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Dev blog: Introducing the new and improved Crimewatch

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ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#121 - 2012-10-04 16:14:28 UTC
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
in before the circlejerk... maybe not

So you're killing off ninja salvaging and can flipping as a professions how is that not dumbing things down?



Since salvage is not covered by the same rules as everything else, I do not see how this will change.

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#122 - 2012-10-04 16:15:12 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
This 15 minute NPC timer means death for any ratter who has an internet outage.
You can't balance a game around the assumption that people have awful ISPs because that only ever opens the door for new and fun exploits. If you have an outage, do what you would normally do: get back online ASAP.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2012-10-04 16:15:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
Awesome job Team Five-0 !!!! o7


Although I still think that salvage should have the same rules as taking things from other people cans... Since it takes parts from the loot. Only because it have "no value" it doesn't means that it is not a crime. You can get arrested in RL for stealing a coin...
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#124 - 2012-10-04 16:15:43 UTC
Shandir wrote:
Oh - question:

I don't see a way to do it, but under these new rules, is there ANY way to extend/reset another player's timer while they're not present or docked? Or can you only affect your own?

Because unexpected timer-extension is bad.

If you can find a way to do this, then I've missed something. You speak the truth about surprise-timers being bad

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law

CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#125 - 2012-10-04 16:17:45 UTC
Sun Win wrote:
That's unfortunate, given that when you guys announced Tech 3 on the Dev Blog, you said:



Now you've made it so that Tech 3 pilots can't abandon ship. It's not a huge deal, most Tech 3 ships go down fighting. But this was something that you originally included as an interesting gameplay choice that you are now removing.

"From time-to-time" is not the same as "In the middle of combat that isn't going your way"
If you were suprise-ganked and weren't shooting, you can eject as you wish. But once you make an attack, you are committing yourself, for good or for bad.

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law

Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#126 - 2012-10-04 16:18:45 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


Tippia always comes up with flippiant answers that have very little basis in reality.
This 15 minute NPC timer means death for any ratter who has an internet outage.



If I remember correctly ships will warp out to a "safe area" if you disconnect, unless you are already pointed.

β€οΈοΈπŸ’›πŸ’šπŸ’™πŸ’œ

Aiden Mourn
Wrack and Ruin
#127 - 2012-10-04 16:18:48 UTC
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
in before the circlejerk... maybe not

So you're killing off ninja salvaging and can flipping as a professions how is that not dumbing things down?



Though I applaud you for saying so ( Blink ), in fairness, ninja salvaging has always been a gray area fringe profession (more-so than even can-flipping to be honest), and will move forward with this in some form or another. The real nerfs to the profession came more than a year ago with loot drop and salvage price dives, and the community has and will continue to find creative new ways of ruining someones day regardless. I'm honestly not too worried about the effect his may or may not have on ninja-ing as a profession, because if anything, it blows the doors wide open for conflict escalation and tom-foolery. Again though, you're right with can-flipping; without a sizable backup fleet with logi support, this is effectively dead as a new player "profession".

http://aidenmourn.wordpress.com/

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#128 - 2012-10-04 16:21:37 UTC
There's a Crime, now let's watch it!

β˜…β˜…β˜… Secure 3rd party service β˜…β˜…β˜…

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar

Tetsel
House Amamake
#129 - 2012-10-04 16:22:31 UTC
Mother Amamake is pleased you tested the new Crimewatch at her place.
Now her peacfull Orcas will be burned to death in a giant sacrifice fest ! Pirate

Loyal servent to Mother Amamake. @EVE_Tetsel

Another Bittervet Please Ignore

Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2012-10-04 16:22:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Shandir wrote:
Oh - question:

I don't see a way to do it, but under these new rules, is there ANY way to extend/reset another player's timer while they're not present or docked? Or can you only affect your own?

Because unexpected timer-extension is bad.

If you can find a way to do this, then I've missed something. You speak the truth about surprise-timers being bad


As long as you have assisted drones on someone, and he commands atack, you will atack its target too. And if he have a LE against the targed and you not, you will get a surprise "Concordokken", this is the only passive flag change that i can think...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#131 - 2012-10-04 16:22:53 UTC
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
So you're killing off ninja salvaging and can flipping as a professions how is that not dumbing things down?
Ninja salvaging isn't touched in any way, and can flipping gets a nice two-way increase in stakes β€” as the flipper, you are now a free-for-all target, but if he manages to fall for it and steal things back, then so is he.

…now the safety system, on the other hand…
Aiden Mourn
Wrack and Ruin
#132 - 2012-10-04 16:23:55 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Sun Win wrote:
That's unfortunate, given that when you guys announced Tech 3 on the Dev Blog, you said:



Now you've made it so that Tech 3 pilots can't abandon ship. It's not a huge deal, most Tech 3 ships go down fighting. But this was something that you originally included as an interesting gameplay choice that you are now removing.

"From time-to-time" is not the same as "In the middle of combat that isn't going your way"
If you were suprise-ganked and weren't shooting, you can eject as you wish. But once you make an attack, you are committing yourself, for good or for bad.



"For bad" here being, "the loss of substantial skillpoints". True, ejecting from a ship as a means of escaping cause and effect and consequences to your actions is in the long-game, bad. But ejecting from a T3 to escape the SP loss still has (had?) its consequences, namely leaving behind a 500mil+ ship. I understand that there are obviously exploits to be looked at with this, but I feel like the choice should be there for a pilot to commit to either losing SP or ISK, especially in the case of piloting a T3 which tends to be heavy on both sides of that coin.

http://aidenmourn.wordpress.com/

TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2012-10-04 16:24:19 UTC
ISD TYPE40 wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
in before the circlejerk... maybe not

So you're killing off ninja salvaging and can flipping as a professions how is that not dumbing things down?



Since salvage is not covered by the same rules as everything else, I do not see how this will change.



Gah, ninja lootytooty then, I always lump them into the same box because If you've scanned down a mission runner and have been salvaging his wrecks and spot a xmil mod (fair bit for a new player) might as well take it, that now opens you up for universal agression?


so, new players suffer.


It's also gimped the whole dualing thing that so many honor bound 1 vs 1ers go for.


It's definitely a step, I'm just not sure where to and I'm not buying the dev back patting that's going on around here.
Ydnari
Estrale Frontiers
#134 - 2012-10-04 16:25:05 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Ydnari wrote:
There's a mention of kill rights, particularly that you get KR from a Criminal act being done against you, so according to the charts that's pod attacked in lowsec, assistants of a Criminal, or ship or pod attacked in highsec (whether it's destroyed or not).

Apart from the assistance bit, you've correct.

Quote:
Does this mean that kill rights for ship (not pod) destroyed in lowsec without aggressing back to the attacker have gone, or is that still in the new system?

Ship-ship aggression in low-sec will no longer generate a kill right. Super Friends have a blog coming along that goes in to this in more details about how this will work.


Alrighty then, look forward to the details on that.

The rest of the changes look good to me Cool

--

Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2012-10-04 16:26:30 UTC
itt: good news !

now we only need an improved limited engagement system that allows a group of pirate players to fight a group of police players that engages only one of them

Jita Bloodtear
Bloodtear Labs
#136 - 2012-10-04 16:27:34 UTC
Just to clarify some scenarios that we encounter regularly:

1.) A nullsec mining fleet sees a hostile roam coming their direction, they crash the clients to prevent being seen. Right now, all the non-pvp aggressed ships would leave space after 60 seconds. With the changes the ones who had been shot by belt rats recently would remain in space for up to 15 mins where they'll easily be scanned down and killed?

2.) A supercarrier fleet is going around creating sov timers, reinforcing ihubs/stations unopposed, destroying offline towers, attacking POCOs. Their internet fails and their clients DC. Right now they would vanish in 60 seconds. With the changes they would persist in space for 15 mins where they can easily be scanned down and killed?

3.) A super capital fleet is involved in a pvp skirmish while out on operations but they're almost done. They cyno back to their staging system, warp off to their own towers, and log. Right now they'd vanish after 60 seconds. With the changes they'd persist for up to 15 mins with renewable pvp aggression?

Tarsas Phage
Freight Club
#137 - 2012-10-04 16:27:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarsas Phage
CCP Masterplan wrote:

Kill rights

Performing an action against another player that gets you a Criminal flag will also award a kill-right to that person. This will happen regardless of whether or not the target ship was destroyed. This will feed in to the revamped bounty system that Team Super Friends will be talking about very shortly, so look for a dev blog coming from them soon.


Currently, Kill Rights are granted under the following conditions:

* As an aggressor, if you attack a ship (Go GCC) and aggression is not returned upon you by the ship you are attacking, the other party gains kill rights on you upon their destruction.

* As above, if the attacked ship does return aggression on you, they do not gain kill rights on you if they are destroyed.

Will this continue to be the case, or is just the mere act of attacking a ship will grant kill rights on you, regardless of the outcome?
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#138 - 2012-10-04 16:30:55 UTC
Aiden Mourn wrote:
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Sun Win wrote:
That's unfortunate, given that when you guys announced Tech 3 on the Dev Blog, you said:



Now you've made it so that Tech 3 pilots can't abandon ship. It's not a huge deal, most Tech 3 ships go down fighting. But this was something that you originally included as an interesting gameplay choice that you are now removing.

"From time-to-time" is not the same as "In the middle of combat that isn't going your way"
If you were suprise-ganked and weren't shooting, you can eject as you wish. But once you make an attack, you are committing yourself, for good or for bad.



"For bad" here being, "the loss of substantial skillpoints". True, ejecting from a ship as a means of escaping cause and effect and consequences to your actions is in the long-game, bad. But ejecting from a T3 to escape the SP loss still has (had?) its consequences, namely leaving behind a 500mil+ ship. I understand that there are obviously exploits to be looked at with this, but I feel like the choice should be there for a pilot to commit to either losing SP or ISK, especially in the case of piloting a T3 which tends to be heavy on both sides of that coin.



Maybe, but people were exploiting this all day long by ejecting and immediately scooping up the ejected ship with another one...
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#139 - 2012-10-04 16:33:10 UTC
Jita Bloodtear wrote:
Just to clarify some scenarios that we encounter regularly:

1.) A nullsec mining fleet sees a hostile roam coming their direction, they crash the clients to prevent being seen. Right now, all the non-pvp aggressed ships would leave space after 60 seconds. With the changes the ones who had been shot by belt rats recently would remain in space for up to 15 mins where they'll easily be scanned down and killed?

2.) A supercarrier fleet is going around creating sov timers, reinforcing ihubs/stations unopposed, destroying offline towers, attacking POCOs. Their internet fails and their clients DC. Right now they would vanish in 60 seconds. With the changes they would persist in space for 15 mins where they can easily be scanned down and killed?

3.) A super capital fleet is involved in a pvp skirmish while out on operations but they're almost done. They cyno back to their staging system, warp off to their own towers, and log. Right now they'd vanish after 60 seconds. With the changes they'd persist for up to 15 mins with renewable pvp aggression?


Yes

I'm pretty sure we're going to make shooting structures owned by players give the attacker a PVP flag. So probably yes

They'd persist for 15 minutes after they were last involved in PVP, and that time can be extended after they log

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law

Odin Shadow
ZC Industries
Dark Stripes
#140 - 2012-10-04 16:33:15 UTC
so, i disconect in a mission. say i cant get back in for a short while. now when i do get back in, ill be in a pod if my ship was scrammed, didnt warp off, didnt tank and just sat there dying?