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Dev blog: Introducing the new and improved Crimewatch

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Author
ihcn
Life. Universe. Everything.
Clockwork Pineapple
#461 - 2012-10-04 21:24:29 UTC
Albert Spear wrote:


1. This if fine if you have the skills to cloak and you belong to a group that has a POS. If you are a newbie - it is yet another penalty that reduces the ability for newbies to make isk and continue in the game.

When you are new in the game rat'ing is one of the few ways to make isk in high sec while skills grow. Make rat'ing too dangerous and more newbies will decide that after the 21 day trial - or sooner - that the game is not for them.

Right now rat'ing in high sec while gaining skills is a primary activity for newbies who want to own better ships. Missioning is the second way, and again this makes it more difficult and dangerous to mission.

Good.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#462 - 2012-10-04 21:25:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
I really, really want to know what happens here:

Carebear A in in Corp A
Carebear B is in Corp B.

Corp A and Corp B are at war:
Player A engages Player B legally in highsec.
Player C reps player B.

Since there are no global flags generated for Player B (he's not a criminal, suspect, nor outlaw), then there is no Limited Engagement flag. As such, Player C does NOT receive a suspect flag for Repping player B.

Free Neutral Logistics in Highsec Wars??? Dear god I hope NOT!!!!!!!!
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#463 - 2012-10-04 21:25:59 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
Will the carrier triage module, the dread siege module, and the cynos gen count as a weapon? will it aplly continuously untill the cycle ends or it will only aplly in the begin?

Does it matter?

Its not like anything sieged/triaged/cynoing is going anywhere in the next 5 mins

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION

Jarin Arenos
Card Shark Industries
#464 - 2012-10-04 21:26:28 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
If 90% of people who voluntarily confine themselves in highsec quit, and 10% decide to also participate in other more profitable parts of the game, EVE will be better off.

CCP doesn't chain you into being a "highsec player". You do it yourself. In fact, CCP is trying to encourage you to open your eyes and look for other things to do than grind NPCs 23/7.

Because losing 75% of the game's playerbase will let it remain profitable and continue operating. Or was this your clever way of saying you hate the game and it would be "better off" dead?

But I'm not CCP Soundwave, so what do I know?

Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#465 - 2012-10-04 21:26:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
Udonor wrote:
I have real problems with WARP DISABLE for Criminal flag. Its a sloppy GOD power in an otherwise great SciFI universe.

I know its rooted in reducing CONCORD CPU use but at this point....
WHY does CONCORD even SHOW UP??? Just BLOW ME UP REMOTELY instead of turning my warp off!!!!

Front-end loading of criminal flags should solve a lot of CONCORD goose chase issues. Hell CONCORD should actually stop me before I have a chance to finish blowing up some ships in hi sec.

[...]

Warping is essential to self-defense especially against a potential huge number of opponents.

(1) Without it I cannot even go get more ammo.

(2) Disabling warp makes no sense at all in terms of storyline. Unlimited range scramble weapon? BS not even CONCORD
Some criminals would find ways to disable that. And if not, then same control mechanism should prevent criminal actions in the first place.

(3) A big chase is more exciting. Allows more players involvement.



What exactly are you trying to get more ammo for when you're about to get concorded?
Lucas Quaan
DEMONS OF THE HIDDEN MIST
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#466 - 2012-10-04 21:28:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Quaan
Not reading 23 pages, but is the first chart correct in that hitting illegal targets in 0.0 (like there are any others) with smartbomb/ECM burst does not give a pvp flag? And what about being hit by those modules?

edit: Nvm, found the answer on p12. Redundant entry is redundant.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#467 - 2012-10-04 21:29:14 UTC
Arec Bardwin wrote:
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Arec Bardwin wrote:
- Pods, are they legal targets if the player is criminal, suspect, LE flagged?
Yes
Interesting Twisted

Oh i missed that line.
So, after a good year when i asked for this, it finally comes. :D
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#468 - 2012-10-04 21:29:48 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
TheMaster42 wrote:
PvP flag will carry between systems like all the other flags, correct? (This would be a change from the current behavior.)

It sure will! (As will all your flags)


Does this mean that... if player B shoots player A in system 1 and target A jumps into system 2 and gets killed by player C.
Will player B then show up together with player C on player A 's killmail?

Question 2, if player B shoots player A in system 1, and player A jumps to system 2 and logs off, will player A then stay in space in system 2 for a longer duration than the current 1 min?


(Sorry for cutting it into A and B examples)

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934

ihcn
Life. Universe. Everything.
Clockwork Pineapple
#469 - 2012-10-04 21:29:58 UTC
Jarin Arenos wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
If 90% of people who voluntarily confine themselves in highsec quit, and 10% decide to also participate in other more profitable parts of the game, EVE will be better off.

CCP doesn't chain you into being a "highsec player". You do it yourself. In fact, CCP is trying to encourage you to open your eyes and look for other things to do than grind NPCs 23/7.

Because losing 75% of the game's playerbase will let it remain profitable and continue operating. Or was this your clever way of saying you hate the game and it would be "better off" dead?

can i have your stuff when you leave
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#470 - 2012-10-04 21:30:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Claire Raynor wrote:
Sorry?? New Safety system? Or were you trying to be Smart?
No, I'm talking about the new safety system that will be presented in detail in an upcoming dev blog. It's a system where you can pre-set your answers to various conditions and warning windows to ensure that you never do something that flags you in a way that you want (or, at the other end of the spectrum, that you are not bothered by warning popups when you really really need for your guns to fire right this millisecond).

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
I really, really want to know what happens here:

Carebear A in in Corp A
Carebear B is in Corp B.

Corp A and Corp B are at war:
Player A engages Player B legally in highsec.
Player C reps player B.

Since there are no global flags generated for Player B (he's not a criminal, suspect, nor outlaw), then there is no Limited Engagement flag. As such, Player C does NOT receive a suspect flag for Repping player B.
From what we've been told before, wardecs will be treated much the same as LEs, only with more participants. Corpers A and B can freely shoot each other without triggering any global flags, and they can rep each other without issues as well.

If player C comes along and reps a war target in a war he's not a part of himself, he becomes a suspect. Nothing seems to suggest that they've changed this, but yes, a clarification would be nice. So quite the opposite: neutral reps will become very very expensive (not to mention the whole inheriting timers thing, meaning they can't dock up at will either).
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#471 - 2012-10-04 21:30:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
Looking at the charts, and thought maybe the term "incurring sec status penalty" could be made more compact. Call it "penalized action" and give it a flag type A.

You get an A flag by stealing, or doing any action that gives you a C or S flag except assisting others in a LE. This would be shown on the "flags awarded" chart.

Consequences are the sentry guns shoot you and your sec status drops. Its cleared by a session change or grid change. This would be shown on the Consequences chart.

Question: Is there a timer on that as well? At the moment it would appear there is not.

Question: If my status is -10, does doing a crime still incur a sec status penalty? Its not like it can go any lower..... ( I say the answer should be yes, but never hurts to ask).

Also it would seem you need to add an LE (limited engagement) flag to the chart, add the conditions for getting an LE, the consequences to getting an LE, and what clears an LE.

Edit: It would also be nice to have a chart that defined "legal target" in each sec area, and how it effected by my flags. Also it would be nice if the first chart showed what gives the NPC flag. Shooting an NPC, sure. Being shot by one? Assisting one? Shooting an NPC structure?

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#472 - 2012-10-04 21:30:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Udonor wrote:
I have real problems with WARP DISABLE for Criminal flag. Its a sloppy GOD power in an otherwise great SciFI universe.

I know its rooted in reducing CONCORD CPU use but at this point....
WHY does CONCORD even SHOW UP??? Just BLOW ME UP REMOTELY instead of turning my warp off!!!!

Front-end loading of criminal flags should solve a lot of CONCORD goose chase issues. Hell CONCORD should actually stop me before I have a chance to finish blowing up some ships in hi sec.

[...]

Warping is essential to self-defense especially against a potential huge number of opponents.

(1) Without it I cannot even go get more ammo.

(2) Disabling warp makes no sense at all in terms of storyline. Unlimited range scramble weapon? BS not even CONCORD
Some criminals would find ways to disable that. And if not, then same control mechanism should prevent criminal actions in the first place.

(3) A big chase is more exciting. Allows more players involvement.



What exactly are you trying to get more ammo for when you're about to get concorded?

Ignore him. One can't warp with GCC for quite a while now.
That's nothing new. Actually, plenty of people talk about things that aren't new at all,
but for whatever reason don't even know that.

Edit: To add something constructive. He had a point, if players would actually hunt outlaws,
but 90% of those i meet don't. They try to get a lucky shot and then run away. ^_^
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#473 - 2012-10-04 21:31:13 UTC
Lucas Quaan wrote:
Not reading 23 pages, but is the first chart correct in that hitting illegal targets in 0.0 (like there are any others) with smartbomb/ECM burst does not give a pvp flag? And what about being hit by those modules?

Heh, a slight troll by CCP.

Think about it: who exactly is not a legal target in 0.0?
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#474 - 2012-10-04 21:31:25 UTC
Claire Raynor wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
This NPC timer plus the drone killing AI, plus the 20% across the board damage nerf to heavy missiles is just another nail in the coffin for high sec income.
Good thing, then, that the income will be largely untouched. Heavy missiles aren't particularly important to highsec income and the problem of making the “drone-killing AI” not kill drones was solved three years ago.

Claire Raynor wrote:
This will be MASSIVLY exploited by griefers. So I'm in a fleet - we all open fire on someone because they are a legal target. One of the fleet members gets damaged during the fight so I rep them because we are a Typhoon Spider gang. "Assisting someone who is engaged in an LE will cause the assistor to receive a Suspect flag." And bingo - I get shot at by everyone because now I'm suspect flagged - So is every other member of the spider tank - because we all assisted someone engaged in LE?

Or did I get this wrong?
The new safety system will keep you safe.



Sorry?? New Safety system? Or were you trying to be Smart?

No - my question was - attacking a legal target who is Suspect, Criminal or Suspect with a spider tank type setup sounds like it will cause almost every member of the spider tank to themselves become a Suspect?

Also - what if the legal target is a war target and not Suspect, Criminal or Suspect flagged - there will not be an LE - so neutral reppers will just get PvP flagged and not Criminal flagged?


They havent announced the new safety system properly but they have talked about it, its a warning that pops up asking you "Do you want to continue doing this now criminal action?" and these warnings can be turned off in the options menu.
Jarin Arenos
Card Shark Industries
#475 - 2012-10-04 21:32:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarin Arenos
Quote:
can i have your stuff when you leave
You failed 3rd grade reading comprehension, didn't you? I never said I intended to quit over this. I never even said that people were likely to quit. I was calling Abdiel there an [insult redacted] for saying that the game would be better off if it lost 3/4 of its player base.

But I'm not CCP Soundwave, so what do I know?

Asterian XVV
Hightec Constructions
#476 - 2012-10-04 21:33:23 UTC
Almighty Masterplan,

Could the PvP flag be expanded to cover self destruction? Also, will the jump prevention impact passing through a wormhole, or will the jump mechanics for WH space remain untouched.

Thanks
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#477 - 2012-10-04 21:34:07 UTC
Jarin Arenos wrote:
Quote:
can i have your stuff when you leave
You failed 3rd grade reading comprehension, didn't you? I never said I intended to quit over this. I never even said that people were likely to quit. I was calling Abdiel there an [insult redacted] for saying that the game would be better off if it lost 3/4 of its player base.

That's true, but the mission runners simply won't leave ..........
steave435
Perkone
Caldari State
#478 - 2012-10-04 21:34:44 UTC
PinkKnife wrote:
I love the freighter ganking pilots crying that now they can't gank in peace. You do realize the irony here right? You want to to gank someone, but then not have someone interfere in your business while you do it? Welcome to eve, where there are repercussions, gank away but don't expect people to not try and take advantage of the situation and the consequences of your actions.

It's perfectly fine for people to be able to interfere, by f.e. looting the wreck before the gankers do, or suicide ganking the hauler coming to pick up the loot, or simply having corp mates of the target show up and get the right to shoot the looter, as they've always been able to do. Suicide ganking is supposed to be viable though, and with this, at least that form of suicide ganking no longer is. There are still other suicide ganking methods that still are viable, so that may be fine, I simply want to know if that's an intentional nerf or if it's something they would like to keep viable.

I personally have no stake in it, I don't suicide gank myself....Hell, I barely even log in anymore, but I used to gank a few years ago, so I still know how it works.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#479 - 2012-10-04 21:34:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
Jarin Arenos wrote:
Quote:
can i have your stuff when you leave
You failed 3rd grade reading comprehension, didn't you? I never said I intended to quit over this. I never even said that people were likely to quit. I was calling Abdiel there an [insult redacted] for saying that the game would be better off if it lost 3/4 of its player base.

Alright maybe an objective "would be better" is an overstatement. But I would subjectively prefer EVE with more EVE players, even at the cost of losing a massive number of NPC grinders.

(I have a feeling this conversation will just get deleted due to being off-topic though.)
Treya Neverette
HR Liability
Mildy Unprofessional
#480 - 2012-10-04 21:35:49 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Treya Neverette wrote:
There is a couple line items that should be addressed here...

After reading the new Crime Watch bulletin, I was actually pleased with the new changes on the horizon. It is going to open a new dynamic to the game that might intrigue old players into combat in high-sec, and provide a level of balance to new players when they are flying with a team of people learning the ropes of the EVE universe.

Of course not all patches/updates can be perfect the first run through, and with proper discussion and brainstorming we can mitigate some of the most apparent issues in the preface.

In your screenshot spreadsheets, which you said weren't final, I noticed couple items that need to be addressed immediately.

1. "Criminal Flag 15 Minute Timer - Criminal cannot initiate warp." : Warping off grid is a valid defense in combat against an aggressor, good or bad. If they don't have you pointed, you are free to leave grid. Forcing people to stay on grid, with a global warp scram button is something that should be avoided at all cost.

2. "Criminal Flag 15 Minute Timer - Criminal cannot enter a Wormhole" : This to me a common sense issue here. Wormholes are a rift in space, and concord has no control over their entrances. To keep with the spirit of logic in space, I believe this will remove a realism feel to the game.

*Side Thought* - Think about criminal incursions that happen in high sec.
1. A wormhole opens in high-sec.
2. Criminals spill out to wreak havoc.
3. A battle ensues within system between high-sec corps and criminals.
4. High-sec corps push the criminals back to their void in space.

This could be a very cool dynamic, that is severely lacking in the actual incursion patch from months back. It will give high-sec corp scouts a purpose to keep an eye on wormholes in system, and at the same time give the criminals "PvP'ers" an opportunity to impose their will on the unsuspecting. And the best part, it's all driven by player motives. Win Win i think...

Thank you for your time.


1.) The only way you gain a criminal flag is if you shoot a POD in lowsec, illegally shoot a player in highsec, or assist a criminal. A.) Pods can warp, even when criminally flagged, so your pod can get safe. In lowsec, the "cannot warp" limitation doesn't exist... it's a highsec feature only, where you're going to be concordoken anyway... so whats the problem???

B.) If the criminal timer reduced from 15 minutes to say.... 5 minutes: Imagine if you attempt to gank a hulk... and the hulk's buddy jams you and then your concordoken. The act of jamming you creates an LE with the jammer for 15 minutes. So, after 5 minutes, you could then return and legally shoot that jammer. Essentially, if you reduce the C timer, you need to reduce the LE timer to the same length of time or less. Truthfully, I don't particularly see the need to adjust this timer, as its pretty much the same timer people cope with today, and pirating is fine!

2.) You want to create a method to escape concord by entering a WH.... This isn't necessarily a bad thing... but I'm not sure it really adds all that much to the game other than provide you a tool to mess with WH logistics to/from highsec.


I just didnt understand that the new criminal flag in high-sec would be the same as GCC. Thanks for the clarification.