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Dev blog: Introducing the new and improved Crimewatch

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Udonor
Doomheim
#501 - 2012-10-04 21:58:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Udonor
Koghrun Amman wrote:
Not sure if this has already come up.

Scenario:
Player A is in 0.0 with Player B.
Player A shoots at B at a gate. B does not return fire.
Player B has a PVP timer, but no weapon timer, and can jump freely to safety after taking a single salvo.
Player A cannot jump until his weapon timer expires (15 minutes after his weapon counters).


This will so radically change the way small gang combat is done in 0.0

No timers in Null!


Well at least CCP can claim this has some basis in EVE physics "Hot guns generate interference with jumps and dangerous heat in enclosed docks"


Weapons timer is ONLY 60 seconds.

Also (although its badly worded) I believe being hit by weapons fire also gives you weapons flag. So I suspect more people have an issue with being forced to duke it out in their mining barge while sitting outside a station -- than people worried about changes in null sec

Shocked If I got it right the CCP weapons flag is designed to force combats to completion - a situation that usually favors the ambushers. If you warp scramble someone they can no longer duck into station or jump gate instead -- they must win or die. As long as you are shooting or BEING SHOT within last 60 seconds you can only warp within system...assuming you are not warp disabled. Shocked

Evil The 60 seconds just means the losers friends have 60 seconds after combat finishes to arrive and start shooting the winner before the winner can duck into station or jump gates. Evil
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#502 - 2012-10-04 21:58:32 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Lucas Quaan wrote:
Not reading 23 pages, but is the first chart correct in that hitting illegal targets in 0.0 (like there are any others) with smartbomb/ECM burst does not give a pvp flag? And what about being hit by those modules?

Heh, a slight troll by CCP.

Think about it: who exactly is not a legal target in 0.0?

Chribba

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Matt Grav
Wrath of the Pea
#503 - 2012-10-04 21:59:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Matt Grav
Koghrun Amman wrote:
Not sure if this has already come up.

Scenario:
Player A is in 0.0 with Player B.
Player A shoots at B at a gate. B does not return fire.
Player B has a PVP timer, but no weapon timer, and can jump freely to safety after taking a single salvo.
Player A cannot jump until his weapon timer expires (15 minutes after his weapon counters).

Weapons timer is on 60 sec not 15 min.

Edit: people are fast around here.
Nirnaeth Ornoediad
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#504 - 2012-10-04 21:59:51 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Well, the null sec zealots get to rejoice a little more as the path of the utter destruction of high sec just got a little shorter.
Let us combine 2 features by separate dev's and see what happens in missions.

My opposition to the AI changes are all over the forums, but this NPC timer is wonderful, just wonderful.
The null sec zealots say "man up, fly a non-drone boat".

OK, let's say I am in Worlds Collide and I am in a Vargur.
I still need small drones because my BS guns can't track the frigs that are scramming me in the room.
Now, the new AI states that the NPC's will go after objects of similar sigs, so that means the frigs will be going after small drones in a big big way.
So once all the small drones are dead, my gunboat Vargur is in a really bad way.
I can't warp out of the mission, and with the new 15 minute timer, my active-tanked Vargur is auto-dead if I log off to be able to get new drones.

Only way the Vargur survives is if it can sit in the mission for 15 minutes tanking the site, then logging off, or waiting until downtime.

But no, these two new "improvements" by separate dev's will not have wipe out high sec income at all.

Just fly a missile Tengu...oh yeah.forgot, the mission Tengu is having is DPS reduced by 20% by a 3rd dev.


In a MMO game, you are not entitled to solo access to every piece of content . If you can't figure out one ship to do Worlds Collide, do it with a buddy. Do a different mission. Do *something*. It's not like all of EVE need be defined by a single PVE mission in hi-sec.

Fix POSes.  Every player should want one (even if all players can't have one).
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#505 - 2012-10-04 22:01:38 UTC
Cassius Longinus wrote:


Anyways, I hope the light dictor thing is revisited- there is really no reason to penalize the flying coffin, and small gangs really require a single ship to lock down both sides of a gate from initial warp-off.


While not being able to bubble and jump is a hinderance to dictors, perhaps there's a better solution... Give the dictor hull a bonus to speed while cloaked, or to fitting a cloak. This will improve their surviveability, while still subjecting them to a pretty hefty drawback when bubbling people...
Jarin Arenos
Card Shark Industries
#506 - 2012-10-04 22:03:31 UTC
Nirnaeth Ornoediad wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Well, the null sec zealots get to rejoice a little more as the path of the utter destruction of high sec just got a little shorter.
Let us combine 2 features by separate dev's and see what happens in missions.

My opposition to the AI changes are all over the forums, but this NPC timer is wonderful, just wonderful.
The null sec zealots say "man up, fly a non-drone boat".

OK, let's say I am in Worlds Collide and I am in a Vargur.
I still need small drones because my BS guns can't track the frigs that are scramming me in the room.
Now, the new AI states that the NPC's will go after objects of similar sigs, so that means the frigs will be going after small drones in a big big way.
So once all the small drones are dead, my gunboat Vargur is in a really bad way.
I can't warp out of the mission, and with the new 15 minute timer, my active-tanked Vargur is auto-dead if I log off to be able to get new drones.

Only way the Vargur survives is if it can sit in the mission for 15 minutes tanking the site, then logging off, or waiting until downtime.

But no, these two new "improvements" by separate dev's will not have wipe out high sec income at all.

Just fly a missile Tengu...oh yeah.forgot, the mission Tengu is having is DPS reduced by 20% by a 3rd dev.


In a MMO game, you are not entitled to solo access to every piece of content . If you can't figure out one ship to do Worlds Collide, do it with a buddy. Do a different mission. Do *something*. It's not like all of EVE need be defined by a single PVE mission in hi-sec.

It's called an "example". There's tons of L4 missions with elite frigates.

But I'm not CCP Soundwave, so what do I know?
Koghrun Amman
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#507 - 2012-10-04 22:04:45 UTC
Sorry guys,
I misread that.
I have edited my original post to reflect the truth.
Jarin Arenos
Card Shark Industries
#508 - 2012-10-04 22:06:57 UTC
Look, I'm not saying that you can't make highsec missions more challenging or whatever. But like the 20% HML nerf + tracking damped missiles, this is too much at once. All we're asking is at least some sort of consideration from CCP in this process. A little communication and assurance that they've at least looked at the issue and this isn't just lousy oversight.

But I'm not CCP Soundwave, so what do I know?
MisterNick
The Sagan Clan
#509 - 2012-10-04 22:07:35 UTC
Mmm, charts Smile

Masterplan best plan, solid changes. I look forward to testing it.

"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom."
Atomic Option
NO Tax FAT Stacks
#510 - 2012-10-04 22:16:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Atomic Option
I'm not sure how I feel about this NPC flag and the Weapons Flag for NPC content.

It's a small nerf to ratters trying to get safe when ganking fleets enter the system. I'll have to make sure to bounce safes or warp to a POS instead of docking in station.


The biggest question I have is what will the length of these flags be?
Lucas Quaan
Goryn Clade
#511 - 2012-10-04 22:17:47 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Lucas Quaan wrote:
Not reading 23 pages, but is the first chart correct in that hitting illegal targets in 0.0 (like there are any others) with smartbomb/ECM burst does not give a pvp flag? And what about being hit by those modules?

Heh, a slight troll by CCP.

Think about it: who exactly is not a legal target in 0.0?

Yeah, but it's listed for targeted modules so knowing the arbitrariness of some game mechanics I thought it best to ask. Never assume incompetence where malice would be so much more fun. :)
Matt Grav
Wrath of the Pea
#512 - 2012-10-04 22:18:59 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Matt Grav wrote:
I'm still looking for the answer to this ^
One would think that you'd only get one sec hit per engagement, and that an “engagement” is defined as “as long as you have that PvP flag”… but I'm only guessing.

That's interesting. The suspect flag is global, so as long as I do not get into a LE with someone, then nothing is tracking the engagement . So if they warp off grid and then return and attack again we may well find that they take another sec hit + gate guns.

Otherwise a pirate could pick up the suspect flag in a belt and then freely attack anyone at a gate without taking further sec hit or gate guns.

That's the way that I read no A-B flagging outside of LE anyway.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#513 - 2012-10-04 22:19:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Lucas Quaan wrote:
Yeah, but it's listed for targeted modules so knowing the arbitrariness of some game mechanics I thought it best to ask. Never assume incompetence where malice would be so much more fun. :)
Nolnah's razor? Lol

Matt Grav wrote:
That's interesting. The suspect flag is global, so as long as I do not get into a LE with someone, then nothing is tracking the engagement . So if they warp off grid and then return and attack again we may well find that they take another sec hit + gate guns.

Otherwise a pirate could pick up the suspect flag in a belt and then freely attack anyone at a gate without taking further sec hit or gate guns.

That's the way that I read no A-B flagging outside of LE anyway.
Yes, I can't quite see how it would fit into the current system as described, since only LEs set up any kind of relationship and it's not certain that one will exist, but it seems like a reasonable limitation. After all, there must be some kind of tracking going on so you don't get a sec drop for every shot you fire, or even for every module activation. Exactly what mechanism or timer they'll use as a basis isn't particularly relevant on the scale of things, but it would be nice to know…
Tsubutai
Perkone
Caldari State
#514 - 2012-10-04 22:20:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsubutai
I have a question about sentry gun aggression and sec status hits. According to the blog, taking actions that cause you to receive a sec status hit while on grid with sentry guns will make the sentries attack you. If you then warp off, the sentries will immediately forget about your wicked ways and will let you be until you next do something in front of them that causes a sec hit. The blog also states that when you attack and kill a player ship, you only get a single, front-loaded sec status hit. What then happens if I aggress a neutral in sight of the sentries (taking my full front-loaded sec hit and receiving a suspect flag), then warp off grid and come back to resume shooting? Specifically, will my actions still be covered by that first sec hit, and will the sentries start shooting me again? There seem to be four possible outcomes:

a) I take an additional sec status hit, sentries start shooting me again
b) I take no additional sec status hit, sentries start shooting me again
c) I take no additional sec status hit, sentries ignore me
d) I take an additional sec status hit, sentries ignore me

I assume (b) is what will happen, but I'm not sure based on the blog alone.
Udonor
Doomheim
#515 - 2012-10-04 22:32:43 UTC
Jarin Arenos wrote:
Look, I'm not saying that you can't make highsec missions more challenging or whatever. But like the 20% HML nerf + tracking damped missiles, this is too much at once. All we're asking is at least some sort of consideration from CCP in this process. A little communication and assurance that they've at least looked at the issue and this isn't just lousy oversight.



Why? If you are high sec, no risk player it should be impossible for you to earn enough ISK to PLEX your account every month.

IF you are only weekend warrior, you shouldn't be able get all your equipment from a single PLEX purchase either.

This fits well with the CCP goal is to sell more PLEX by lowering the ISK value of PLEX. Ultimately this means decent full-time PVP players will all be able to PLEX their accounts every month while less serious part-time or high sec players foot the bill.

How it works: Initially by reducing mission income, more hi sec people will need to buy PLEX with RL cash rather than ISK. The reduced demand for PLEX on ISK market will lower the ISK value of PLEX...meaning those rich folk converting RL cash to ISK via PLEX will also need to buy more PLEX to reach ISK target goals. A new equilibrium price will eventually be established at lower level as low sec and null sec PVPers start buying more PLEX and stop paying RL cash.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#516 - 2012-10-04 22:34:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Tippia wrote:
@ CCP Masterplan

In regards to the T3 SP loss situation, could you care to comment on the thinking and on the possibility (or downsides) of a solution to that change in mechanics. I made a short remark on it earlier but it was kind of buried in a different post.

Right now, you list “Weapons”-flagging as causing a 60-second inability to dock, jump, abandon ship (by ejecting or storing the ship), and board ships (be it in space or from a corp hangar) unless it's done from a capsule. This is to remove the whole “ship-swapping to avoid destruction”, I presume, and the capsule exception is hidden behind the rule that makes it impossible to enter a capsule without being destroyed?

What if you adjusted the weapons-flagging rules so that:
· It does not have that capsule exception: in other words, you cannot board ships while you have a weapons flag, period.
· You are allowed to eject from (but not store) a ship while weapon-flagged.
· Ejecting resets your weapon flag timer to the full 60 seconds.
· Getting blown up clears your weapon flag timer to 0.

As far as I can see, this would maintain the ban on ship-swapping: you can't swap ships mid-battle — yes, you can eject, but it will take 60 seconds for your weapons flag to clear out, and before that, you're not allowed to board a new ship. Have fun orbiting ye olde Orca in a pod for a minute while everyone around you is allowed to shoot you. If you are destroyed, you can board a new ship… but then, that was possible under the suggested rule set as well and you have to lose a ship to get there, so this is no different than what you're proposing. If you are destroyed, you can also (almost) immediately jump through a gate or dock up, but those are still restricted by the session timer that triggers on destruction so the exploitation potential from those (re)added abilities should be minimal. Finally, this means you once again can get out of your T3 to save your SP, but you have all the weapons-flag restrictions for the next 60 seconds so the only possible thing to do is warp off and hope for the best.

Is there anything I've missed in this that would go against what your goals are? Are there any obvious loop-holes?

When you've ejected from your expensive gatecamp ship, what's to stop a conveniently-placed alt-orca scooping it and insta-jumping to highsec, where it will be untouchable?


a scooping timer (edit: for boardable equipment). add the timer to the orca where the exploit actually happens

the eject game mechanics does not cause this exploit. The fact that an orca can scoop and jump within 2s does

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Jarin Arenos
Card Shark Industries
#517 - 2012-10-04 22:35:53 UTC
Udonor wrote:
Jarin Arenos wrote:
Look, I'm not saying that you can't make highsec missions more challenging or whatever. But like the 20% HML nerf + tracking damped missiles, this is too much at once. All we're asking is at least some sort of consideration from CCP in this process. A little communication and assurance that they've at least looked at the issue and this isn't just lousy oversight.



Why? If you are high sec, no risk player it should be impossible for you to earn enough ISK to PLEX your account every month.

IF you are only weekend warrior, you shouldn't be able get all your equipment from a single PLEX purchase either.

This fits well with the CCP goal is to sell more PLEX by lowering the ISK value of PLEX. Ultimately this means decent full-time PVP players will all be able to PLEX their accounts every month while less serious part-time or high sec players foot the bill.

How it works: Initially by reducing mission income, more hi sec people will need to buy PLEX with RL cash rather than ISK. The reduced demand for PLEX on ISK market will lower the ISK value of PLEX...meaning those rich folk converting RL cash to ISK via PLEX will also need to buy more PLEX to reach ISK target goals. A new equilibrium price will eventually be established at lower level as low sec and null sec PVPers start buying more PLEX and stop paying RL cash.

Okay first, I don't PLEX, I just pay my monthly fee and play the game. Second... that rambling mess is... probably a bit of a stretch. Seriously, man, with that avatar, I'd be careful about throwing around conspiracy theories, or you might have some nice DEA men dropping in.

But I'm not CCP Soundwave, so what do I know?
Swidgen
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#518 - 2012-10-04 22:37:44 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
EVE is not a simple game, but at least there will now be charts describing how it behaves! Big smile

Please make sure the GMs are aware of these charts, how things are supposed to work, and that all these flags and timers are Logged. You're doing a re-design of a huge part of the game. "The Logs Show Nothing" will no longer be an acceptable excuse What?

Also, wardecs. Since war targets are always legal to shoot at, what flags will combat trigger and for how long? The Charts Show Nothing. The word "wardec" doesn't even appear on them. Will parties at war still be able to employ neutral remote-reppers without any consequences?
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#519 - 2012-10-04 22:45:55 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:

Also, am I right in reading that if I attack someone in space in low sec and don't pod them, there might not be any sentry guns involved at all, if it doesn't happen at a gate? I might have read wrong, and I'm way too lazy to check other people's posts to see if they answer my question.


This is correct. No more having to sit in a safespot for 15 minutes after shooting someone in a lowsec belt/FW plex.

thats awesome!

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Mike deVoid
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#520 - 2012-10-04 23:06:45 UTC
AttentionSec Status and mobilityAttention

Can you comment on the rumour that suspect-flag behaviour (i.e. low-sec PVP ) will only lower your sec status to -4.99 and will not lock you out of highsec?

Can you comment on the rumours that Highsec sec status faction navy aggro is being changed to a flat -5 value for all systems and that you are ditching the current sliding scale that exists?

Can you comment on the rumour that faction navy NPC aggro will only apply to sec status and completely ignore faction standings?