!!" Yet as soon as there is a chance that your actions could receive some retaliation, "its not fair, I dont want any pewpew"

Jeebus, what a massive cry baby!


Right now:
Suicide Ganking means you go GCC and everyone can shoot you.
Having a killright against you means the person you killed can shoot you.
Canflipping allows the victim's corp to shoot you.
Looting from your gank victim allows their corp to shoot you.

How are you making the claim that people who gank or canflip can't be retaliated against?


The problem with Crimewatch 2.0 is that the Suspect Flag removes the possibility of those actions resulting in interesting or meaningful combat. The new Flag-as-Suspect killrights also remove the possibility of becoming interesting.

A system where one side is able to escalate indefinitely at no cost and with no preparation while the other is mechanically barred from escalating at all is not remotely balanced.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Pipa Porto
#62 - 2012-10-13 06:43:24 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Ra Jackson wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Yes, that's kind of what will happen. Most small-scale baiting and flipping is going to disappear, and will instead be replaced by big groups of experienced players who will use such force that your average white knight wouldn't be able to deal with it. Basically, person A steals from a can, person B shoots person A, and then the rest of the alphabet comes in with enough logistics and Vindicators that person B, or anyone who helps him, won't have a chance.


Only person A will be able to shoot person B tho, so what are you talking about?

Person A will have enough logistics to make sure that person B has no chance of killing person A, and even though those logistics will acquire suspect flags, there's going to be to many of them that no one will engage them. On top of that, any remote assistance to person B will also become suspect, and that's where person A's backup combat ships will come into play.

Of course, that's a generalization. Every once in a while you will see two big groups of high-sec hardmen fight each other this way. But it will be a rare event. People like that usually stay away from each other, and would be hesitant to put a few billions' worth of assets at risk for the reward of maybe getting some killmails and maybe looting some T2/faction modules.

The only way to win will become a numbers game. People already rely on numerical superiority as the primary strategy in pvp. With this change, it will become the only viable strategy. The little guys, be they loot thieves or white knights, will have no chance.



You're forgetting the corpmates of the Whiteknight can apply logi without being flagged by anyone, since CCP doesn't want them to get Suspect flags but refuses to allow flagging transfers.

But that doesn't really matter, since all you have to do is bring a point for each Logi then enough DPS (with local tank) to break the initial suspect then work through the logistics ships.

The little guys are absolutely toast, but the hugely organized suspect teams are equally toast.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Marzuq
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#63 - 2012-10-13 07:46:32 UTC
The whole "suspect" system sounds entirely ridiculous. I would advocate an aggression dock prevent timer for logi ships,especially neutral logi. But the way this system works is ridiculous.

Repping a fleetmate who is also in a wardec(not in same corp or alliance as you) with the aggressor. "Suspect flag"

Unwary pilot takes can of goods off station " Suspect flag".

Pilot wants to pvp and takes can of challenger. "suspect flag."

Friend tries to recover loot from friend's wreck. "suspect flag."

This "suspect flag." would've maybe been fine if it were for neutral logistics, but anything else I see is ridiculous.

Oh and the kill right suspect flag is silly too. I'd simply buy my old killright with an alt and go kill myself in a shuttle to avoid it.
Evolution1979
Hull Down Inc.
#64 - 2012-10-13 07:57:29 UTC
Marzuq wrote:
The whole "suspect" system sounds entirely ridiculous. I would advocate an aggression dock prevent timer for logi ships,especially neutral logi. But the way this system works is ridiculous.

Repping a fleetmate who is also in a wardec(not in same corp or alliance as you) with the aggressor. "Suspect flag"

Unwary pilot takes can of goods off station " Suspect flag".

Pilot wants to pvp and takes can of challenger. "suspect flag."

Friend tries to recover loot from friend's wreck. "suspect flag."

This "suspect flag." would've maybe been fine if it were for neutral logistics, but anything else I see is ridiculous.

Oh and the kill right suspect flag is silly too. I'd simply buy my old killright with an alt and go kill myself in a shuttle to avoid it.


You have some valid points there.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#65 - 2012-10-13 08:05:22 UTC
Evolution1979 wrote:
Marzuq wrote:
The whole "suspect" system sounds entirely ridiculous. I would advocate an aggression dock prevent timer for logi ships,especially neutral logi. But the way this system works is ridiculous.

Repping a fleetmate who is also in a wardec(not in same corp or alliance as you) with the aggressor. "Suspect flag"

Unwary pilot takes can of goods off station " Suspect flag".

Pilot wants to pvp and takes can of challenger. "suspect flag."

Friend tries to recover loot from friend's wreck. "suspect flag."

This "suspect flag." would've maybe been fine if it were for neutral logistics, but anything else I see is ridiculous.

Oh and the kill right suspect flag is silly too. I'd simply buy my old killright with an alt and go kill myself in a shuttle to avoid it.


You have some valid points there.

...but more invalid points...

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
#66 - 2012-10-14 01:27:01 UTC
loyalanon wrote:
So I have been reading up on the new Crimewatch updates coming out in the next expansion and so far all I can say is it looks total ****.

Picture 1

Picture 2

What is your take on it?

How can gankers profit from ganking?

lets visit the following scenario -

Player A shoots Player B and player B blows up.

Player B's wreck drops, now when you loot that wreck you are freely attackable by everyone,

CCP have given into the carebears demands and given into the demands of Miners wanting to AFK mine without fear of being ganked by buffing the EHP on all mining barges, with the upcoming crimewatch changes to be implemented this to seems as a way to give in to carebear demands.

They have now pretty much effectively given into remove all forms of unprovoked aggression in high sec.

When I first started playing eve, I played due to the nature of eve, and how you are never safe when undocked and you can partake in non-consensual pvp with other players.

Now it seems that this game while promoting piracy and doing bad deeds to people in-game, it is effectively ruined to cater to the highsec carebears demands of a safer playground for them to mine in. but yet CCP are still promoting it as a Combat Zone that anyone can be a part of.

Whats next? will low sec pvp also be outlawed because carebears cant pvp safely?

While this may seem like a rant, I would appreciate your thoughts on the above. While CCP is a business and needs to make money, they have ruined and lost sight of what makes eve a great game.


Thank you. You actually made me laugh out loud. This does not in any way prohibit unprovoked aggression In fact it allows MORE unprovoked aggression. You see, when you gank someone unprovoked, then they get kill rights just like they do now, except once the changes go into place others will be able to be hired to fulfill for them and then they will catch you in a mission trying to fix your sec status because you're too stupid to be able to engage in combat any other way than against an enemy who doesn't want to fight, and they will activate said kill right and there will be MORE unprovoked aggression which will result in you losing your ship.

In the end, it will be miners crying over mining barge losses, and you crying over pve ship losses and both will happen in the midst of "unprovoked aggression." Are you really so awful that you can't survive with kill rights on you that can be activated by anyone, or a hunting party?
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
#67 - 2012-10-14 01:38:16 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Good bye pvp eve and say hello to wow in space. This truly would be the final nail in the coffin so 2013 could be the last year of eve?


Naw, CCP is just tired of their servers being full of WOW pvper's and are finally going to make it a little harder to be a prick without repercussions. I think this may very well send a few people packing but those are people who can't really play the game anyways. The guys that can have fun win or lose will still have a ball, in fact probably more fun under the new system.

This mixed with the bounty system is awesome, I look forward to being able to have a 5+ sec status with a bounty able to be added to me. I'm pretty sure there are a few people that would have loved to put one on me and couldn't.
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
#68 - 2012-10-14 01:59:57 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Right now, RR only becomes flagged to people with existing aggression flags. That is to say, you take my can, I aggro you, you aggro me in return (let's say at the 15-minute mark, so you lose aggro to the rest of my corporation right after you aggro me), and then if you get assistance, only I will be able to shoot your logistics. This means that you can probably get by with one, maybe two logistics at most, since you only have to contend with the damage coming in from one ship.

With the crimewatch system, everyone will be able to engage your logistics, because you are a suspect. This means that you will be either forced to not steal from my can, or you will have to bring enough logistics to be able to protect yourself from any white knights who decide to intervene on my behalf.

Like I said before, with this change, the only way to win will be via numerical superiority. And yes, I do live in high-sec, and while I do plenty of pvp in other areas of space, I don't want to lose my enjoyment of this particular aspect of EVE just because some carebear apologists claim that CCP needs high-sec to be completely safe for increased subs.


I'm not sure if I understand your last statement.

So you don't want the changes because you're afraid you won't be safe when trying to kill someone in highsec, who apparently whined because they wanted to be safe in high sec while they did something?

Am I understanding that right?
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#69 - 2012-10-14 02:49:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Corina Jarr
I don't like the lazy free for all given to every minor crime.

They should have given separate penalties based on the severity of the "criminal" act.


Yeah, its work, but so is anything worth doing.

Also, not sure, is the suspect flag a full 15 minutes, or shorter. It really should be shorter IMO.
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#70 - 2012-10-14 04:57:14 UTC
Marzuq wrote:

Friend tries to recover loot from friend's wreck. "suspect flag."


Wrecks can still be set blue or your friend can be in the same fleet.

Not sure about the others since I didn't check, but Ive noticed people throwing info about the new crimewatch and bounties and in many cases it isn't even true or what devs have said. People just love to blow things out of proportion since this is internet..

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies
loyalanon
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#71 - 2012-10-15 11:24:29 UTC
Nendail Smith wrote:
loyalanon wrote:
So I have been reading up on the new Crimewatch updates coming out in the next expansion and so far all I can say is it looks total ****.

Picture 1

Picture 2

What is your take on it?

How can gankers profit from ganking?

lets visit the following scenario -

Player A shoots Player B and player B blows up.

Player B's wreck drops, now when you loot that wreck you are freely attackable by everyone,

CCP have given into the carebears demands and given into the demands of Miners wanting to AFK mine without fear of being ganked by buffing the EHP on all mining barges, with the upcoming crimewatch changes to be implemented this to seems as a way to give in to carebear demands.

They have now pretty much effectively given into remove all forms of unprovoked aggression in high sec.

When I first started playing eve, I played due to the nature of eve, and how you are never safe when undocked and you can partake in non-consensual pvp with other players.

Now it seems that this game while promoting piracy and doing bad deeds to people in-game, it is effectively ruined to cater to the highsec carebears demands of a safer playground for them to mine in. but yet CCP are still promoting it as a Combat Zone that anyone can be a part of.

Whats next? will low sec pvp also be outlawed because carebears cant pvp safely?

While this may seem like a rant, I would appreciate your thoughts on the above. While CCP is a business and needs to make money, they have ruined and lost sight of what makes eve a great game.


Thank you. You actually made me laugh out loud. This does not in any way prohibit unprovoked aggression In fact it allows MORE unprovoked aggression. You see, when you gank someone unprovoked, then they get kill rights just like they do now, except once the changes go into place others will be able to be hired to fulfill for them and then they will catch you in a mission trying to fix your sec status because you're too stupid to be able to engage in combat any other way than against an enemy who doesn't want to fight, and they will activate said kill right and there will be MORE unprovoked aggression which will result in you losing your ship.

In the end, it will be miners crying over mining barge losses, and you crying over pve ship losses and both will happen in the midst of "unprovoked aggression." Are you really so awful that you can't survive with kill rights on you that can be activated by anyone, or a hunting party?



TLDR
Srioghal moDhream
Perkone
Caldari State
#72 - 2012-10-15 14:00:12 UTC
Wait, so your complaint is that this new thing makes it so you are no longer safe to steal from people? And that it helps the carebears?

I am confused, you're complaining that now you will be able to be attacked by others, and they are the carebears?

Like others said, get out of high sec and stop pissing your pants any time someone targets you.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#73 - 2012-10-15 19:05:29 UTC
Nendail Smith wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Right now, RR only becomes flagged to people with existing aggression flags. That is to say, you take my can, I aggro you, you aggro me in return (let's say at the 15-minute mark, so you lose aggro to the rest of my corporation right after you aggro me), and then if you get assistance, only I will be able to shoot your logistics. This means that you can probably get by with one, maybe two logistics at most, since you only have to contend with the damage coming in from one ship.

With the crimewatch system, everyone will be able to engage your logistics, because you are a suspect. This means that you will be either forced to not steal from my can, or you will have to bring enough logistics to be able to protect yourself from any white knights who decide to intervene on my behalf.

Like I said before, with this change, the only way to win will be via numerical superiority. And yes, I do live in high-sec, and while I do plenty of pvp in other areas of space, I don't want to lose my enjoyment of this particular aspect of EVE just because some carebear apologists claim that CCP needs high-sec to be completely safe for increased subs.


I'm not sure if I understand your last statement.

So you don't want the changes because you're afraid you won't be safe when trying to kill someone in highsec, who apparently whined because they wanted to be safe in high sec while they did something?

Am I understanding that right?

You are not.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Ristlin Wakefield
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#74 - 2012-10-15 20:06:11 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Nendail Smith wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Right now, RR only becomes flagged to people with existing aggression flags. That is to say, you take my can, I aggro you, you aggro me in return (let's say at the 15-minute mark, so you lose aggro to the rest of my corporation right after you aggro me), and then if you get assistance, only I will be able to shoot your logistics. This means that you can probably get by with one, maybe two logistics at most, since you only have to contend with the damage coming in from one ship.

With the crimewatch system, everyone will be able to engage your logistics, because you are a suspect. This means that you will be either forced to not steal from my can, or you will have to bring enough logistics to be able to protect yourself from any white knights who decide to intervene on my behalf.

Like I said before, with this change, the only way to win will be via numerical superiority. And yes, I do live in high-sec, and while I do plenty of pvp in other areas of space, I don't want to lose my enjoyment of this particular aspect of EVE just because some carebear apologists claim that CCP needs high-sec to be completely safe for increased subs.


I'm not sure if I understand your last statement.

So you don't want the changes because you're afraid you won't be safe when trying to kill someone in highsec, who apparently whined because they wanted to be safe in high sec while they did something?

Am I understanding that right?

You are not.


To be fair, that isn't a fair engagement anyway. I know some pilots like the challenge and added kill opportunities, BUT in general neutral RR as it exist isn't fun. I'm sure you'll find other ways to use the new system for even more opportunities! And you forget, they are making cheap, solid frigate and cruiser logi, so even noobs won't get bent out of shape over losing a bunch.

I have a lover, her name is EVE. I see her every night and all she asks in return is that I have a pilot's license.
S'No Flake
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2012-10-17 18:40:29 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
It's just a different set of rules to work with thats all.

TBH i think it is fine.

Adapt or die. vOv


Excepting the NPC flag when you use the MacOS client.
Black screen, freeze, socket errors now will kill you in 15min if you are under NPC fire.
Aethis Rex
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#76 - 2012-10-19 18:34:50 UTC
Evolution1979 wrote:
Aethis Rex wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Good bye pvp eve and say hello to wow in space. This truly would be the final nail in the coffin so 2013 could be the last year of eve?


You sir are an Idiot!


Has anyone ever said to you, that you look like jason statham? Shocked



SHHHH, not too loud please. This is the one place where i am not a C-list celebrity.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#77 - 2012-10-23 05:27:15 UTC
Pirates have been whining for ages that hisec needs to be more dangerous. Well, now it is... for them. Blink

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#78 - 2012-10-23 13:17:19 UTC
Whatever happened to Failscales talk of lowsec gates as part of crimewatch, i.e. that gate guns will be powerful enough to wipe out triaging capitals in 4 minutes?

Good job killing small gang pvp in lowsec if you implement such strong gate guns. I hope that particularly stupid idea has been dropped.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#79 - 2012-10-23 13:28:42 UTC
Also what the hell at all the terrible carebears in this thread proving they have no idea how the current mechanics work. How many of you dolts are going to parrot the "current mechanics don't allow the possibility of repercussions to gankers or can flippers!" type crap?

The fact that there is such ignorance of the current mechanics, and then people using their flawed understanding to laugh at or insult pvpers (even ones on the rather low end of the scales such as canflippers and gankers) is astonishing.

The issue that most people have isn't that there are repercussions, it's how they're specifically being implemented and the balance of them. Very minor crimes shouldn't effectively make you a target for the entirety of the universe, that's just incredibly dumb and will serve only to curb highsec pvp.
Christy D Floyd
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2012-10-26 12:32:44 UTC
OP its simple dont goto High Sec stay in null where all your dreams and aspirations will be met.

Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons.