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Dev blog: Introducing the new and improved Crimewatch

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Jarin Arenos
Card Shark Industries
#481 - 2012-10-04 21:36:46 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Jarin Arenos wrote:
Quote:
can i have your stuff when you leave
You failed 3rd grade reading comprehension, didn't you? I never said I intended to quit over this. I never even said that people were likely to quit. I was calling Abdiel there an [insult redacted] for saying that the game would be better off if it lost 3/4 of its player base.

That's true, but the mission runners simply won't leave ..........

My point is that those highsec players that you hate so much fund the continued development of this game. Look at the statistics on users-by-security some time. And even THAT doesn't tell the story, because a huge chunk of null is financed via PLEX from highsec characters.

But I'm not CCP Soundwave, so what do I know?
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#482 - 2012-10-04 21:37:17 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
If me and a corpmate are roaming in low sec and we are both outlaws, is it still possible for people to attack one of us without getting 'aggression' to the corp of the person they are attacking? It's really annoying because a small gang of little ships that cannot survive combat under sentry guns can basically be picked apart by fast lockers and cannot respond at all, with no risk at all to the neutrals who do it. For example if we're in two cruisers and one gets tackled by a condor, all he can do is go back to the gate and jump out. The other cruiser will die if it does anything, basically, and all this is no risk to the neutral guy in the frigate (unless he's really bad).


Could i get a response to this question since its something we run into quite often and its really hard to deal with.

Also i love these changes.. I might just walk down to CCP hq, break in and start hugging people.

That's the penalty you have to live with for being an outlaw. Consequences and all that...

Werent we expecting some changes to sentry gun damage that helps out smaller ships?

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Matt Grav
Wrath of the Pea
#483 - 2012-10-04 21:38:29 UTC
Quote:


I think someone else asked this earlier, but I haven't seen the answer:

If you shoot at someone at a gate in lowsec, warp off grid before he dies (point is held by your cohort), and you warp back on grid, and then proceed to shoot the original target some more, do you :

a) Get another sec status hit, and gain new sentry aggro?
b) Get no further sec hit, sentries ignore you?
c) Get no further sec hit, sentries shoot at you anyway because they witnessed a sec status type action?

Answering my own question with a guess from reading other responses, but the real answer is important since sec status hits are now front-loaded.

I think the answer is C. B would be exploitable and A is a double-whammy on sec status hits.



I'm still looking for the answer to this ^

Also I'm surprised that more people aren't talking about the HiSec pvp pod killing changes Twisted
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#484 - 2012-10-04 21:38:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
Lucas Quaan wrote:
Not reading 23 pages, but is the first chart correct in that hitting illegal targets in 0.0 (like there are any others) with smartbomb/ECM burst does not give a pvp flag? And what about being hit by those modules?

I asked that. Answer: There is no such thing as an illegal target in Null. You are free to shoot anything. Lines #2 and #3 that have entries for shooting illegal targets in Null are a typo, and will be removed.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#485 - 2012-10-04 21:39:19 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
If me and a corpmate are roaming in low sec and we are both outlaws, is it still possible for people to attack one of us without getting 'aggression' to the corp of the person they are attacking? It's really annoying because a small gang of little ships that cannot survive combat under sentry guns can basically be picked apart by fast lockers and cannot respond at all, with no risk at all to the neutrals who do it. For example if we're in two cruisers and one gets tackled by a condor, all he can do is go back to the gate and jump out. The other cruiser will die if it does anything, basically, and all this is no risk to the neutral guy in the frigate (unless he's really bad).


Could i get a response to this question since its something we run into quite often and its really hard to deal with.

Also i love these changes.. I might just walk down to CCP hq, break in and start hugging people.

That's the penalty you have to live with for being an outlaw. Consequences and all that...

Werent we expecting some changes to sentry gun damage that helps out smaller ships?


they were really bad.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#486 - 2012-10-04 21:41:39 UTC
Matt Grav wrote:
I'm still looking for the answer to this ^
One would think that you'd only get one sec hit per engagement, and that an “engagement” is defined as “as long as you have that PvP flag”… but I'm only guessing.
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#487 - 2012-10-04 21:44:34 UTC
Epic changes Big smile

But, wouldn't it be better to shorten the NPC aggro timer somewhat and in exchange make it renewable by player aggression? Make it so that when a player disconnects with NPC aggression he disappears after 5 Minutes, but only if he is not aggressed by players before those 5 minutes are up. People intentionally disconnecting when they are jumped would still die because 5 minutes is plenty of time to scan someone down and point the ship. But it would reduce the grief brought on by genuine disconnects... 15 mintes is a looong time, people will just randomly pass through and see your ship, get back with a scanner and kill it.

And really, the 15 minute timer will only punish people with real disconnects. Everyone else will know that he will die when he logs off, so he will stay on and warp from safespot to safespot until his timer has expired, just like we do now when we have player aggression.

.
Singulis Pacifica
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#488 - 2012-10-04 21:46:07 UTC
Cheers for the work so far CCP, but could you also mention the severity of incurring security penalties? How much rating is lost at each specific case mentioned here?
Matt Grav
Wrath of the Pea
#489 - 2012-10-04 21:46:39 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Matt Grav wrote:
I'm still looking for the answer to this ^
One would think that you'd only get one sec hit per engagement, and that an “engagement” is defined as “as long as you have that PvP flag”… but I'm only guessing.

I'm not so worried about the sec hit, it's more whether or not the gate guns will fire once the returning suspect opens fire on me again.
Jarin Arenos
Card Shark Industries
#490 - 2012-10-04 21:46:58 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Epic changes Big smile

But, wouldn't it be better to shorten the NPC aggro timer somewhat and in exchange make it renewable by player aggression? Make it so that when a player disconnects with NPC aggression he disappears after 5 Minutes, but only if he is not aggressed by players before those 5 minutes are up. People intentionally disconnecting when they are jumped would still die because 5 minutes is plenty of time to scan someone down and point the ship. But it would reduce the grief brought on by genuine disconnects... 15 mintes is a looong time, people will just randomly pass through and see your ship, get back with a scanner and kill it.

And really, the 15 minute timer will only punish people with real disconnects. Everyone else will know that he will die when he logs off, so he will stay on and warp from safespot to safespot until his timer has expired, just like we do now when we have player aggression.

This is more reasonable. It meas less fun runs in fast-but-fragile ships, but wouldn't spell complete doom for non-cap-stable-ubertanks.

But I'm not CCP Soundwave, so what do I know?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#491 - 2012-10-04 21:49:31 UTC
Matt Grav wrote:
I'm not so worried about the sec hit, it's more whether or not the gate guns will fire once the returning suspect opens fire on me again.
Sure, but since one triggers the other, it amounts to much the same thing, so the limitations of one sound like they would affect the other.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#492 - 2012-10-04 21:50:22 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Matt Grav wrote:
I'm still looking for the answer to this ^
One would think that you'd only get one sec hit per engagement, and that an “engagement” is defined as “as long as you have that PvP flag”… but I'm only guessing.


CCP Masterplan wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
Sounds like a great solution, but i got a question.

If I in lowsec attacks a player, who is an illegal target for me, and I destroy his ship I will get Suspect flag and the Sentry guns will shoot me during the combat. But if I warps out and warps back again (while still under the S flag) will they resume attacking me?

No. They'll always shoot Criminals on-sight for as long as the Criminal has the flag, but for other acts they will only shoot you for as long as you stay in their vicinity after whatever action gave you a Suspect flag.


So essentially, you can warp off, warp back, and shed the sentries.... even if the P & W flags are still active on you....

If you don't get hit with a second Sec Status hit, it really sounds like you won't actually re-gain sentry fire....

A couple of thoughts:
1.) If the player shoots back at you, prior to you grid hopping, when you come back you'll have a LE with that player, meaning you can freely engage without sec status hits....

2.) If you grid hop, and you don't have a LE with that player (because they didn't shoot back at you before), then you SHOULD get a second sec status hit... That will solve sentry shedding issues, it will help you lower your sec status, and then the only people truly affected by this are those that chase ships from grid to grid re-aggressing them.
Udonor
Doomheim
#493 - 2012-10-04 21:51:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Udonor
Claire Raynor wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
This NPC timer plus the drone killing AI, plus the 20% across the board damage nerf to heavy missiles is just another nail in the coffin for high sec income.
Good thing, then, that the income will be largely untouched. Heavy missiles aren't particularly important to highsec income and the problem of making the “drone-killing AI” not kill drones was solved three years ago.

Claire Raynor wrote:
This will be MASSIVLY exploited by griefers. So I'm in a fleet - we all open fire on someone because they are a legal target. One of the fleet members gets damaged during the fight so I rep them because we are a Typhoon Spider gang. "Assisting someone who is engaged in an LE will cause the assistor to receive a Suspect flag." And bingo - I get shot at by everyone because now I'm suspect flagged - So is every other member of the spider tank - because we all assisted someone engaged in LE?

Or did I get this wrong?
The new safety system will keep you safe.



Sorry?? New Safety system? I didn't know about that - thanks for clarification

No - my question was - attacking a legal target who is Suspect, Criminal or Suspect with a spider tank type setup sounds like it will cause almost every member of the spider tank to themselves become a Suspect?

Also - what if the legal target is a war target and not Suspect, Criminal or Suspect flagged - there will not be an LE - so neutral reppers will just get PvP flagged and not Criminal flagged?



NO it is pretty clear that you will not get crimewatch flagged for attacking legal targets. You will get LE flagged with respect to the criminal you are attacking...just so he doesn't get penalized for resisting arrest. (Probably so that bounty hunters didn't have it too easy when some one is trying to avoid becoming an outright outlaw.)

Netrual reppers will become PVP flagged under CrimeWatch. But under war dec system they will inherit status as legal wartarget temporarily. Two systems involved for war decs now.
Odin Shadow
ZC Industries
Dark Stripes
#494 - 2012-10-04 21:52:07 UTC
Jarin Arenos wrote:
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Epic changes Big smile

But, wouldn't it be better to shorten the NPC aggro timer somewhat and in exchange make it renewable by player aggression? Make it so that when a player disconnects with NPC aggression he disappears after 5 Minutes, but only if he is not aggressed by players before those 5 minutes are up. People intentionally disconnecting when they are jumped would still die because 5 minutes is plenty of time to scan someone down and point the ship. But it would reduce the grief brought on by genuine disconnects... 15 mintes is a looong time, people will just randomly pass through and see your ship, get back with a scanner and kill it.

And really, the 15 minute timer will only punish people with real disconnects. Everyone else will know that he will die when he logs off, so he will stay on and warp from safespot to safespot until his timer has expired, just like we do now when we have player aggression.

This is more reasonable. It meas less fun runs in fast-but-fragile ships, but wouldn't spell complete doom for non-cap-stable-ubertanks.



or make it so mods do not deactivate after people log off, let them run until the ship vanishes
Koghrun Amman
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#495 - 2012-10-04 21:52:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Koghrun Amman
Not sure if this has already come up.

Scenario:
Player A is in 0.0 with Player B.
Player A shoots at B at a gate. B does not return fire.
Player B has a PVP timer, but no weapon timer, and can jump freely to safety after taking a single salvo.
Player A cannot jump until his weapon timer expires (60 seconds after his weapon counters).


This will change the way small gang combat is done in 0.0 since it disallows aggressors from chasing their targets.

No timers in Null!
Tsukinosuke
Id Est
#496 - 2012-10-04 21:54:17 UTC
Criminal, Suspended and Incurring Sec-status Penalty Flags are enough..



please Do Not make it COMPLICATED..

anti-antagonist "not a friend of enemy of antagonist"
Obiareus
Chosen Path
#497 - 2012-10-04 21:54:38 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
[quote=June Ting]Do flags persist when jumping between systems, or are they system-specific? I know I've had multiple cases under the old system where someone gets PVP-flagged on one side of a gate, gatecrashes, and logoffskies, and disappears from space 1 minute later rather than 15 minutes since they're in a different system.


Yes, flags will follow you wherever you go. Let's just say that trying to fix the issue you talked about under the old system had some exploit issues preventing us from doing it. With the new system, things are much better in this regard.



So say you are in an interdictor and pop a bubble out in null sec to slow down someone pursuing you
You wait the weapons flag time of 60 seconds expires and jump into low sec
if your pursuer hits the bubble in system A whilst you are now in system B, do any additional flags hit you?
I would suppose PVP might, which merely limits your IN SPACE logoff abilities, but seeing as the bubble is illegal
in empire I am concerned about the escalation of flags

also I noticed deployable bubbles were left out of the flagging chart, was this on purpose, IE deployable bubbles do not
cause any flags to be generated?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#498 - 2012-10-04 21:56:09 UTC
Koghrun Amman wrote:
Not sure if this has already come up.

Scenario:
Player A is in 0.0 with Player B.
Player A shoots at B at a gate. B does not return fire.
Player B has a PVP timer, but no weapon timer, and can jump freely to safety after taking a single salvo.
Player A cannot jump until his weapon timer expires (15 minutes after his weapon counters).
The W-timer is only 60 seconds. The scenario you describes in no different than we currently have.
Cassius Longinus
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#499 - 2012-10-04 21:57:58 UTC
Koghrun Amman wrote:

Player A cannot jump until his weapon timer expires (15 minutes after his weapon counters).
This will so radically change the way small gang combat is done in 0.0
No timers in Null!


Weapon timers are 60s, just like now. I don't see a change in null, except that rats now give a logoff timer.

Anyways, I hope the light dictor thing is revisited- there is really no reason to penalize the flying coffin, and small gangs really require a single ship to lock down both sides of a gate from initial warp-off.

The other thing that jumps out at me (and I may have just missed it in the blog), but if Highsec gates aren't going to automatically fire on outlaws, then some interesting roaming opportunities may evolve with a small group of, say, RR-BS moving into highsec and just roaming together to see who flags on them. (presumably, once they've been flagged upon, they can retaliate).
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#500 - 2012-10-04 21:58:12 UTC
Koghrun Amman wrote:
Not sure if this has already come up.

Scenario:
Player A is in 0.0 with Player B.
Player A shoots at B at a gate. B does not return fire.
Player B has a PVP timer, but no weapon timer, and can jump freely to safety after taking a single salvo.
Player A cannot jump until his weapon timer expires (15 minutes after his weapon counters).


This will so radically change the way small gang combat is done in 0.0

No timers in Null!


There are radical changes to nullsec combat, but this is not one of them:
The weapon's timer is 1 minute, not 15 minutes... This is EXACTLY the same as it currently is!!!

The radical changes are:
Inheriting Weapons Timers for Remote Assistance. Meaning logi's can no longer just escape through a gate or dock, but have to stick it out until the end of the 1 minute Weapons timer.

NPC aggression now leaves your ship in space for 15 minutes, which is an enormous amount of time! You can no longer safely log off while PvE'ing to evade roamers, as they might scan you down and gank you.