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Crime & Punishment

 
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Crimewatch is Rubbish
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JackknifedII
The Congregation
RAPID HEAVY ROPERS
#101 - 2012-11-28 11:34:54 UTC
loyalanon wrote:

When I first started playing eve, I played due to the nature of eve, and how you are never safe when undocked and you can partake in non-consensual pvp with other players.


Well it looks like, for the 1st time, this will be the case. I suggest you start playing the game you wanted to play all along Pirate

P.S. Ganking doesn't constitute pvp, when you think about it.

Minmatar....we are generally unpleasant to be around....

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC81MDW6dFa41VdNTt-pTl1Q

Always recruiting
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#102 - 2012-11-28 14:24:16 UTC
So does this mean so long as I do not squish your pod (hah like I can squish anyones pod in lowsec now) I will not have sec loss and thus can go and shoot stuff in low until I need to buy some more ships?
flakeys
Doomheim
#103 - 2012-11-28 14:39:24 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
Mike Adoulin wrote:
Gallente Citizen 827473904528 wrote:



Looking forward to 200 kill mails Big smile

It'll be fun to watch the wannabe heroes trying to save the day and gaining extra kill mails Twisted



Yes, because he'll smartbomb them all, obviously.

Never seen what 20+ frigs can do to a battleship/cruiser, have you?

Roll


You've never seen what an experienced solo pvp'er can do to a group of pve'ers ? Look up eve uni null/low roams it'll give an impression.Just a few weeks back seen a group of 15 bc/cruiser/frig uni guys in syndicate trying to get a tengu .. guy was just burning in and out and laughing in their face saying 'more damage come on ' in local while picking off a few at the time.



And i agree , thinking you can just kill anything/anyone without consequences is stupid.Looking forward to it and i really doubt i'd be more carefull with shooting stuff in low then before.

Btw LOVE the GCC removal there ...

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Captain Vampire
Perkone
Caldari State
#104 - 2012-11-28 15:06:29 UTC
Daemon Ceed wrote:
CCP Soundwave gave a good talk during Eve Vegas about how he'd eventually like to get rid of Concord all together and have the players be the police in Eve.


As good as that would be for the pirates, I think that is a pipe dream atm and probably won't ever happen. Could you imagine the tears from the miners who got popped on the belts and nothing happened to the pirate?! Beside the extra storage space needed on the servers for carebear tears, they would most likely end up quitting, eventually killing EVE. Best case scenario it inflates the price of everything.

To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.

Yes we already have spies in your corp muwhahahaha
Captain Vampire
Perkone
Caldari State
#105 - 2012-11-28 15:14:42 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:
So does this mean so long as I do not squish your pod (hah like I can squish anyones pod in lowsec now) I will not have sec loss and thus can go and shoot stuff in low until I need to buy some more ships?


Good question. From what I read that is the case. I logged onto the test server to test it but didn't reach LS. HS you do lose sec stat for aggression as normal. For the pirates wanting to play with the new stuff then follow this....

Copy and paste your EVE folder to somewhere
Create a shortcut of eve.exe to your desktop or wherever
Right click the shortcut and hit properties
Goto the shortcut tab
Add /server:87.237.38.69 to the Target box
It will look like "C:\Program Files (x86)\CCP\Buckingham\eve.exe" /server:87.237.38.69 afterwards (remeber my path to EVE is different to what yours would be Big smile)
Run it and test Retribution

Official source http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Buckingham

To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.

Yes we already have spies in your corp muwhahahaha
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#106 - 2012-11-28 15:37:13 UTC
There is still nothing stopping you from attacking anyone any where. You will just no longer be able to do it with impunity. Your actions will now have consequences.

For anyone with -5 or lower sec status nothing will change. You are already freely attackable by anyone in high sec.

If anything the new crime watch mechanics will give high sec gankers more fights. If you gank someone, anyone else can attack you without CONCORD stopping them. i.e. more fights with less getting CONCORDED. If of course you can actually PVP and kill players that shoot back. The onlt real change is that you will no longer be able to gank with impunity. There will always be a chance you will die. Even if you are attacking a defenseless mining barge or hauler.

Crime watch is not about reducing options. It is about criminals having to face consequences for their crimes. You don't want to be punished, don't commit the crime. It is high sec. It is supposed to be civilized space, where crime is punished. There is still nothing to stop you from committing those crimes. just now you have to face the consequences if you chose to play the game as a criminal.

Just as it should be a smart criminal will find ways to work the system, and get away with their crimes, while the stupid criminals will get caught. It is not like they throw your character in jail and you can't play them for a few weeks until they get out. (that would be a solution if they actually wanted to stop crime in high sec.) You die you jump in another ship and keep fighting. There will be nothing to stop you from being a criminal, the law will just no longer protect the criminals that deserve to die.

The only ones who will get hurt by this are the gankers that think they should be able to kill at will, and never die themselves. PVP although not always consensual, is two players fighting each other. If you are a ganker that never engages in a fight you are not guaranteed to win, you are not a PVPer. Attacking players who can not shoot back is not PVP it is the lowest form of ganking and the single worst aspect of MMO games.
flakeys
Doomheim
#107 - 2012-11-28 16:55:24 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:

The only ones who will get hurt by this are the gankers that think they should be able to kill at will, and never die themselves.



Well that and i think we'll see some lovely lossmails/battlereports from our new ''lawenforcers'' in high sec too Blink

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Auric Veldfinger
Doomheim
#108 - 2012-11-28 20:00:35 UTC
Rutger Gist wrote:
As a fledgling criminal I'm interested in seeing how this will all pan out when it hits December 4. As others have said "Adapt or Die"

As for some of the changes, I don't quite understand what they will actually mean. For instance..... If you are flagged as a criminal, does it mean that anyone who sees you can attack you?

If that is the case, it certainly does make looting / salvaging from other pilot's wrecks a whole new proposition. But, hey! I don't play EVE to be safe and I only fly what I am willing to lose.

My only wish is that CCP gave us more opportunities to be criminals in high sec:

1. Can Flipping is dead with the new barges. Are there really any morons out there, that are still jet canning in HiSec?

2. Smuggling needs to be fleshed out. Not the current, automatic "pay the fine or get popped" . Give us specialized ships of cargo containers, with appropriate skills, to make smuggling as profession alternative.

3. I haven't tested this out yet, but are we able to hack a secure container? If not, we should have this ability. It could be limited to 3 cycles of hacking module, so that if you don't unlock it by 3rd try, you never will.

As for the "whining" about HiSec carebears getting their way on these changes, I'm sure we will find a way to make them cry again. Some of the same concerns were made by the pirate community when "Jump to Zero" was put in years ago. Pirates adapted, although there are a lot fewer pirate corps than there were in the past.


Jet canning is not dead, but after retribution who cares, just have an alt put a can out and steal from that.
Mortlake
Republic Military School
#109 - 2012-11-28 22:19:38 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:

Attacking players who can not shoot back is not PVP it is the lowest form of ganking and the single worst aspect of MMO games.


But... fun nonetheless, and if done selectively, profitable also.

Sometimes you hit the bar and sometimes the bar hits you...
Shederov Blood
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
#110 - 2012-11-28 22:29:04 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:
So does this mean so long as I do not squish your pod (hah like I can squish anyones pod in lowsec now) I will not have sec loss and thus can go and shoot stuff in low until I need to buy some more ships?
No.
From this colourful chart, attacking both ships and pods in low-sec will incur a sec status penalty.

Who put the goat in there?
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#111 - 2012-11-29 01:18:31 UTC
Shederov Blood wrote:
NEONOVUS wrote:
So does this mean so long as I do not squish your pod (hah like I can squish anyones pod in lowsec now) I will not have sec loss and thus can go and shoot stuff in low until I need to buy some more ships?
No.
From this colourful chart, attacking both ships and pods in low-sec will incur a sec status penalty.

NOOO
I demand this fixed right now CCP!
I wnat lowsec to be completely unsafe and allow me to force people to hide in poses and stations just like in null!
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#112 - 2012-11-30 14:37:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
Mortlake wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:

Attacking players who can not shoot back is not PVP it is the lowest form of ganking and the single worst aspect of MMO games.


But... fun nonetheless, and if done selectively, profitable also.

I Didn't sat it was not fun or profitable. It is certainly both when done correctly.Twisted

But it is not PVP it is PRP Player R*ping Player. As the player on the receiving end has no chance to fight back. There are many situations in PVP where you have little to no chance of survival. Jumping into a 20 man gate camp for example. But at least you have the choice to stand and fight, go down with honor.

You might even enjoy it if you have the right mind set for true PVP. True PVP is also rarely balanced or fair. A 1 vs 1 that is set up, balanced, and a fair fight is PVP but not true PVP. In true PVP their is as much chance of the odds being stacked against you as being stacked in your favor. True open world PVP is never balanced.

In order to truly enjoy the open world PVP experience you must let go of the fear of your character dieing. The best and most enjoyable PVP is when you are facing almost certain death and still come out on top. Anyone who has experienced this will tell you it was one of their greatest fights ever. The best PVPers look for these fights and regularly win them.

Going down in a blaze of fiery glory is much more fun then trying to run, getting tackled, and burned without shooting back. You are dead anyway, might as well enjoy the fight.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#113 - 2012-11-30 14:46:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
flakeys wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:

The only ones who will get hurt by this are the gankers that think they should be able to kill at will, and never die themselves.



Well that and i think we'll see some lovely lossmails/battlereports from our new ''lawenforcers'' in high sec too Blink


Yes we will. Exactly my point. For the average high sec ganker this will lead to more fights, and more kills. As many of these self proclaimed law enforcers will not be near as good PVPers as they think they are.

The ones I was referring to that this update will hurt are the ones so afraid of losing their ship they do not want to fight anyone who shoots back. To much risk for them. It is very sad that these ones consider themselves PVPers. They are worse then carebears, even worse than miners.

A miner knows every time they undock there is a chance they will be ganked and killed, yet they have the balls to undock in a defenseless ship regardless. A ganker who refuses to engage in any fight they are not 100% guaranteed they will win, A fight that is completely risk free, is just pathetic.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#114 - 2012-11-30 14:46:57 UTC
Daemon Ceed wrote:
CCP Soundwave gave a good talk during Eve Vegas about how he'd eventually like to get rid of Concord all together and have the players be the police in Eve.


If that is the goal, I think the new bounty system and flags are a good step. But that heavily relies on the final step - removing concord - actually being taken. Otherwise it's dumb.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#115 - 2012-11-30 15:08:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Daemon Ceed wrote:
CCP Soundwave gave a good talk during Eve Vegas about how he'd eventually like to get rid of Concord all together and have the players be the police in Eve.


If that is the goal, I think the new bounty system and flags are a good step. But that heavily relies on the final step - removing concord - actually being taken. Otherwise it's dumb.

A good in between step might be to remove concord and switch the response to the local navy. They show up instead of Concord. These navy ships could of course be tanked, and killed, unlike CONCORD.

As the amount of players stepping in to cover the law enforcement role increases the power, and response time of the Navy fleets could be scaled back. It could even be automated according to ship/pod kills in the system. The more ships and pods destroyed, the more navy assets are dedicated to that system.

In the real world when the police show up to a crime scene or a crime in progress they are not some invincible high damage presence. In fact their equipment is often inferior to what the criminals have. I fully suport CONCORD being removed. But the empires should still maintain there own law enforcement. The empires navy will show up instead of CONCORD. At least until there are enough players in law enforcement to fill the role.

They could even add law enforcement corps much like faction wars, When a crime is committed that would normally spawn CONCORD any law enforcement players in the system get a pop up with the option to be auto warped to the crime scene. Keep the warp in times delayed as security level drops just as concord response is slower in lower sec space. Players would become CONCORD, only not invincible.
This could even be used to add the player useable CONCORD ships and modules some players have been asking for. Of course these would be scaled back, and not the OP invincible equipment CONCORD uses.
Any player flying a concord ship that is not in the concord corp would receive a criminal flag as soon as they enter empire space.

I could really see this working well in EVE.
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#116 - 2012-11-30 19:20:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurelius Valentius
I felt a great disturbance in the Whhhhaaaa... as though millions of griefers where crying out and then where suddenly podded...


I personally find it awesome with the new bounty system as well.

1. I can put a bounty on anyone [or everyone in local and corp and every other channel I can get my mitts on] and dump 100,000K for the fun of postering "WANTED" on all of EVE. and then I get love notes they got blown up, that is so WORTH 100K ISKies.

2. I am however dissappointed in that I can't still [while in my mack] mining away and some ret comes in and starts to mine my rocks, unload 5 Hob IIs or Hammer IIs [def would get hammers for this if I could do it] and blow his face off for messing with my rocks... and on-site engage any Catalyst or whatever... hell get rid of sec all around make it a FREE-FIRE ZONE!!!... I like it... bloody pooftahs!!!

... ahem...

3. I like this, heck... bait rets anyone? i can see this being so much fun I can't stand it... oh oh... OMG.. YES!!!.. ahem... I might need a cig and a change of robe... was it good for you too?

and now for more griefer tears, and a ganker with three-buttocks.


EDIT.. Oh and:

to OP - U mad Bro?
Xylorn Hasher
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#117 - 2012-12-01 03:41:28 UTC
loyalanon wrote:
So I have been reading up on the new Crimewatch updates coming out in the next expansion and so far all I can say is it looks total ****.

Picture 1

Picture 2

What is your take on it?

How can gankers profit from ganking?

lets visit the following scenario -

Player A shoots Player B and player B blows up.

Player B's wreck drops, now when you loot that wreck you are freely attackable by everyone,

CCP have given into the carebears demands and given into the demands of Miners wanting to AFK mine without fear of being ganked by buffing the EHP on all mining barges, with the upcoming crimewatch changes to be implemented this to seems as a way to give in to carebear demands.

They have now pretty much effectively given into remove all forms of unprovoked aggression in high sec.

When I first started playing eve, I played due to the nature of eve, and how you are never safe when undocked and you can partake in non-consensual pvp with other players.

Now it seems that this game while promoting piracy and doing bad deeds to people in-game, it is effectively ruined to cater to the highsec carebears demands of a safer playground for them to mine in. but yet CCP are still promoting it as a Combat Zone that anyone can be a part of.

Whats next? will low sec pvp also be outlawed because carebears cant pvp safely?

While this may seem like a rant, I would appreciate your thoughts on the above. While CCP is a business and needs to make money, they have ruined and lost sight of what makes eve a great game.


Well said,
CCP direction is to bring as much fresh blood as possible sacrificing the world of Eve itself.
I laugh in the face to anyone who says Eve is harsh game. One who says that never played Ultima or Mortal Online.
There were times that noone even dreamed about warping to zero on gates. Now CCP give us changed gate and station guns mechanic which will be propably another lowsec nerf.

Time will tell

All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana consumption.
Blackcamper
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2012-12-01 10:46:22 UTC
I think it is going to be a good thing.

I live in low sec and are looking foreword to more players in low sec .

And according to pic 2 you still get a sec hit when shooting some one in low sec. so where you all the get the info that you will not lose sec in low sec need to look it over one more time

And i like that gankers in hi sec now have a harder time can flipping, but as always there epic tears on the forum at they mite have to think and adapt to some new game tactics.

Low sec is still the space, that get the lest new contest. nerf hi sec move all ice to low sec. that will make the game more fun.

There Was NO WARNING Of Their ARRIVAL! They Had No MERCY! They Gave NO QUARTER!

http://screenshotuploader.com/s/1307gxodd
Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2012-12-01 12:05:55 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
There is still nothing stopping you from attacking anyone any where. You will just no longer be able to do it with impunity. Your actions will now have consequences.

For anyone with -5 or lower sec status nothing will change. You are already freely attackable by anyone in high sec.

If anything the new crime watch mechanics will give high sec gankers more fights. If you gank someone, anyone else can attack you without CONCORD stopping them. i.e. more fights with less getting CONCORDED. If of course you can actually PVP and kill players that shoot back. The onlt real change is that you will no longer be able to gank with impunity. There will always be a chance you will die. Even if you are attacking a defenseless mining barge or hauler.

Crime watch is not about reducing options. It is about criminals having to face consequences for their crimes. You don't want to be punished, don't commit the crime. It is high sec. It is supposed to be civilized space, where crime is punished. There is still nothing to stop you from committing those crimes. just now you have to face the consequences if you chose to play the game as a criminal.

Just as it should be a smart criminal will find ways to work the system, and get away with their crimes, while the stupid criminals will get caught. It is not like they throw your character in jail and you can't play them for a few weeks until they get out. (that would be a solution if they actually wanted to stop crime in high sec.) You die you jump in another ship and keep fighting. There will be nothing to stop you from being a criminal, the law will just no longer protect the criminals that deserve to die.

The only ones who will get hurt by this are the gankers that think they should be able to kill at will, and never die themselves. PVP although not always consensual, is two players fighting each other. If you are a ganker that never engages in a fight you are not guaranteed to win, you are not a PVPer. Attacking players who can not shoot back is not PVP it is the lowest form of ganking and the single worst aspect of MMO games.


Yeah, someone should do something about people just being able to kill others with impunity in highsec. Maybe something like an omnipotent police force that executes them for it.
Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2012-12-01 12:08:44 UTC
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
I felt a great disturbance in the Whhhhaaaa... as though millions of griefers where crying out and then where suddenly podded...


I personally find it awesome with the new bounty system as well.

1. I can put a bounty on anyone [or everyone in local and corp and every other channel I can get my mitts on] and dump 100,000K for the fun of postering "WANTED" on all of EVE. and then I get love notes they got blown up, that is so WORTH 100K ISKies.

2. I am however dissappointed in that I can't still [while in my mack] mining away and some ret comes in and starts to mine my rocks, unload 5 Hob IIs or Hammer IIs [def would get hammers for this if I could do it] and blow his face off for messing with my rocks... and on-site engage any Catalyst or whatever... hell get rid of sec all around make it a FREE-FIRE ZONE!!!... I like it... bloody pooftahs!!!

... ahem...

3. I like this, heck... bait rets anyone? i can see this being so much fun I can't stand it... oh oh... OMG.. YES!!!.. ahem... I might need a cig and a change of robe... was it good for you too?

and now for more griefer tears, and a ganker with three-buttocks.


EDIT.. Oh and:

to OP - U mad Bro?


Jesus Christ you're incoherent. This update has dumb things in it, but it's not going to end my ability to shoot your ****** untanked mackinaw. (seriously, why do you mine ice? It's terrible income)