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NULL whiners mantra is getting tedious... and CSM lacks HI SEC representation

First post First post
Author
Jaques Cousteau Gemulus
Doomheim
#21 - 2012-08-31 17:52:56 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


Wait a minute, so it's some how some grand conspiracy by "null sec" (20% of the characters in EVE) against high sec that makes the csm null sec heavy?

It' couldn't possibly be that high sec residents (real ones, not the null sec alts lol) just don't give much of a damn or play enough to care in the 1st place. No, it must be null sec.


Yes....it must.
Anslo
Scope Works
#22 - 2012-08-31 17:53:32 UTC
MIrple wrote:


Second post has to do with nul logistics from Empire to 0.0, not just Empire players.

First player, affects everyone, so I'll concede on that fair enough.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#23 - 2012-08-31 17:53:48 UTC
Anslo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Anslo wrote:
I do agree with his signature though...

EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about...


Why would we value peoples opinions on EVE if they don't care enough to vote?


Because the game isn't all nul sec. An outreach campaign to everyone else in high sec might be worthwhile just to make the CSM a little more balanced. Otherwise, the very function the CSM is supposed to focus on is never executed, as the playerbase is not represented, just the nul-bears.

As far as I'm concerned, this CSM does not represent Eve, it represents selfish interest groups.


You're right, this CSM doesn't represent Eve. It represents the parts of Eve that care.

What do you suggest to reach out to people who join, play for a few months, and quit because it's not their type of game? What about to reach out to people who have 5 alts that they mine with to see their wallet ticking up? To people so busy grinding their ISK and not paying attention to anything that weeks or months after a balance change they are unaware of it? To people who play Eve like it's a single player game? To people who miss the huge flipping banner on the login screen asking them to vote?

Nullsec residents got their picks on the CSM because they cared about their future, interacted with others (their alliance), and someone wanted to make a change. Of course it's selfish -- all members of representative government are expected to be selfish and push their constituency's interests as much as possible.

Hisec stands very little chance of getting more than one or two candidates at the table. It is simply full of too many people who play Eve like any other game, with no dedication, no self-information, no (or very little) player interaction or organization, and no intent to get more involved in the game's life and development than I have in getting involved in Coca Cola's next branding decision. It's use then stop caring.

Whether this is because Eve is too much of a niche game, the unconventional nature of the CSM, reading being hard for people, hisec structure, or whatever else is another issue. However, it is how things are. Hisec will not be represented fairly (by population, at least) in the CSM anytime soon.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#24 - 2012-08-31 17:54:40 UTC
Both deal with FW one deals with I-HuB in FW the other with NPC's in faction war read before making posts.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#25 - 2012-08-31 17:55:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Anslo wrote:
So it isn't representative, I know. My point is that the CSM is supposed to be the voice of the player base, a representative one
…and it is. Just look through the meeting minutes and you'll see that it gets the attention it deserves.

This whole “highsec isn't represented” myth could use a whole lot more propping up and evidence to support itself because the reality of the matter doesn't seem to coincide that well with the supposed lop-sidedness. The whole thing simply rests on the fallacy that highsec issues can only be represented by someone who only lives in highsec, when history has shown that this isn't really the case.
Roime
Shiva Furnace
#26 - 2012-08-31 17:57:58 UTC
Just thought it might be worth mentioning that the current CSM is actually #7, and has representatives from all sec status regions.

Not that anyone outside hisec would really think that these people form homogenic demographics with similar goals.

.

Anslo
Scope Works
#27 - 2012-08-31 17:58:17 UTC
MIrple wrote:
Both deal with FW one deals with I-HuB in FW the other with NPC's in faction war read before making posts.


So, to you, FW=High sec?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#28 - 2012-08-31 18:02:45 UTC
Anslo wrote:


So, to you, FW=High sec?


I once attacked gal high sec in a caracal. I highly recomend it as it was so much fun.
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#29 - 2012-08-31 18:04:25 UTC
Anslo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Anslo wrote:
I do agree with his signature though...

EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about...


Why would we value peoples opinions on EVE if they don't care enough to vote?


Because the game isn't all nul sec. An outreach campaign to everyone else in high sec might be worthwhile just to make the CSM a little more balanced. Otherwise, the very function the CSM is supposed to focus on is never executed, as the playerbase is not represented, just the nul-bears.

As far as I'm concerned, this CSM does not represent Eve, it represents selfish interest groups.



This was what I was quoting FW is not null sec you are correct
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#30 - 2012-08-31 18:04:37 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Anslo wrote:


So, to you, FW=High sec?


I once attacked gal high sec in a caracal. I highly recomend it as it was so much fun.


I hope it was a rocket caracal, it looks 'king awesome when you fire all ze rockets.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#31 - 2012-08-31 18:05:31 UTC
Anslo wrote:


So it isn't representative, I know. My point is that the CSM is supposed to be the voice of the player base, a representative one, but it isn't.


And WHY isn't it? Because ccp did something wrong? Because null sec residents did something wrong?

Or, because high sec people don't give a damn and don't vote.

Quote:

What is it with this attitude? So what if they want to solo? So what if they're casual? And so what if they wanna be in high sec? When it comes down to it, money is money. They're subscription is no better or worse than yours. As such, they DO deserve representation.


No they don't, if they can't be arsed to click a button and vote. They deserve exactly what they are getting (hell, not even that much IMO)

I don't care about people who want to solo or be casual or be in high sec (i'm taking a semi-break from null sec war running missions in high sec this week, real solo and casual like)........

.....So long as they understand that what they are doing basically makes them a second class citizen not experiencing the full game, we have no problem. When you play an MMO like a single player game, why do you expect it to be like a single player game? It's an mmo.

Again, I don't care how someone else plays,l until they come here and ask CCP to change the game to suit them rather than either accepting it as it is or adapting themselves to the game as it is.

My problem with the "solo, casual high sec only, no voting for the CSM" set isn't how they play (play as you like as long as you are within the eula), it's that they somehow expect the same support from ccp and in game as those of us who pay our dues in unprotected space while being social and putting in the game time to get good. The "high sec residents" sense of undeserved entitlement rivals any real world welfare queen in intensity lol.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#32 - 2012-08-31 18:08:02 UTC
MIrple wrote:


This was what I was quoting FW is not null sec you are correct


Yep, and last time I looked, most of the FW pilots parked in highsec at the lowsec entrances. So they skew the HS pilot count, the same as jita alts, freighter alts and mission runner alts of null/lowsec residents.


But we understand... facts, statistics and all that scientific or logical hullabaloo don't mean squat to him.

What really matters is this guy *feels* like he isn't represented fairly. We should respect his feelings.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#33 - 2012-08-31 18:08:28 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:


I hope it was a rocket caracal, it looks 'king awesome when you fire all ze rockets.


We are talking long before rockets were any good.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#34 - 2012-08-31 18:08:45 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Anslo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Anslo wrote:
I do agree with his signature though...

EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about...


Why would we value peoples opinions on EVE if they don't care enough to vote?


Because the game isn't all nul sec. An outreach campaign to everyone else in high sec might be worthwhile just to make the CSM a little more balanced. Otherwise, the very function the CSM is supposed to focus on is never executed, as the playerbase is not represented, just the nul-bears.

As far as I'm concerned, this CSM does not represent Eve, it represents selfish interest groups.


You're right, this CSM doesn't represent Eve. It represents the parts of Eve that care.

What do you suggest to reach out to people who join, play for a few months, and quit because it's not their type of game? What about to reach out to people who have 5 alts that they mine with to see their wallet ticking up? To people so busy grinding their ISK and not paying attention to anything that weeks or months after a balance change they are unaware of it? To people who play Eve like it's a single player game? To people who miss the huge flipping banner on the login screen asking them to vote?

Nullsec residents got their picks on the CSM because they cared about their future, interacted with others (their alliance), and someone wanted to make a change. Of course it's selfish -- all members of representative government are expected to be selfish and push their constituency's interests as much as possible.

Hisec stands very little chance of getting more than one or two candidates at the table. It is simply full of too many people who play Eve like any other game, with no dedication, no self-information, no (or very little) player interaction or organization, and no intent to get more involved in the game's life and development than I have in getting involved in Coca Cola's next branding decision. It's use then stop caring.

Whether this is because Eve is too much of a niche game, the unconventional nature of the CSM, reading being hard for people, hisec structure, or whatever else is another issue. However, it is how things are. Hisec will not be represented fairly (by population, at least) in the CSM anytime soon.


Petrus for CSM 9 through 17!
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#35 - 2012-08-31 18:10:08 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Petrus for CSM 9 through 17!

I think I'd make a bad politician. I can't really tolerate nonsense.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#36 - 2012-08-31 18:10:45 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:


I hope it was a rocket caracal, it looks 'king awesome when you fire all ze rockets.


We are talking long before rockets were any good.


Bugger, they do look good though, I'm having a right giggle doing the SOE epic arc in one.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#37 - 2012-08-31 18:48:52 UTC
I think one of the better analogies I've seen about the CSM is how it is like a student council. I'd futher it to an American commuter college campus where the student councils tend to be populated by Fraternity & soroity members even though they are far outnumbered in enrollment numbers.
An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2012-08-31 18:52:15 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD TYPE40
My sincere apologies, I mistakenly locked the wrong thread, please feel free to continue the discussion Oops - ISD Type40.

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#39 - 2012-08-31 19:57:48 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Tippia wrote:
Anslo wrote:
I do agree with his signature though...
Too bad it's not entirely correct.



Tippia it may not be entiely true but it is EXTREMELY close to it. CSM7 now does have a LO SEC representative ( just in time for FW expansion :) WH's do too. But I think the closest that HI SEC has had is a member of a MERC alliance ( interestingly mercenaries for inferno got a buff in the forms of contracts but it seems that it has fizzled unfortunely and needs work )
An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#40 - 2012-08-31 20:00:40 UTC
ISD TYPE40 wrote:
My sincere apologies, I mistakenly locked the wrong thread, please feel free to continue the discussion Oops - ISD Type40.


As per the rules, you now owe us all a drink at fanfest. CCP Guard gets two.