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Dev blog: Introducing the new and improved Crimewatch

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Sulindra
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#421 - 2012-10-04 20:47:48 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
Expect a fight, just not the one you wanted


Exacty!
Jarin Arenos
Card Shark Industries
#422 - 2012-10-04 20:48:59 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Hmm... so if a ganker attempts but fails to gank a miner, the miner can no longer loot the ganker's wreck? (as in, he would get a global S flag)

Search the devblog for the words "front loaded"

But I'm not CCP Soundwave, so what do I know?
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#423 - 2012-10-04 20:49:02 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Shandir wrote:
Oh - question:

I don't see a way to do it, but under these new rules, is there ANY way to extend/reset another player's timer while they're not present or docked? Or can you only affect your own?

Because unexpected timer-extension is bad.

If you can find a way to do this, then I've missed something. You speak the truth about surprise-timers being bad


In olden-times you used to aggress a wreck or can that the target was owner of to extend the pvp timer.

I think this got fixed last expansion?

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#424 - 2012-10-04 20:49:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Hmm... so if a ganker attempts but fails to gank a miner, the miner can no longer loot the ganker's wreck? (as in, he would get a global S flag)
The miner will get kill rights and the ganker will be criminal-flagged. Either way, he's now a legal target and therefore taking stuff from him is no longer an illegal action. Loot away.
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#425 - 2012-10-04 20:49:36 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:

Also, am I right in reading that if I attack someone in space in low sec and don't pod them, there might not be any sentry guns involved at all, if it doesn't happen at a gate? I might have read wrong, and I'm way too lazy to check other people's posts to see if they answer my question.


This is correct. No more having to sit in a safespot for 15 minutes after shooting someone in a lowsec belt/FW plex.

TAKE ALL MY MONIES

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#426 - 2012-10-04 20:51:21 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
CCP Explorer wrote:
EVE is not a simple game, but at least there will now be charts describing how it behaves! Big smile


1st criticism: NEED MOAR CHARTS Lol

CRIMEWATCH BLOG wrote:

we're making a pretty open-ended sandbox, which gives us developers a lot of confidence ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that you players will find new ways to do old things pretty quickly exploight the living HECK OUTOF ANY SYSTEM WE TRY TO FIX


FIXED Blink
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Bart Starr
Aggressive Structural Steel Expediting Services
#427 - 2012-10-04 20:52:59 UTC
Tippia wrote:
CCP Masterplan wrote:
When you've ejected from your expensive gatecamp ship, what's to stop a conveniently-placed alt-orca scooping it and insta-jumping to highsec, where it will be untouchable?
Good point. Darn.

…unless you want to go the evil route and somehow transfer the flags to the actual ship and then onto anyone who tries to scoop it. P


Not as good as you think.

If you eject from your ship, presumably your ship will be locked.
Which means it cannot be scooped by anyone but the owner. And the Orca Alt is not 'the owner'.

So the answer to Masterplans question is: the fact that your ship is locked by a hostile.
Jarin Arenos
Card Shark Industries
#428 - 2012-10-04 20:54:44 UTC
Come on, somebody has to give a crap about the massive headache that is getting handed to mission runners with the NPC flag's introduction...

But I'm not CCP Soundwave, so what do I know?
Lolmer
Merciless Reckoning
#429 - 2012-10-04 20:55:58 UTC
Borlag Crendraven wrote:
CCP Masterplan wrote:
When you've ejected from your expensive gatecamp ship, what's to stop a conveniently-placed alt-orca scooping it and insta-jumping to highsec, where it will be untouchable?


The already suggested mechanic that would prevent scooping a boat that's being targeted by something. What your current mechanic would result in, would not only be making it much more difficult to ransom someone regardless of what kind of boat they are in, but it would also make things even more inconvenient for us living in wormholes. We have no silly concord protection mechanics, we have no safe zones and that is just how we like it down here. We are fine with losing boats, wouldn't be flying T3's for practically everything we do if we weren't. However making it increasingly more difficult to even try and save our pods, by removing the eject trick will have much more severe consequences. I'd be willing to bet that a huge portion of the userbase suffer from the same problems of having system lag at the time of destruction of their boat, even if mail/notification blinking and notices are turned off. That would essentially take us out of the play for what could be the rest of the day, unless a known space connecting wormhole is available of course.

If it came to that, I wouldn't care that much about the skill point loss either, heck you could even tie it to the ship loss, afterall even now I still get a lossmail for every single Proteus I lose regardless of whether I jump out in time or not. Surely this indicates that even after jumping out of the said boat, I still have (or rather had) ownership of the said boat, which in return could be linked to your SP loss code.


QFT.

I'm perfectly fine with losing SP as consequence for losing the T3 I was flying (even if ejecting). What I'm not okay with is CCP telling me when I can, or cannot, eject from my own ship (for whatever reason; saving pod, because I can, ransom, etc.)
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#430 - 2012-10-04 20:56:39 UTC
Jarin Arenos wrote:
Come on, somebody has to give a crap about the massive headache that is getting handed to mission runners with the NPC flag's introduction...

The only headache that is getting handed to you is if you were using logging off as a means of escape. CCP doesn't want you to do that anymore.
Sulindra
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#431 - 2012-10-04 20:58:29 UTC
Jarin Arenos wrote:
Come on, somebody has to give a crap about the massive headache that is getting handed to mission runners with the NPC flag's introduction...


nope... not really.
Treya Neverette
The Whiskey Rebellion
Mildy Unprofessional
#432 - 2012-10-04 20:59:55 UTC
There is a couple line items that should be addressed here...

After reading the new Crime Watch bulletin, I was actually pleased with the new changes on the horizon. It is going to open a new dynamic to the game that might intrigue old players into combat in high-sec, and provide a level of balance to new players when they are flying with a team of people learning the ropes of the EVE universe.

Of course not all patches/updates can be perfect the first run through, and with proper discussion and brainstorming we can mitigate some of the most apparent issues in the preface.

In your screenshot spreadsheets, which you said weren't final, I noticed couple items that need to be addressed immediately.

1. "Criminal Flag 15 Minute Timer - Criminal cannot initiate warp." : Warping off grid is a valid defense in combat against an aggressor, good or bad. If they don't have you pointed, you are free to leave grid. Forcing people to stay on grid, with a global warp scram button is something that should be avoided at all cost.

2. "Criminal Flag 15 Minute Timer - Criminal cannot enter a Wormhole" : This to me a common sense issue here. Wormholes are a rift in space, and concord has no control over their entrances. To keep with the spirit of logic in space, I believe this will remove a realism feel to the game.

*Side Thought* - Think about criminal incursions that happen in high sec.
1. A wormhole opens in high-sec.
2. Criminals spill out to wreak havoc.
3. A battle ensues within system between high-sec corps and criminals.
4. High-sec corps push the criminals back to their void in space.

This could be a very cool dynamic, that is severely lacking in the actual incursion patch from months back. It will give high-sec corp scouts a purpose to keep an eye on wormholes in system, and at the same time give the criminals "PvP'ers" an opportunity to impose their will on the unsuspecting. And the best part, it's all driven by player motives. Win Win i think...

Thank you for your time.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#433 - 2012-10-04 21:00:15 UTC
Bart Starr wrote:
Not as good as you think.

If you eject from your ship, presumably your ship will be locked.
Which means it cannot be scooped by anyone but the owner. And the Orca Alt is not 'the owner'.

So the answer to Masterplans question is: the fact that your ship is locked by a hostile.
Are you talking about right now or about being a possible solution? I'll admit that I haven't tried it myself, but from what I've seen from various camps, it never seemed like it was a problem right now…

…but if it is, then as mentioned previously, yes, that's the answer.
Arec Bardwin
#434 - 2012-10-04 21:00:30 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Arec Bardwin wrote:
- Pods, are they legal targets if the player is criminal, suspect, LE flagged?
Yes
Interesting Twisted
Jarin Arenos
Card Shark Industries
#435 - 2012-10-04 21:00:36 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Jarin Arenos wrote:
Come on, somebody has to give a crap about the massive headache that is getting handed to mission runners with the NPC flag's introduction...

The only headache that is getting handed to you is if you were using logging off as a means of escape. CCP doesn't want you to do that anymore.

So glad that you're blessed with an internet connection that never dies when you're in the middle of doing something. The rest of us aren't so lucky. 60 seconds was usually plenty to stop people from using it as an "oshit" escape button. 15 minutes is cruel and unusual.

But I'm not CCP Soundwave, so what do I know?
Baljos Arnjak
Dark Praetorian Order
#436 - 2012-10-04 21:02:09 UTC
Dirael Papier wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:
Generally, this looks great.

Just a possibility: What if webbing another player didn't count as weapon activation? The reason being that (just) webbing a slow-aligning ship is as much a favor as anything else. Webbing NPCs would still count as weapon activation as long as they're too stupid to take the hint and warp off.

Well, if there's a way to setup an LE on request such that neither player is suspect flagged (like an option in the right click menu of a character to request an LE) then that could be used to safely web someone else without becoming a suspect.


I know, late to the table for that quote. But that could be an easy way to introduce a new isk sink. CONCORD sanctioned LE's, works kinda like a mini one-ship war dec who's cost is based on ship value, and only granted if the other party also requests one against you. Something fairly unobtrusive like half a percent of ship value or something. Obviously this is more for dueling than for freighter webbing (as freighter webbing is usually done by someone in-corp to get around being concordokkened).

Just an idea Big smile
Odin Shadow
ZC Industries
Dark Stripes
#437 - 2012-10-04 21:02:14 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Jarin Arenos wrote:
Come on, somebody has to give a crap about the massive headache that is getting handed to mission runners with the NPC flag's introduction...

The only headache that is getting handed to you is if you were using logging off as a means of escape. CCP doesn't want you to do that anymore.



ifccp has network issue the same as they have had many times recently or you isp or power goes out. that 1 little scramming frig will hold you as your mods switch off and you ship explodes. all because you cant log into your high sec mission guy through no fault of your own.
steave435
Perkone
Caldari State
#438 - 2012-10-04 21:02:29 UTC
If I understand the system correctly, this would have pretty serious consequences for suicide ganking, especially against larger targets that already require you to have use larger and slower ships to loot them. High sec is very active with constant traffic on most gates (and if a certain gate is an exception, that also means that there won't be any targets to gank there), so if I'm correct in assuming that having your alt hauler scoop up the loot after you kill someone will get that hauler flagged to EVERYONE, it will effectively be impossible to loot since you're almost guaranteed to have that hauler tackled and killed by a random passers by before it can get off the gate. You can try to use frigates or something to allow you to warp out in time, but larger items and courier contracts take too much to fit in them.
That's an especially big problem when it comes to freighter ganking since the only viable ship to use for looting them is an another freighter, a ship that will take ages to get off the gate and has absolutely no defenses, and freighter ganking is something that actually requires quite a bit of coordination to get a suicide ganking fleet large enough to pull it off.

Is that a change that you're comfortable with? It won't kill suicide ganking completely, it will still be possible to do it just to grief the target and for profit if you find someone running a mission with an expensive fit, but it would be a major nerf.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#439 - 2012-10-04 21:03:43 UTC
Treya Neverette wrote:
There is a couple line items that should be addressed here...

After reading the new Crime Watch bulletin, I was actually pleased with the new changes on the horizon. It is going to open a new dynamic to the game that might intrigue old players into combat in high-sec, and provide a level of balance to new players when they are flying with a team of people learning the ropes of the EVE universe.

Of course not all patches/updates can be perfect the first run through, and with proper discussion and brainstorming we can mitigate some of the most apparent issues in the preface.

In your screenshot spreadsheets, which you said weren't final, I noticed couple items that need to be addressed immediately.

1. "Criminal Flag 15 Minute Timer - Criminal cannot initiate warp." : Warping off grid is a valid defense in combat against an aggressor, good or bad. If they don't have you pointed, you are free to leave grid. Forcing people to stay on grid, with a global warp scram button is something that should be avoided at all cost.

2. "Criminal Flag 15 Minute Timer - Criminal cannot enter a Wormhole" : This to me a common sense issue here. Wormholes are a rift in space, and concord has no control over their entrances. To keep with the spirit of logic in space, I believe this will remove a realism feel to the game.

*Side Thought* - Think about criminal incursions that happen in high sec.
1. A wormhole opens in high-sec.
2. Criminals spill out to wreak havoc.
3. A battle ensues within system between high-sec corps and criminals.
4. High-sec corps push the criminals back to their void in space.

This could be a very cool dynamic, that is severely lacking in the actual incursion patch from months back. It will give high-sec corp scouts a purpose to keep an eye on wormholes in system, and at the same time give the criminals "PvP'ers" an opportunity to impose their will on the unsuspecting. And the best part, it's all driven by player motives. Win Win i think...

Thank you for your time.


This only happens in highsec, and the mechanics are the same as they were for years now - simply put, NO way to escape Concord. Keep in mind that C flag in CW2 == GCC in CW1.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#440 - 2012-10-04 21:03:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jarin Arenos wrote:
So glad that you're blessed with an internet connection that never dies when you're in the middle of doing something. The rest of us aren't so lucky. 60 seconds was usually plenty to stop people from using it as an "oshit" escape button. 15 minutes is cruel and unusual.
No. 60 seconds isn't enough, which is why the full 15 minutes were instituted. Hell, for some, not even the 15 minutes were enough.

Now you have the same timer as everyone else. vOv.

Odin Shadow wrote:
ifccp has network issue the same as they have had many times recently or you isp or power goes out. that 1 little scramming frig will hold you as your mods switch off and you ship explodes. all because you cant log into your high sec mission guy through no fault of your own.
If CCP has networks issues, you are eligible for reimbursement. Not that you'll need it since, if CCP has network issues, there won't be anything around to blow up your ship.