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NULL whiners mantra is getting tedious... and CSM lacks HI SEC representation

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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#621 - 2012-09-04 10:09:11 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
So that just means we need to try harder. Enough obviously is not being done if we can not engage these people.

Requiring people to click abstain/vote upon login will not engage the people who strenuously give no fucks.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Frying Doom
#622 - 2012-09-04 10:10:49 UTC
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
Quote:
Those 80% however do care about their game as the sub slump showed after incarna.


Eh no...

The people who cared where bitching out CCP on the forums, on their blogs, they participated in the in game riots and effectively spoke out about it, but they kept their accounts and they continued to play. People who quit, do not give a **** about this game, they simply moved on.


So if something changes that people don't like they should???

For them to be more involved in this game they need to be more aware of it so more educated.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#623 - 2012-09-04 10:11:49 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
So that just means we need to try harder. Enough obviously is not being done if we can not engage these people.

Requiring people to click abstain/vote upon login will not engage the people who strenuously give no fucks.

No but it will to some of the are in the apathy department.

And a more majority council the better.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#624 - 2012-09-04 10:11:51 UTC
Quote:
Exactly and awareness comes from education


Your confusing "education" and "awareness" with giving a crap. People are aware and people are educated, they still don't give a crap.

Again its not an education thing, its a "I don't care what happens" thing. You can't fix that.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#625 - 2012-09-04 10:12:49 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
For them to be more involved in this game they need to be more aware of it so more educated.

It's nigh-on impossible to be more educated about the CSM than people already are.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#626 - 2012-09-04 10:13:32 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
No but it will to some of the are in the apathy department.

If they're in the apathy department, they'll just click whatever they need to do to get past the hurdle of logging in.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Signal11th
#627 - 2012-09-04 10:14:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
Frying Doom wrote:
Signal11th wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Signal11th wrote:

Unforunately numbers really have no relevance, people vote or they don't. Yes if it was only the 5% of top players that could vote then I see your point but everyone has the chance to vote.

Just because the only people who seem to vote are the 0.0 I fail to see why we need to waste and time or effort making sure the people who don't vote are catered for.

A chance to vote, exactly, those people that do not vote should receive further education as this election is part of a democracy and as one of the things that defines a democracy is the education of voters, why they should vote and when they should vote.

The fact that over 80% of the populous does not vote, screams that further education is needed.



Not really it just screams that 80% can't be arsed, like myself, I've only voted in one CSM (the last one) and that was only because I was asked nicely to do it. Otherwise I wouldn't have bothered. Now I don't need anymore education I've got enough already.

Not everyone sees the CSM as worthwhile or relevant (not me personally but alot of people I know), now these guys aren't going to vote for anyone because why vote for something you have no opinion on in the first place.

Just because something is there doesn't make it worthwhile or needed is the thought of more than a few people.

So you think everyone should be asked nicely?

If you only took part because you were asked I feel that means you could do with more education as you surely will not be asked by someone every year.



lol so you're saying voting should be forced (but you mentioned Democracy) and because I decide not to vote on something I don't see as relevant or have no interest in I am therefore slightly less intelligent.....as you're using insults now I take it you feel like you're losing the argument???

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#628 - 2012-09-04 10:15:37 UTC
Where is the evidence that "only 0.0 players vote"?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Frying Doom
#629 - 2012-09-04 10:18:11 UTC
Signal11th wrote:

lol so you're saying voting should be forced (but you mentioned Democracy) and because I decide not to vote on something I don't see as relevant or have no interest in I am therefore slightly less intelligent.....as you're using insults now I take it you feel like you're losing the argument???

No I have never said that but active participation yes. There is a big difference between forcing people to vote and forcing people to be more educated.

No this is a stock standard EvE-O discussion. If you think this is losing you must be new.Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Signal11th
#630 - 2012-09-04 10:20:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
Frying Doom wrote:
Signal11th wrote:

lol so you're saying voting should be forced (but you mentioned Democracy) and because I decide not to vote on something I don't see as relevant or have no interest in I am therefore slightly less intelligent.....as you're using insults now I take it you feel like you're losing the argument???

No I have never said that but active participation yes. There is a big difference between forcing people to vote and forcing people to be more educated.

No this is a stock standard EvE-O discussion. If you think this is losing you must be new.Lol



Sorry about that but due to my educuation I was always told that when people start throwing insults it's to cover the fact that their argument is full of holes.Blink Anyway say take the percentage of 80% first of all you have to find out,

a: how many actually want the CSM
b: how many would even vote no matter what practices were implented.


Then when you have that final number you can work on it. If it's a majority of the 80% then you have a starting point if it's less than half then your argument is dead in the water.

It's starting to sound a bit EU voting system, if you don't like the first result just keep making people vote until you get the result you wanted.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Frying Doom
#631 - 2012-09-04 10:22:57 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Where is the evidence that "only 0.0 players vote"?

I am not sure if this is aimed at me but anyway it cannot be true or are you telling me that 1,561 Null sec voters voted for Issler or that 1,282 Null sec residents were conned by Darius III.

Actually being that 16.63% of the population of EvE voted and that Eve's population is 20.07% Null sec as of the last snapshot. It would mean that if all the voters were Null sec 4% of Null still did not vote.

It is most likely a conglomeration of all sectors but Null is generally the highest turnout but as to exact figures, well no idea.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#632 - 2012-09-04 10:25:00 UTC
From what I can tell at least the nullsec CSM representatives understand highsec mechanics and issues better than at least 90% of people who play EVE exclusively in highsec.
Furthermore they're capable of looking at EVE as a whole and understanding changes to highsec as how it would relate to the bigger picture. A highsec only candidate probably wouldn't have the same understanding of lowsec or nullsec and would probably be too concerned with just the issues (or some perceived issues) of his little corner of space.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Frying Doom
#633 - 2012-09-04 10:25:08 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Signal11th wrote:

lol so you're saying voting should be forced (but you mentioned Democracy) and because I decide not to vote on something I don't see as relevant or have no interest in I am therefore slightly less intelligent.....as you're using insults now I take it you feel like you're losing the argument???

No I have never said that but active participation yes. There is a big difference between forcing people to vote and forcing people to be more educated.

No this is a stock standard EvE-O discussion. If you think this is losing you must be new.Lol



Sorry about that but due to my educuation I was always told that when people start throwing insults it's to cover the fact that their argument is full of holes.Blink

I am not really sure how, an argument which in its essence is "80% of accounts did not vote, they need more education" could be said to have holes. Yes a percentage of them have been educated before, a percentage of them will be apathetic but that does not mean we should be apathetic ourselves.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Signal11th
#634 - 2012-09-04 10:27:19 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Signal11th wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Signal11th wrote:

lol so you're saying voting should be forced (but you mentioned Democracy) and because I decide not to vote on something I don't see as relevant or have no interest in I am therefore slightly less intelligent.....as you're using insults now I take it you feel like you're losing the argument???

No I have never said that but active participation yes. There is a big difference between forcing people to vote and forcing people to be more educated.

No this is a stock standard EvE-O discussion. If you think this is losing you must be new.Lol



Sorry about that but due to my educuation I was always told that when people start throwing insults it's to cover the fact that their argument is full of holes.Blink

I am not really sure how, an argument which in its essence is "80% of accounts did not vote, they need more education" could be said to have holes. Yes a percentage of them have been educated before, a percentage of them will be apathetic but that does not mean we should be apathetic ourselves.



Again this is "These people don't think like I do, therefore we need to change/educate them to think like me"

I'm sure some countries have tried this before....

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Frying Doom
#635 - 2012-09-04 10:29:25 UTC
Signal11th wrote:

Again this is "These people don't think like I do, therefore we need to change/educate them to think like me"

I'm sure some countries have tried this before....

Actually countries still do and not 3rd world ones either.

And it is not these people don't think like me, that would mean I was trying to get them to vote for a particular candidate.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Signal11th
#636 - 2012-09-04 10:33:56 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Signal11th wrote:

Again this is "These people don't think like I do, therefore we need to change/educate them to think like me"

I'm sure some countries have tried this before....

Actually countries still do and not 3rd world ones either.

And it is not these people don't think like me, that would mean I was trying to get them to vote for a particular candidate.



Of course you are, yes you're not trying to get them to vote for a candidate but you are still trying to force/educate them to use the mechanic on which these candidates are elected.
You could spin it the other way round and take the percentage of apathetic voters as a guideline of whether or not the candidates or even the process itself is needed or in fact relevant.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Frying Doom
#637 - 2012-09-04 10:36:07 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
For them to be more involved in this game they need to be more aware of it so more educated.

It's nigh-on impossible to be more educated about the CSM than people already are.

As we have no way of interacting with them to find out other than a few here that definitely need educating, we can not know and as more player interaction is better for the game and the player base we should try harder to engage these people.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#638 - 2012-09-04 10:39:21 UTC
Signal11th wrote:

Sorry about that but due to my educuation I was always told that when people start throwing insults it's to cover the fact that their argument is full of holes.Blink Anyway say take the percentage of 80% first of all you have to find out,

No thats just standard EvE-O forums, if you believe that you will forever think you are winning an argument.

Signal11th wrote:
a: how many actually want the CSM
b: how many would even vote no matter what practices were implented.


Then when you have that final number you can work on it. If it's a majority of the 80% then you have a starting point if it's less than half then your argument is dead in the water.

It's starting to sound a bit EU voting system, if you don't like the first result just keep making people vote until you get the result you wanted.

How many want the CSM, No idea, we have no way of knowing. B) Again no idea that is why an abstain button will at least give us a figure to work on.

no idea/no idea=no idea
No does not work out to a percentage sorry.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#639 - 2012-09-04 10:42:17 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
[quote=Frying Doom][quote=Signal11th]

Of course you are, yes you're not trying to get them to vote for a candidate but you are still trying to force/educate them to use the mechanic on which these candidates are elected.
You could spin it the other way round and take the percentage of apathetic voters as a guideline of whether or not the candidates or even the process itself is needed or in fact relevant.

Again No I am trying to force them to be active in their not caring as well as to actually get those who do not care enough about not caring to vote.

If you can show me a figure that shows the number of apathetic voters in comparison to those that believe the CSM is only for Null sec, or those who do not know what its function is I would be impressed.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Signal11th
#640 - 2012-09-04 10:49:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
Frying Doom wrote:
Signal11th wrote:
[quote=Frying Doom][quote=Signal11th]

Of course you are, yes you're not trying to get them to vote for a candidate but you are still trying to force/educate them to use the mechanic on which these candidates are elected.
You could spin it the other way round and take the percentage of apathetic voters as a guideline of whether or not the candidates or even the process itself is needed or in fact relevant.

Again No I am trying to force them to be active in their not caring as well as to actually get those who do not care enough about not caring to vote.

If you can show me a figure that shows the number of apathetic voters in comparison to those that believe the CSM is only for Null sec, or those who do not know what its function is I would be impressed.



Isn't that for you to do as you're the person who wants to make changes to the current system?

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!